Talked to Steve today...the man can MOTIVATE you!<P>He reminded me of a couple things:<P>* Think of doing PlanA like being a farmer who toils and labors in the field to plant seeds. He works his tail off and comes in and looks out over the field and what does he see - NOTHING. But, what has he accomplished - PLENTY!!!! Plan A is planting seeds that will grow into something LATER.[Very good analogy, Steve!]<BR> <BR>* For all the efforts you put into PlanA, you can unravel it all by getting "tired" and making mistakes. Even a few mistakes on the tail end of a fantastic PlanA can be detrimental. When you start feeling "tired" you really need to go to PlanB. Because Plan A is to show your S that you have changed and improved, when you make mistakes, you show your S the improvement was only temporary and not sustainable.<P>Steve's recommendations to me:<P>* Call my H and ask him to meet me to talk when he gets back to town.<P>* Ask H directly about sessions with Steve or the mediated counseling sessions. H has never said "yes" or "no" about these - and Steve said he needs to be asked directly, as he will continue to avoid this.<P>* If he says no to both above, force the issue - tell H this situation cannot continue because it is killing off the love I have for him (true) and I don't want a divorce (true)...so what are we going to do? Because I believe my H will take PlanB as retaliatory on my part, I would hope that he and I could come to an agreement to do planB (POJA). Steve suggested this - do a "verbal" thing instead of just handing him a letter, as I believe my H will take this the wrong way - not see this as a loving gesture.<P>So.....I called H on his cell phone and he is in Boston on business. I asked him if we could get together to talk. Says sure. I asked him when would be convenient after he got back to town- he said next Wed. night. I said, "Let's use those steakhouse gift certificates I got for Christmas and go to dinner." He says, "That would be fine." I asked him if he would pick me up and bring me home like a real "date" (I used the word DATE, too.) He said "Absolutely." I made the reservations for 7Pm - this is a swank place - Ruth's Chris Steakhouse....I gotta go find a killer dress!!!<P>So, I wrangled a second date ,<BR>but....I had to ask him <sigh><P>He seemed happy to talk to me and we talked about 20 minutes. No mention of us, our relationship, OW - no nasties at all!<P>I didn't say "I love you" at the end (neither did he), 'cause I didn't want him to feel pressure - I was in PlanMedic (friendly) mode.<P>Now, I have a whole week to pray and worry....!<P>Please send prayers....<P>Desiree<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

Desiree,<P>Steve sure can keep you on track.<P>Ruths Chris huh...<P>Killer dress...<P>She kicks butt...<P>She can fix stuff...<P>She can cook...<P>She can handle firearms...<P>She has great taste in resteraunts...<P>And can dress to kill...<P>How can he resist?<P>Oh I forgot...She rides a motorcycle...<P>Yes, how can he resist?<P>It is real hard to see if plan-a is haveing ant effect. In fact it is absolutely frustrateing.<P>I HATE AOL...It JUst Aked If I Wanted To Stay On-Line... <P>Sorry I didn't mean to digress that badly.<P>I have to have faith that it is a slow erosion process. I liked the farmer analogy.<BR>It dove tails w/the shoe lace analogy.<P>How does one keep their expectations low, when it seems so close to coming together. I wish I knew what to tell you. Maybe just get the point across that he really did trade down, show him what he has missed out on. I'm sure he already knows.<P>It really stinks that we have to do all the work. I believe we will reap a very prophitable crop...<P>I can see what Steve means about the verbal plan-b. Do you say what you would write or sugar coat it?<P>Any how you'll do great no matter what happens. I pray he makes the turn towards home.<P><BR>Bill<P>------------------<BR>BB<BR>

Des,<P>WOW. You have great sessions.<P>I'm w/ Bill- how can he resist? Congrats on snagging another date.<P>I know this is hard, but like Steve said, one day you WILL see the affects of all your hard work.<P>I'm praying for you, HARD! I also thinks it was a good move not to say I love you. I think you are right about the pressure that is may put on him.<P>Keep us posted.<P>Cheryl

Hey, Desiree - I've been hanging on, waiting up for this one!!<P>Hey, doesn't matter who asked - he ACCEPTED!!<P>He could be a very lucky man once he disengages his head, ya know??<P>Hang in there, there's always a harvest!!<P>Luv Ya!<P>Lori

Hey Des,<P>You go girl! Baby steps. The farmer story oddly makes sense to me. How about that red strapless gown?<P><BR>Hey Bill,<P>You say that it stinks that we have to do all the work.<P>I don't know about you guys, but, I WAS to blame for the destruction of the marriage. It was years of abuse and neglect on my part. Now it's up to me to make it right.<P>It just took me a while to get my head on straight again.<P> <P>------------------<BR>"It's not over till we say it's over! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? H*ll no!" Blutto...Animal House 1984<P>Wishing us all the Best.<P>Medic<P>

Medic,<P>I see your point. I have owned all of my part in the destruction of my marriage.<P>I am so self-centered I don't exactly know how self-centered I am.<P>I am changeing everyday.<P>B<P>------------------<BR>BB<BR>

