Maybe this belongs in the emotinal needs page, but I thought I'd get more responses here...<P>I want to be madly, head-over-heels in love with my husband...but I can't imagine that reading a book or talking to a counselor will make that happen for me. I want to be passionate and emotionally connected to him...<P>I try to tell him what I need, but since he's not very emotional himself he doesn't understand how important it is to me.<BR>He'll tell me how pretty or sexy I am, but it's usually between commercials and it really doesn't seem that sincere to me. I know he means well...<P>What scares me most is that I'm young and have only been married for 2 years...I feel that I should still be in that honeymoon stage and that ended over a year ago.<P>How do I learn to accept this lack of emotion in my husband and what is considered a normal amount of passion in a marriage?

Holly, is there really an answer to that question? "Normal" passion? I don't even know what the word "normal" means anymore... <P>Probably the answer is when both parties are equally satisfied by the amount that both give and get, then it's the normal amount for that couple.<P>I'm not sure I understand why your husband is so blase about your needs. Why is he so idle? Isn't he afraid that you'll up and leave him? Or have another affair? Or go back to the OM? You keep saying that he is satisfied where things are... OK, that just means that you don't have to do much to please him. But your needs are still important too! The guy has to get his butt off the couch if he truly wants to stay married to you.<P>--airheart

When he found out about the affair (I told him) he really had no emotion at all. He actually sat there playing solitare on the computer and told me if I wanted to leave than leave. <P>The only thing he did do was take my credit card away (not fair, since I make half the money) and I had to borrow money from my sister to pay for a hotel.<P>He still says if I'm not happy then I should leave, that he could live without me. He says this in a nice tone...but basically thinks that he does all he can do to make me happy. I'll ask him if he would even care if I left and he says sure I'd be unhappy, but I'd get over it. <P>He hasn't even shed a tear over the affair. He tends to have an aloof attitude that nothing bothers him...as long as he has his 401K and his stocks he'll be happy.<P>I'm pretty sure if I walked out the door tomorrow he wouldn't ask me to stay...he might be hurt, but wouldn't dare tell me.<P>I want him to tell me he loves me and needs me and can't live without me!<p>[This message has been edited by Holly (edited August 26, 1999).]

Holly, I think you ask an honest question, but I think the answer is harder to find. My H and I didn't have a very passionate relationship....always things keeping us apart. I needed and wanted things he was not giving me and he needed and wanted things from me. We were caught in this huge circle, I was waiting for him and he was waiting for me, but he skidded out of control and got off of the race track. So we slowly put things back together. Who would have thought after years of no passion we would be where we are today. We constantly tell each other that we are so lucky we found it, that there are lots of people who never do. I guess my point is, is that it is possible. I know your H doesn't seem to want to give the energy to it, but he needs to understand you can not live the rest of your life empty. I know you don't want to hear this but counseling did help us. We feel very fortunate about that, but it is possible....I promise.

Holly -- how on earth can a person be happy when presented with an attitude like that?!? I remember you saying that stuff before, but for some reason, I thought your hubby changed his tune a little lately. I thought he at least wanted to save the marriage.<P>What happened the first time you left? How long were you gone? What was his reaction? Did you go back because he asked you? I'm really at a loss as to how you should proceed. If this is the way he really feels, then if it was me I'd leave (not saying YOU should do that, but that's probably what I'd do if presented with the same non-caring attitude).<P>Anyone else have words of wisdom for Holly? Like maybe K?? K's got the MarriageBuilders methods down pat. Maybe there's something in there that'll help your husband realize what he really wants...<P>--airheart

Holly-<P>It's me again. I sent a few responses to another of your questions. Yours are some that have kept me thinking.<P>I am not sure if what I am about to say will come out right or not so I hope I make my point at least clear. I am not trying to bad mouth your H or talk you into giving up but.................. There is something big time wrong with your H. My guess ( and I sure hope I am right) is that he is refusing to allow himself to feel any pain-that is why he has the lack of so many emotions and actions. Somehow this man needs to know how much you love him-but that you need more out of the marriage. I know you have done a lot so far-is there anything else you can do to snap him out of it? I feel real bad for you-but if he can't even look you in the eyes and talk to you heart to heart then you don't need him any more than he needs you. There is more to marriage than that!!<BR>Plese keep us informed of how you are doing. I know that many of us here are sure hoping this all works out for you.<P>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{HOLLY}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

holly, <P>if my husband weren't here so much, I'd swear we were married to the same man. Same reaction to my affair and all (only he worked out instead of playing on the computer). what will get through to these guys? airheart is right, it isn't normal.

