Sorry to lead you around the board, but I'm too tired to cut and paste. I started a reply to Hummingbird on "forgiveness" and was crying by the end of it. Actually, I'll go get it, don't like the thought of all you who are nice enough to do it having to go to all that trouble.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by schizzo:<BR><B>Sorry to lead you around the board, but I'm too tired to cut and paste. I started a reply to Hummingbird on "forgiveness" and was crying by the end of it. Actually, I'll go get it, don't like the thought of all you who are nice enough to do it having to go to all that trouble.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I feel down too, and I'll tag along here instead of starting a new<BR> one. I could have written what Hum did, EXCEPT that I'm the<BR> betrayed and my h doesn't say things like that.<P> Last night I couldn't sleep. He comes home preoccupied with work.<BR> Last night was our night out, but his mind was at work. The night<BR> before he had mentioned that a good friend was coming and could<BR> she stay with us while she pursues moving here. I'm not sure if I'm<BR> just losing it or he is too distracted but I figured it would be for a<BR> few days. Last night he said he had already confirmed it and then it<BR> struck him that I may not have understood it would be at least<BR> three months. Duh. Boy, do we communicate! Actually, I am<BR> enthusiastic, it was just the way we communicate.<P> I don't know how an affair can be said to bring back the flutters to<BR> the betrayed! It was a major wake-up call that all is not well, that's<BR> all. I had somehow come to terms with my life, with my unmet<BR> needs. Now, it's as if I'm in withdrawal for the man I think I need,<BR> for the needs that may never be met.<P> FHL, you say your h is clueless. That's how I feel. His needs for<BR> affection and conversation are at the bottom of the 10. He<BR> recognizes I'm not that way. He's often said I need to find others -<BR> friends, etc. to fill the gap. That is largely why I'm here. I should<BR> look to others to meet my needs - except what? sex and financial?<BR> that sounds like a recipe for an affair. He compares himself to the<BR> TERMINATOR, a completely results oriented, non-emotive person.<BR> Like I'm weak because I feel and he doesn't.<P> I'm not sure he is capable of loving anyone, and he is the only<BR> person in this world that I thought truly loved me. I still believe life<BR> is not worth living, but don't worry, it is against my faith to end it.<P><BR>

Only got a minute. Sometimes I feel my H's needs are not to need and not to be needed.<P>He is extremely self sufficient and values the same in others.<P>He's not an engineer, but he should have been. What he does is highly technical and there is no room for error ever. So his mind has been trained to work focus on the logical and rational and not the emotional.<P>It is not that he doesn't care, he is just not an emotional kind of guy.<P>And when we were trying to recover, it was very awkward for him. <P>So I know how it is. I think he appreciates me more than ever and has worked hard these last months to understand me and see my strengths as strengths, not weaknesses.<P>I'll try to get back later...does that help?<P>Life is worth living because you have a purpose. You are learing what you must to help you along the path. Give this time!!!!!<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

FHL, thank-you for replying. Ok, I'll be checking later. So, if your h is a lot like mine, how can they learn to meet some real needs. You're right it's not that he doesn't care, he just doesn't get it.

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My ailing old pup is needing my attention, my mom called, my 4 year old is in and out of the bath, I had a crisis I had to deal with for work(work mostly at home) and I'm working on some stuff for church. Plus I have cramps...thank goodness.<P>So I'm trying to reply intelligently but my life is not cooperating.<P>Please stand by....<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

schizzo<BR>How are you doing now?<BR>I've been avoiding the board the last couple of days so am catching up.<BR>I know how tough it is to be down when the forum is in such an uproar. Important things seem to go by the wayside.<BR>Something in your post reminded me of my H.<BR>The part about filling in the gap with other people. This has always been a sore spot with me. I work out of the home and H has always said things like that.<BR>i remember just before the affair began he told me I needed to find something for me. I said "Yeah, like a H." We were in a very bad place.<BR>I'm drifting. Sorry.<BR>The point I was trying to get to is that I was always offened by this attitude. I think it had a lot to do with the fact that I was misunderstanding his meaning. I always felt like he was saying he didn't have time to make me happy so I should go do it on my own.<BR>I see it differently now. I guees becuase I spednd so much time alone that I want to get out of the rut. I want to think about something else. <BR>I think he really cared about me but I was too defensive.<BR>I'm probably not making much sense but I really can relate to what you have said.<BR>I'm trying to remember what I did to make the communication better. FHL and I have had similar conversations in the past.<BR>With a clueless H I think you need to start by being there when they are doing what they like. I never did that before the affair. I started going along even if he was just running to the store. I started asking little questions about his work.<BR>Things like that. now I can't get him to shut up when he's home <BR>he doesn't often talk about important things. He just talks and talks.<BR>That's okay. I like listening since we spent so many years in silence.<BR>don't know if this helped any. I rambled a lot. Just wanted you to know someone cared.

Oops <p>[This message has been edited by wasstubborn (edited January 14, 2000).]