<B>Bill,</B><P>So what do you REALLY think about AOL??? I saw your other post! <P>How can he resist? Heck if I know...seems to have been doing a pretty good job so far....AUUGH!<P>Bill, you know I struggle with the keeping expectations low. How can any human put a whole lot of effort , energy and focus into anything without expecting some "return" (and return of my H is what I am expecting!)? <P>I think you just get to the point where you begin to get over the obsessions about all this. This has been slow coming for me. I don't obesess over "knowing" and finding out the details, anymore. Don't really need or want to know. I have learned that right now my H isn't very reliable for a whole lot - he's proven that over and over - so in a way that helps to minimize expectations. Also, if you get disappointed enough times, you can learn to expect less - Pavlov's dog conditioning?<P>I think at some point, the backing off takes the pressure off me. I feel better about things - or at least as good as any of us can feel under this type of duress. There is a big positive <P><BR>My hope is not to get to the Planb talk - that he will agree to call Steve or to do the mediated sessions. If he will agree to either of these, we will not have the planb talk.<P>If, however, we get to the planB talk, I tell him everything I wrote in the letter - how sorry I am about the EA, how I am working through counseling to try to address the only two negative things he has ever said about me, how much I feel I have made progress in those two areas (he has already commented and noticed) and am commited to making our marriage the number one focus of my life - over job and outside hobbies. I have already cut back number of hrs at work, even though I assumed responsibility for another division 1/1. I quit karate because of the number of hrs needed to train daily at the 2nd Dan level. These were the major time-drainers that left little time for me to focus on my H and our relationship. Other changes, too. I am COMMITTED to this and he needs to be reminded of that.<P>Then I get to the part about how much his continued affair is hurting me and is killing off my love for him. I also tell him how hopeful I am that we can be a marriage success story. But, what can we do since we don't want a divorce and the present situation is killing me???? {His turn to answer now....}<P>Would love the answer to be lets try. Hope the answer isn't I want a divorce. Maybe we can jopintly agree to do Planb. Will just have to see how this unfolds, Bill.<P>Thanks for the prayers and am still praying that you, Robin and Abbey will be reuinted very, very soon!<P>Desiree<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

Desiree,<P>All kidding aside, you pretty much summed this whole miserable experience up in you reply.<P>Right now the only expectation I have is R will cintinue to do what she is doing as long as she can hide.<P>We made a date about a month ago to see the new James Bond. Guess what I still haven't seen it.<P>I'm starting a bunch of new hobbies.<BR>Number one is Abbey, I have to learn how to be a spectacular dad. Right now I'm only a good one.<P>I'll stay in plan-a until I have laid the proper foundation for b or she get over her cranial-rectitis disorder...<P>Bill<P>------------------<BR>BB<BR>

<B>ceecee,</B><P>I ride the ups and downs with all this - get hopeful, feel slapped down and on and on. Steve is worth the money I spend, because he helps me to keep focus and to see things I can't see because my emotions are too highly charged. I hope this posting helps somebody else, too. <B>K</B> is out there in cyber-land nodding his wise old head!!!<P>I saw your thread - I am the optimistic type, so naturally I am hopeful about this!!! If your H was concerned as one would be for a friend, ask yourself this - would you call a friend to let them know you had arrived OK on a business trip??? I wouldn't unless there was something unusual like a bomb scare or something. You know, Cheryl, if you don't believe you can have a successful marriage with your H, how could you possibly expect him to believe it?? Keep the faith, friend!<P><B>Lori,</B><P>Thanks for the encouragement! He sounded a little like you - have you been counseling Steve???? HAHAHA!<P>So, what did you decide to do about the letter????<P><B>Medic,</B><P>I've got the red dress and it is a doozy...but maybe I ought to go for a new one. But then again, maybe I ought to NOT look like I am expecting anything???? I have a week to think about this....might need to go middle of the road so I don't scare him off!! HAHA!!!<P>So when are you gonna deliver your letter??<P>Desiree<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

My Dearest Concience,<P>In your infinate wisdom I have decided to sell my new computor to my cousin $500.00<P>This is more than the exercise equipment is going to cost.<P>I will use the money to buy myself a new DVD player...just kidding...lol<P>I have an cellular phone bill of R's to pay.$775.00 Do you belive that... I about **** myself when I opened the envelope. Needless to say she has lost that privlege.<P>Thank You for trying to keep me strait.<P>Bill<P>Do you have the Red pumps to go with that dress?<P>------------------<BR>BB<BR>

Desiree ... email me! I surely can identify with where you are - and with the idea of not expecting any return on our hard work right now!<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR>I believe in miracles...<P><BR>

RMA,<P>Sorry I'm so late here. Had to be away from the board. I am so happy that you finangled a date or two. Find that killer dress and knock his socks off! I will pray that everything goes as you want it to. You are such a wonderful person who deserve to be happy and have what she wants. Hang in there and as some say, YOU GO GIRL!