I think Airheart hit it on the money - what is "normal." My husband and I definitely had passion before marriage and during the nine years of marriage it has come and gone. More gone than not. My H will argue that he fell out of love. Well that may be, but if he had not worked so much and been so stressed and I had not supported that..... then we would be in a much different place. <P>I think after that get to know one another stage (everything is exciting) then it becomes a comfortable love that includes a mature passion - does that make sense? <P>I know it is not fair, but when we have a need that is not important then we are horrible at meeting that need until given lots of hints and examples.<P>Get that TV off!!! Find common interests - do something - get away from the mindsucking TV!<P><P>------------------<BR>H

Holly,<P>I can't answer what is considered "normal" passion in a marriage, but I do agree with the others who've said your H may be in "self-protection" mode. He may be subconsciously thinking that if he keeps you at an arms length, then he will avoid being hurt. What he needs to understand is, this behavior could backfire in the biggest way and end up pushing you even farther away from him. I read you say that if OM wanted you, you would leave your H and go to him. Does your H really understand this? Have you two been to counseling? Is it an option?<P>Holly, just curious, how old are you and your H? I was surprised to read that you'd only been married for 2 years. I would have to say that this doesn't sound too "normal" (hate that word) for a newly married couple. How long has it been this way?<P>Keep your chin up. You're doing the right thing by recommitting to your marriage. Now it's your H's turn to do his part.<P>------------------<BR>Love is meant to heal. Love is meant to renew. Love is meant to oust all fear. Love is meant to harmonize differences. Love is meant to bring us closer to God.

Passion. I remember what it was like.<P>After our separation a little over 3 years ago, I went to the airport to pick my husband up. I hadn't seen him for 5 months, but we talked every night. <P>That night he kissed me, and the passion was gone. It was all gone. <P>That magic hasn't returned. Sure, we are committed, and I love him dearly, and I'm sure he loves me too. <P>But something was stolen from our relationship during that 5 months, and all I have are memories. I am afraid the passion was polluted, and it will never be the same.<P>You guys have me about in tears over this thread.

Passion, yes I remember that too! In my thread, I'm calling it connection.<P>Before this little side trip, in my marriage I enjoyed a connection......maybe just in my head, but even though my H has never been demonstrative and actually hadn't told me he loved me in about 10 or 12 years (sound nuts but true!) we (or maybe I) had a connection.....when he walked into a room I got that "feeling". I felt the ties....I felt passion. Our intimate relationship was good. I mean, hell I LOVE this man, he may not say he loves me, but I KNEW he did, and I HAD passion.<P>I've lost that, and heck looking back maybe it was all in my mind! I mean this man has recently taken to telling me he loves me, hugging me and cuddling me, but that feeling hasn't returned. I used to think, THIS IS MY MAN! Now I cannot get past his relationship with OW. I know longer feel that THIS IS MY MAN feeling......<P>So sad! Will the passion return? Will the connection come back.....Only God knows and he ain't telling!

Hi Once Happy<P>For me, passion is something physical - you know, those butterfly's in your stomach - aroused without working at it - a simple touch that turns you on......<P>That is missing. I think it won't come back. I've told my husband that I miss that, and need that. His response was basically oh well, not my problem... I haven't brought it up in many many many months, because I thought it was a lovebuster. <P>Connection - is another thing - to me that is emotional. It's not natural anymore, either - but it is something re-created and lasting - I talked about that on your thread.<P>I can control the emotional, I can control my behavior. But this "Physical" passion - hmmmmm..... Is this the test of the depth of the wounds?

TNT<P>I agree.....but for me it seems like when I lost the emotional connection, passion went along with it! Buterflies in my stomach, yep that's how it used to feel when I looked at him......I think, at least for me, I cannot regain that feeling until the connection has been restablished!

Once happy <P>I wonder if some of those that are farther along in recovery can tell us if that passion will return. <P>This has opened a can of worms for me. I am usually always hopeful, but for some reason on this issue - "passion" - I'm at a standstill.<P>

i too have heard and read that the passion we talk about here does settle into a deeper yet less exciting kind of love. on the other hand, i've heard people say that they still tingle whenever they see their spouse. i know of one male couple, they're in their 60s, say that they still get excited when one sees the other. a man i know, he's about 50, told me he still gets excited whenever he sees his wife and they've been married a very long time. i wonder if his wife feels the same way. knowing this makes me feel i'm missing something. i've always known i wasn't satisfied, that something was missing but tried to assign those feelings to unrealistic expectations. i guess that means i thought i was wrong to feel as i do, but can how one feel be wrong? should i just accept feeling frustrated? should i just learn to be happy with what i've got. it could be worse but that's hardly counsalation. i know when i was having my affair, i didn't feel this kind of frustration, until towards the end when i began to see that it wasn't meant to be. in my minds eye, i see myself as a good and desent person. so, when i think of how i'm drawn to other woman i must be a common womanizer. but that doesn't fit with my being a good person. it's very confusing. i wish i were happy with my w, that i had the passion we talk about and i would then not be interested in other woman and be frustrated.