((((((((schizzo))))))))))

wasstubborn, I do think he means well, and I have been there for him. I've always been included on all the job issues (and they are complex), even during the EMA. That was something the little girl couldn't give him!<P>My brother was down for Thanksgiving and it was something the way he looked in my eyes when I was talking and made me feel like he was really listening. Good thing it was my brother, because boy, have I felt vulnerable. My h lives for his work. If we're not careful, I see us falling back into old patterns. He comes home sooooo tired to eat and sleep here. Our date night is all about his job or pending issues we have. I feel so invisible, he's not that interested in knowing what I think, feel, wonder.<P>I think it was always like this. I was just too blind to see it. I was the one who made it all work. I had him on a pedestal, he was the smartest, the best.<P>I don't think it's just the EMA I'm dealing with now. We are still the same people, but I can no longer be happy with the crumbs I used to live on, and I'm not sure he can or wants to grow. He has not spent much time on soul searching like all of us here. He never had much remorse, but says he will now be faithful since he knows firsthand the pain it causes. Maybe I could get him to start posting here. In a way, it gave me a sort of freedom to know he's not reading anything I write, but it also seems he would want to understand better what I'm going through. I read over 100 emails between him and OW mostly to understand him better, what he found there, what makes him tick.

I'm not sure you are going to like the message of this post, but it is really positive.<P>Don't know if you will relate to this, but although I thought we had a good marriage (we did, actually) it had become routine. We put the family unit first...and all the schedules...and we did not tend to us as a couple as much as we should have. <P>If you would have stopped me on the street before the affair and asked me if I was happy I would have said yes and meant it. I would have said I led a blesseed and charmed life. And I do. If you have then asked if there was anything more I would like for my marriage I would have said sure. I would like greater emotional intimacy. I would like to be needed by my H and I would have liked to have been treated more romantically. Then I probably would have sighed and "oh, well" and walked on....and went back to being happy with what I had. I had stopped pressing for more because I was tired of not getting it and I focused on what we did have. In other words, some of my needs weren't being met.<P>Then my H has his affair. I was blown away. However, the one weird little nugget that crossed my mind was. If he was capable of "dating" then maybe there was hope for him romantically speaking. Almost sick, huh?<P>And he was sorry. Plus in my mind as we began to rebuild "he owed me". I was not going to settle again.<P>And my H has improved and is improving. He is trying. However, guess what, he's still pretty much my husband.<P>I got pretty good at filling his needs, and he's as happy as a clam in our relationship. So happy that he is not really motivated to change internally. And I have to be careful because the external prodding can easily be a lovebuster.<P>His cluelessness doesn't allow for empathy. He has a hard time with seeing my needs as legitimate. To him they are a bunch of fluff and he can pacify them, but he can't really put himself into them. <P>It is always easier to change yourself and change your expectations, situation or whatever than to expect big changes from your partner.<P>It is not that he doesn't want to make me happy. He does. He just doesn't get it. Just like I don't get anything too mechanical. Could I learn it if my life depended on it? Maybe. But that's about it. I'd never have passion or enthusiasm for it. And my H just does not have passion for intangible things like emotions.<P>So I'm much farther ahead than I was before the affair and my H is much more open to filling my needs.<P>But you probably admired or choose your H for his strengths and minimized his weaknesses. Now it is not so easy.<P>So what are your H's strengths? List them. You may find they are the flip side of his weaknesses.<P>In conclusion. I think at this point you are really in too much pain to actively build. You are still in the holding on and just recovering. Still, what may be happening is things are getting back to normal and your H is doing well, happy with the marriage and is ready to move forward and you are saying...hey wait...what is wrong with this picture?<P>So that's the positive. You H is probably doing well. Your marriage is probably sound. He can't even comprehend your pain and he is dealing the best way he knows how by "getting back to work" so to speak. Give it time. Really think about what you want most and take the emotional lead in your relationship and your H just might surprise you.<P>But don't be surprised that he is still basically your H.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

WOW, exactly. You said it so well. Even the part about I would have said I was happy and oh well...<P>No, it's not sick. I read their 100+ e-mails. If he was capable of being that tender and concerned, I thought he could do it with me, and yes, I also want it now. I don't think I can settle anymore.<P>This girl really fell for him. At first I thought he was being a different person, and just wasn't turning it on for me. Now I realize she was just that "needy", that he was no different than he is now.<P>Yes, I'm now realizing that after all the pain, I'm back to being with my same h, the same in-laws, the same problems. It's a tough transition, but maybe it means I'm moving on from being obsessed with the EMA. Have to go now, and thanks so much for your response. Will reread it again later. Did you see my post about gooey? It's fun to chat.

Hey, I can't take the time right now to find it and download and chat. Gotta get the Christmas Tree down! This week as been killer with activities.<P>I will some other time, though. <P>Glad my post didn't depress you...it wasn't meant to, but I really know how you feel.<P>By the way, H actually made the progress he did make maybe after about 3 months...then not much again until fall. I do think he is thinking different....which of course is important.<P>And if your H doesn't mind (mine doesn't) sometimes you have to spell it right out as the opportunity presents itself instead of expecting him to mind read.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13