I have been married for 10 years and have 2 wonderful children. I get along okay with my wife. But my feelings have become numb. I routinely tell my wife that I love her but deep down I don't feel it. We seldom make love and I'm mostly feeling down. But I try to put up a brave front and pretend that all is well.<P>I think I've been a fairly okay father and husband. I try to spend time with my wife and go for dinners together without the kids. I have never missed a special occasion like Valentine, Christmas, Birthday and Anniversary that I have not bought her something special and a romantic card. I bring my kids on vacations and outings and buy them presents when I come back from business trips.<P>But I have fallen in love with another woman. We have not had sex but the feeling is very intense (at least my own feelings). I've known her for 8 years. She recently separated from her husband (and will get a divorce this summer). I love this woman very much. To show her that I love her, I've bought her gifts and sent her on vacations (with her mum). I've spent more than $15K on her over the past 2 years. I know it's wrong but I just can't stop buying things for her.<P>However, I'm not sure of her true feelings for me and if she is using me. <P>I WANT TO STOP THE CHARADE. I believe in my weddings vows and I constantly remind myself of my pledge to my wife to love and cherish her. (That may be the reason why I have not pushed to bring my relationship with the OW to a physical level.) I want to fall in love with my wife once more. I'm doing all the romantic things but my heart is far away. And I want to stop my EA with the OW. I want to focus my energy on my wife and try to rekindle the spark we had.<P>Please give me some advice and your thoughts.

Hi In Need:<P>First off, go through Harley's materials which are available right here right now.Better yet, pick up the phone and call him. Begin counselling with him immediately. You've come to the right place if you truly want to save your marriage.<P>Secondly, break off this fantasy relationship you have with this OW--that is paramount. Forget any notions about retaining a friendship, because it won't work. Your relationship with OW has already damaged your marriage, given you cause to question your feelings for your wife.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by in_need_of_advice:<BR><B>I have been married for 10 years and have 2 wonderful children. I get along okay with my wife. But my feelings have become numb.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>They have become numb because you have fallen in love with another woman...there is nothing mysterious in this. Break off all communications with OW and begin to refocus on your family.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B> I routinely tell my wife that I love her but deep down I don't feel it. We seldom make love and I'm mostly feeling down. But I try to put up a brave front and pretend that all is well.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Dear In Need, bravery will only lead to resentment and cause further distance between you and your wife. Come clean and tell your wife you are troubled by the state of your marriage, that you have feelings for another woman and then work on saving yur marriage. THAT, my friend, is the brave thing to do. BTW, I'd bet money that your wife "senses" all is not well. Call it women's intuition, call it whatever you'd like, but she does know something is very wrong.<P><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B> But I have fallen in love with another woman. We have not had sex but the feeling is very intense (at least my own feelings). I've known her for 8 years. She recently separated from her husband (and will get a divorce this summer). I love this woman very much.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>And therein lies the problem. She is the problem. But, my friend, she is a fantasy. She is not real. I think you know this--I think you know what you are experiencing is the exhilaration of the possibility of a new start, a new life. I know those feelings too well, In Need. I betrayed my husband a year ago for the same fantasy and it wrought more pain that I could ever possibly articulate. And while he was soon to forgive me, I still struggle with the pain of having betrayed him...and me...and our life together. This is an enormously dangerous and painful path you are flirting with. That you came here is a good sign (wish I had done that before I lost my mind!) You are confused but ultimately you KNOW what's right. The question is, will you be strong enough to do what's right or will you succumb to a fantasy that is unsustainable?<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>To show her that I love her, I've bought her gifts and sent her on vacations (with her mum). I've spent more than $15K on her over the past 2 years. I know it's wrong but I just can't stop buying things for her.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Okay, you've totally lost me here <BR>Why would you try to buy someone's affections? Surely you realize that's what you're doing? Is it perhaps to seduce her into believing this is the kind of lifestyle you could provide for her once you're together? And yes, my friend, you CAN stop buying things for her. That's probably one of the easiest challenges for you to overcome. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>However, I'm not sure of her true feelings for me and if she is using me. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I don't want to be hurtful or flip but it pretty much sounds like she's using you. In my affair with OM, the feelings at first were mutually intoxicating. He adored me, he drank me up and I him. We could not get enough of each other emotionally--money, gifts never exchanged hands. Never. We communicated, we talked, we listened, we felt, we connected (so many delusions!) we began as friends and grew more and more intimate--we crossed the line--and then the entire fantasy blew up.<P>Please stop trying to buy her affections...please stop allowing yourself to be used in this way.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B> I WANT TO STOP THE CHARADE. I believe in my wedding vows ... I want to fall in love with my wife once more...I want to stop my EA with the OW. I want to focus my energy on my wife and try to rekindle the spark we had.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Then just do it, my friend. Just do it. It won't be easy because you sound so emotionally involved already--but you and you alone have the power to put an end to this. Do it now before it spirals out of control and you make the biggest mistake of your life. Believe me, I've been there and the roads in hell could not be more painful than trying to find your way back to reality.<P>Good luck and do the right thing! You know what it is!!!!<P><BR>------------------<BR>Take good care, Francis<P><p>[This message has been edited by Francis (edited January 14, 2000).]

