Hey LisaM...just wanted to let you know you made me laugh, and I'm sad to see you leave. I posted on the post about an hour ago(page 2), and I really do connect with you on how you feel. Your a survivor. You have energy and strength, and you will get thru this. <P>I know it really sucks right now. I know all those fears and self worthless feelings that overwhelm you. I know you stare at your self in the mirror and look very, very critically at yourself, and cry. I know when your having sex you wonder if your flaws are showing, and will "he" notice. I know that you feel like "used goods". Its a very sad, and lonley place to be. Your a special, passionate, vibrant woman...funny thing is, I have never seen you or have the faintest idea who you are, but I know it to be true. <P>I just wanted to let you know that my prayers are with you and that you are not alone. "To thyne ownself be true"... friends, Caron<BR>

One more comment here: my mother had breast cancer. She had a breast removed. God forbid that my father would insist on reconstruction for his needs. <P>It's shallow beyond belief to expect your spouse to have plastic surgery for your selfish needs. That is NOT an emotional need - it is a selfish need. I totally disagree with Harley on this one... or maybe just see it differently... don't marry someone if they aren't your "type"... maybe that's the answer.

Alright, I was holding off on this topic, but, here goes. I hope she never sees this.<P>I love and married the person known as Val. She is of body, spirit and mind. I love them all.<P>Val was born with a congenital heart defect known as tetrology of fallot. It is essentialy a hole in the heart, an aneurysm on the aortic arch and a not fully developed septum. She almost died the first week of life.<P>She has had to undergo three open heart surgeries to make it to 29 years of age and will probably need another to replace the oversown aneurysm. We have made yearly trips to Philadelphia for physicals and check ups. She can not have children because of the risk of her dying on the table.<P>She has a large "zipper" down the front of her chest. Two of her ribs are not even with the sternum as they stick out. Many scars from the chest tubes and indwelling catheters. Her L breast is smaller because of the incision at age 6.<P>She would not make it into the pages of Playboy because she is not the perfect woman by the majority of male standards. Not my standards.<P>But, in my book, I don't even see the scars as I love the woman as a whole. I have a big nose. She doesn't comment on that.<P>Beauty is in the eye of the beholder! <P>Tim Wheres the damned Nyquil?

Geez, and I thought the need for sexual fulfillment generated the most passionate debate! <P>DC: Principle of Spousal Capitulation? Oh, come on. That's the antithesis of POJA, not the embodiment of it. K states it better than me, but following POJA, as defined by the much-maligned Dr. Harley, would lead to no action at all, if an enthusiastic agreement could not be reached by both spouses. Obviously, if a partner cannot abide reconstructive surgery (and there's a potfull of reasons not to) then she (or he, for that matter) could never enthusiastically agree to it.<P>But simply dismissing a partner's expressed desire as juvenile, shallow, etc. will NEVER lead to a mutually agreeable -- and dare I say mutually beneficial -- alternative.

Ok - I said I was leaving but had a crappy night of soul searching on whether or not I SHOULD be here or rather should feel comfortable to be here and in the spirit of POJA, I will seek your opinions in a new post <BR>- "Soon to be released, coming to a MB Forum near you" <P>I think it's time to put this particular post to bed - I hope that in bringing it to the top it is not simply a case of fanning any flames. Before we put it to rest, I wish to clarify (for PROMISED FOREVER, K & MUDDER) that my intentions are NOT for entertainment and the ISSUE is not and has never been BIG KAHOONAS VS. SMALL but rather meeting a strong EN when not possible and to get some feedback on the issue (by virtue of the fact that this has happened, I feel it safe to say that we -myself and those who have contributed - are not looking at this as an "entertaining" issue. By way of the various opinions, I have come to a more solid conclusion that all things CANNOT simply be negociated. Yes, K, we can seek clarity in a non-threatening manner and do our BEST within our comfort, but at the end of the day, sometimes we have to agree that we disagree and do the best we can (if we can) within our situation.<P>D&C: R-E-S-P-E-C-T - you hit it on the head. In time, I hope to feel that I am not a pair of breasts but a PERSON - in part, that is why I am here. I think that, like everything else, we all need to look at the MB way of thinking and apply what we learn to our individual situations. They are not written in stone and there has got to be a focus on the POJA, HOWEVER not at the cost of "self".<P>New-Beginning: Your mother's situation has crossed my mind in the "what if" department. Again, reinforces desire to be accepted as I am/feel secure, and all the while try to respect and meet his right to personal preferences - my confusion lies in the crossing lines of X & Y! My heart and thoughts go out to your mother - I hope that she feels in peace.<P>NEEN: Right on the nose. Missed in this whole discussion is how my kids would perceive an obvious physical change. We learn what we live - I do not ever want my D or my S to believe that their worth lies in what the Good Lord provided them but rather who they and the morals and beliefs they hold true to. P.S. Thinking about what you suggested...he might find a surprise under his pillow and it's not clean p.j.'s....just kidding but maybe someday when we can laugh about this a little more easily!<P>KAM6318: Once upon a time, I was very comfortable doing what you suggest to difuse the issue (which actually wasn't an issue then) and would take it to the boob state "Holy Hooters - hey James, did you see those ones?" Because of circumstances (read behaviors and indescretions on his part), my desire and feeling of security in doing so changed drastically.<P>ESSYBOO: Yes, you have it! 1. Yes, has said "your boobs could be bigger" and "I wouldn't blame you if you wanted surgery to try and get back the body you once had" .....I hadn't asked him his feelings on this, they were just a little "share" in how he was feeling. 2. Yes, we have done EN and he has acknowledged that most of our problems have risen out of his "immaturities" (his word) and the snowball effect they had on my reations/his way of dealing with it all.<BR>P.S. Where can I get those little dots you mention?!<P>Caron: Now that I have all that off my chest (hey, maybe that's my problem, I vent alot and every time I get stuff off my chest.......boooooooo!). I agree with what you say 10000000% You and I are of the same vintage (I am 32 also) and we have shared many of the same feelings and letdowns in our <BR>relationships. It is refreshing to find kindered souls and though I wish everyone here had NO PAIN and NO REASON to be here, I am all the while greatful to have the eyes, ears, minds, bodies and souls. Thank you for your kind sentiments - talk about pressure - don't like to let down a "friend" - will try to keep you laughing! P.S. How are your leopard's spots doing these days while he is away? How are you doing with him away? Well I hope.<P>Cheers All!<BR>