Wow, lot's of responses...<BR>I'll try to answer your questions.<P>Gladimadeit--<BR>Maybe I will have to try conseling to convince my H that my needs are legitimate!<P>Airheart--<BR>My H has changed his tune a little...but I have to say it's me pulling his emotions out of him. I have to ask him if he loves me, needs me, etc.<BR>The first and only time I left was only for a couple of days...he never called to ask me to come back, never said he wanted me back, never seemed to care I was gone and thinking about leaving him for another man. I came back on my own...he didn't want to discuss anything. He just said let me know what your decision is.<P>Heatache--<BR>Sometimes I think the only way I can snap him out of it is to actually move out. I asked him last night what he'd do if I left him...he basically said I can't change your mind, I can't make you fall in love with me. He doesn't realize that he can...I fell in love with him at one point in my life because he tried.<P>New Woman--<BR>I think my H does realize that if the OM wanted me I would leave, but he says if I love someone else there's nothing he could do to change that. We went to couseling a couple of times...it just lead in to conversations about money, nothing really deep. I probably didn't try my hardest during those session...I didn't feel like breaking down, because at that point all I wanted was the OM. I'm 27 and my H is 34. I've been feeling this way for about a year...daydreaming about other men, etc.<P>Sounds like many of you are in the same boat. I bought some books on how to restore passion, etc. and have asked my H to read them...he doesn't. How can I convince him I'm serious? How can I make this issue important to him? Sure, he can act like he cares...but deep down he's more concerned about on-line gambling, video games, and his stocks. I realize he should have his interests, but sometimes it just seems so unimportant to me.

Wow. Sounds like a conflict avoider. Unfortunately he won't know what he HAD until you're gone.<P>I admire your fight ... really I do. If my H had been like that I'm not sure I would have stayed at all. I don't know though. I felt that God wanted me there. Once I said, "Okay God .... time to work a miracle. I turn it all over to you." He began to work in our marriage like you wouldn't believe.<P>As for passion .... it's there. It's not 24/7, and it's not the same as the OM. But it won't be. Every relationship (sinful or not) is different, has different levels of feelings and emotions. I have recognized that and put the affair behind me. Yes, I learned from it too ....<P>I don't have any suggestions for having the passion return. It will be difficult with your H being so passive.<P>What are your "long-term" plans? Are you planning to stay no matter what? Or are you giving this a year to get better, make progress, etc. and then you'll re-evaluate?<P>(Your H would be singing a different tune about you leaving when he realizes that you get HALF of his precious 401K and stocks .... LOL)<BR>

Hi Holly<P>Is it possible that your H does not want to be married anymore. Maybe he is also having an affair or is planning to have an affair to get back at you.<P>Could it also be that he just does not want to be the one who ended the marriage, he may want you to make the divorce decision.<P>If the above is not happening then he is bottling all his anger and emotions. This will be very hard for you to communicate with him and therefore it will be impossible to feel passion for him.<P>You need to start by cracking his armour and get his emotions out or whatever it is that is stopping him from feeling passion for you.<P>Good Luck<BR>

Maya--<BR>I don't really have any long term plans. I guess I'll wait it out for a year and if I'm still feeling this way I'll try and move on.<BR>The problem is he gives me everything else I need except passion. I have to decide what's more important to me. My guess right now is passion.<P>toronto_m_29--<BR>I know this sounds extremely naive, but I don't think my H would ever have an affair...we've actually spoken about this. I know he's a hard worker, has nobody in the office to have an affair with, comes home right after work, etc. He's very goal oriented and doesn't have "time" for someone else in his life. He has what he wants...nice house...nice job...nice wife...plans for children.<P>I've asked him if he wants to be married...he says yes. I'm pretty sure he doesn't want a divorce.

Holly -- my wife has read your thread and she thinks that your husband is in extreme protective mode. He puts this big shell around him and his feelings so he won't be hurt. Probably been doing that his whole life. Not very condusive to becoming passionate, is it? I hope you figure out how to break that shell, cuz maybe that's your key.<P>To trustntruth and OnceHappy -- The way I think about passion is the way you BOTH describe it. It's emotional AND it's physical. To be turned on sexually and also to have that connection. To get the butterflies/weak knees, and to think "THIS IS MY PERSON!"<P>As I've told my wife, I've never really had those feelings with her. I've done a real good acting job for a long time. Well, I don't want to *act* anymore!<P>--airheart