In Need: You did the best thing,, you found this forum~!!! My H said all the same things,fell in love with another woman, i found out, we seperated, faced divorce, reconciled,, and I had to watch him have to go through withdrawals when he ended it with the ow..... It was so hard, so difficult,, but we made it.. He is over her, and regaining his love for me...<P>I would pick up the book called Surviving an Affair,, although your relationship did not turn physical,, it can be very difficult to get through unless you have some understanding of what you are going through..<P>Another good book is Private Lies.. In this book there is a chapt that talks about why marriages rarely ever work out to ow (if they even get to that point),, Statistically, there is a low percentage of people that end up marrying op, and even lower (3%) that stay married.. I have a post titled private lies,, I am going to bring it to the top of this site for you to read... Look for it,,, its excellent information..<P>Sounds like you can afford the counseling that Steve Harley (from this site) offers. He has a very high success rate of saving marriages... His counseling methods will be like the book.. You should read the book and read some of the infomation on this site first before calling him..<P>You can turn things around, but you are going to have to end it with ow first and foremost....<P>keep posting here.. people will help

Welcome <B>in_need_of_advice</B>, to the Marriage Builders - Infidelity Forum.<P><B>Thank God you made it here</B>...<BR>We were waiting gor you... <P>The people here represent both betrayed spouses and betrayers(waywards) alike and the occasional Other Woman/Man/Person (OW/OM/OP).<BR><B>All</B> of us are really here to try and build or rebuild our marriages... and we are trying to use principles and concepts that are espoused by Dr. Willard Harley of Marriage Builders(MB).<P>There is a wealth of information here at this site, starting from the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/" TARGET=_blank>Marriage Builder's Home Page</A>.<P>If you're new to the ideas being presented here at MB start off with <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3000_intro.html" TARGET=_blank>Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts</A>.<P>Many of us need to start immediately working on our marriages and a <B>sound</B> understanding of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A and Plan B</A> is crucial! Even as a wayward... you need to start on <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A> immediately!<P>You'll see a barrage of "terms" which you might guess the meaning of... but an alternative is to look up what they mean at this site... Words like (click on them to find out):<BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Busters</A>, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3200_love.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Bank</A>, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.html" TARGET=_blank>Emotional Needs</A>, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3550_give.html" TARGET=_blank>Giver and Taker</A>, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3500_policy.html" TARGET=_blank>The Policy of Joint Agreement(POJA)</A>.<P>You'll need to learn more about, not just marriage building... but self building too! The learning isn't going to happen overnight though... look at the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8100_article.html" TARGET=_blank>Articles</A> and <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5525_qa.html" TARGET=_blank>Infidelity Q&A</A>.<BR>The real learning is best aided by obtaining some of the books from the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6000_bookstore.html" TARGET=_blank>MB Bookstore</A>... of most important for those who have affairs in progress, or soon to be, is <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6070_sa.html" TARGET=_blank>"Surviving An Affair"</A> by Dr. Willard Harley. <B>This is the 'bible' for this forum.</B><BR>Other books can be very useful as well... like <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6020_needs.html" TARGET=_blank>"His Needs, Her Needs"</A>, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6030_love.html" TARGET=_blank>"Love Busters"</A>, and <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6010_give.html" TARGET=_blank>"Give & Take: The Secret to Marital Compatibility"</A>.<BR>There will be many other good books that the MB people will recommend... take their advice... they've been around. There is a post that lists many of these non-Harley book recommendations... <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/010158.html" TARGET=_blank>Books... books... books... (again)</A>.<P>Most of all... you will find <B>compassion</B> and <B>love</B> here. No judging... no demeaning... no malice here! Not even fot the waywards... there are many on this forum who have been... and are trying to stop in that role of betrayer!<BR>The people here have all had their lives thrown into a whirlwind of despair, confusion, and sadness.<BR>We've all experience gut wrenching emotions that we though could never exist, in anyone's idea of humanity.<BR>Feelings of hatred, love, disillusionment, envy, rejection, emptiness, <B>deep depression</B>, and on and on... These feelings are not just those of the betrayed... but in time more so the feelings of the wayward!<P>Just the books and facts aren't going to get you through it all... not without <B>support</B>. That's where <B>we</B> come in! <B>We</B> care... because <B>we</B> know how it feels. Believe it... <B>You are <I>not</I> alone</B>! <BR>Come to this forum to vent... to cry... to laugh (a little)... to express your feelings... to advise others... or just to get away!<BR>You're probably going through H*!! right now... don't go it alone... remember... <B>you are <I>not</I> alone</B>! <P>We can give you help... to build back many vital aspects of your life and sanity. <P>Post... Post... Post... Reply... Reply... Reply... READ! READ! READ!<P>I've been speaking in behalf of some dear friends... as well as some complete strangers too..., when I've used <B>"we"</B>!<BR>But... if you're here... join in with them... they <B>will</B> join in with you. <B>We</B> do not always agree with each other on how to handle situations... but each of us is offering to you advice base on individual experiences. Search out those people on the forum that have experiences similar to yours... and ask... ask... ask! <P>BTW: weekends are a bit <B>S L O W</B> here... be patient... you will get responses.<P>We are so proud of you for coming to this forum! <P>Do get the book <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6070_sa.html" TARGET=_blank>"Surviving An Affair"</A>...<P>Once you're withdrawal from the OW is well on it's way (and it may take some time)... use the <B>Four rules to guide marital recovery</B><BR><OL TYPE=1> <BR><LI> <B>The Rule of Protection:</B> Avoid being the cause of your spouse's unhappiness.<BR><LI> <B>The Rule of Care:</B> Meet your spouse's most important <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.html" TARGET=_blank>Emotional Needs</A>.<BR><LI> <B>The Rule of Time:</B> Take time to give your spouse undivided attention.<BR><LI> <B>The Rule of Honesty:</B> Be totally open and honest with your spouse.<BR></OL> and you'll be well on your way...<P>Prayers for the strength you will need...<BR>There will be more from others...<BR>Ask!<P>Jim<BR>---------------------------------<BR>Where two or more are gathered...