Hey Desiree,<P>I'm late too... sorry.<P>I'm praying and it sounds good <P>Hugs, Sheryl

Ruth's Chris, eh? Hope you are not into very spicy steaks or your stomach could start making funny noises after dinner & that IS NOT romantic (just kidding).<P>Way to go, Desiree!!<P>Alex<P>------------------<BR>Live and learn<BR>

Hi Desiree,<P>First of all, thanks so much for sharing your session with Steve with all of us. I always hang on every word when you post the recap.<P>So, it would appear that Steve has advised you to move forward into Plan B. Did he give you any advice about what all Plan B would entail? Or how to carry it out?<P>Desiree, I think you are once again getting your hopes up, and setting yourself up for a disappointment:<P>"He seemed happy to talk to me and we talked about 20 minutes. No mention of us, our relationship, OW - no nasties at all!"<P>The chances are that your H isn't going to do a miraculous turnaround when confronted with this next move. Remember, he is pretty much Plan B'ing you already himself. So, how is YOUR Plan B going to differ from HIS Plan B??<P>I would think that the difference is that you're setting limits, & taking control of the situation. You are going to have to be VERY clear on giving him the ground rules for your Plan B. Then, you are going to have to stand firm in enforcing them, and not waiver. The message you need to send is that you are serious and fully prepared to follow through.<P>Our situations seem to be running pretty parallel. I can't give you much advice, right now, but I can certainly help with some brainstorming. Feel free to EMail me, and I'd be happy to assist.<P>Hang in there. Remember, we are OPTIMISTS!!<BR>

<B>Bill,</B><P>OK...good enough!<P><B>terri,</B><P>I keep telling you I am going to e-mail you and then later realize I don't have your e-mail address. Is it handy or do I need to go and search through the e-mail listing of a bazillion names???<P><B>Dev2,</B><P>Thanks so much for the support and kind words. Like all of this - this is the WORST thing that has ever happened to me in my life. I just keep reminding myslef that one day it will all be over one way or the other...<P><B>Sheryl,</B><P>I didn't get in until really late last night and saw David's post but haven't had a chnce to really read it and respond. Still asking God daily to restore your family!<P><B>Alex,</B><P>Yeah...I need to get the old etiquette book out so I can act like I have some manners in the swank place! HAHAHA!!! I will remember not to order anything that might haunt me later....<P><B>sidney,</B><P>Oh VOICE Of Reason - you always put the lead anvil in my hands to keep my feet on the ground.<P>sidney, I have a feeling about this that it will ne OK no matter what happens. If we go to PlanB - the REAL thing, the difference will be that my H can't just keep popping in like he does now. He is controlling his interactions with me and this will allow us to truly not have interactions. Steve says I need to force the issue with me not meeting any of his needs (I think I am still meeting some, although our time together is BRIEF) and then he will either keep on trucking with the OW or miss me and want to try again.<P>I am not expecting alot from this dinner in terms of him saying to me he is gonna come running home - naw, don't expect that. Honestly, I have no idea if he will call Steve or do the mediated session, either. I have no idea if he will tell me let's go ahead and divorce. I feel I am ready to hear him say that he wants the PlanB to be sure that our marriage is over, if he feels that way. <P>I do agree with you that doing this is going to let me set the boundaries and I need to do that for me.<P>I will try to e-mail you later - Thanks!!!<P>Desiree<P><P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

RMA,<P>The need you are meeting is still pretty big. It's the need for him to know that you are still there for him to choose if he feels like it. I think that could be a pretty big need. He doesn't have to do any work on the marriage and he still knows he has you if he wants. When I had my affair it did not become physical until the very end and then only four times. The rest of the time was emotional but just as bad as the physical. It's just that for us, crossing the line into the physical woke us both up. We could not believe that we had gone that far and committed adultery. We didn't think we were committing adultery before even tho I now think we were. I was still meeting big needs even when we didn't see each other or talk much at times during the affair. The reason why I was, I now see that it was because he knew I was there if he needed me. So we ended it all together, no contact. So I think you are meeting a bigger need of your H then you think. But he won't see it unless he is forced to.<P>Del

{b]Del,[/b]<P>Thanks for your perspective. From your point of view, do you agree with the approach that Steve and I have agreed upon??? I would appreciate your honest opinion, as I always like to consider all the sides of something as important as this.<P>And, yes, he knows I am still an option for him, because - I AM.<P>Desiree<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

I guess I don't want to say for sure but I think that him knowing that you are still an option doesn't make him in any hurry to do anything about anything. And the longer he waits thinking he can always go back when he wants the more involved he gets with the OW. So I guess I do agree with what Steve is saying. But I would listen more to others here than me. I just know in my situation the fact that he knew I was there filled a big need. I had to get out of the picture all together before he could work on getting that need met with his wife. I think the risk is that he will just turn more to the OW and you will lose the little foothold you have. You need to think about that also. I wonder what others here would think about that?<P>Del

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I feel I am ready to hear him say that he wants the PlanB to be sure that our marriage is over, if he feels that way.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>It does not matter what he wants. Don't discuss Plan B with him. Just do it when the time is right.