Advice so nice, I'll post it twice: <P>(copied from your post on another forum)<P>My advice is to spend the time, energy and money you've been spending on your OW and spend it on your W instead. <P>Send your W on trips, buy her $10K worth of gifts and a diamond ring, call her and speak in a loving voice as you speak to your OW, send her cards and do all the things you've been doing to her to your W. <P>Then come back and tell us how unhappily married you are. <P>Here's some new stuff I'd like to add: <P>#1. That giddy weak-kneed In-Love feeling you had for your W and have now for your OW is a fantasy. It fades and becomes a mellow comfortable feeling, a partnership, a friend kind of love. Perhaps, on some moonlit vacation, Passion returns for an evening or a weekend.<P>Passion has faded with your W and it will fade if you run off with your OW or any other future W you might find. "Forever Passionate Love" is a media-fantasy perpetrated by tv, movies and romance novels. <P>If you think that breathless feeling is "love" and you're going to turn your world upside down to get it, then get a divorce and go ahead and hook up w/OW. <P>(That is, if she's still available - isn't she off sleeping with her new boyfriend?) <P>But don't marry her, because when the butterflies stop tickling your heart you're going to have to trade her in for another woman. Then after that new love dies, you're going to need woman #4 and 5 and 6...<P>Some people aren't cut out for marriage - they only wish to pursue Passion. You might be one of them. <P>I'm not knocking your lifestyle, just try not to involve marriage, committment and innocent bystanders in your pursuit of "Passionate In Love" feelings. <P>Be upfront with your future partners - tell them you're in it only until the passionate flame flickers and dies. Tell them you're not cut out for what real love and real marriage is all about - you're just looking for heart-pounding passionate love and nothing deeper or richer. <P>You certainly fit the classic description of a Sugar Daddy - perhaps that is the lifestyle you should adopt. <P>Or grow up. <P>Peace<BR>

Dear Francis,<P>Thanks for taking time to share your insight. Deep down I know this is a fantasy relationship but my head seems to be screwed on the wrong way when it comes to knowing what is right and doing the correct thing. I need to stop contact with the OW but God it is so difficult and I need your prayers.<P>When I give the OW gifts, it is not to buy her affection but rather that is my way of saying that I love her. I have never demanded any thing in return and I do not think I'm a sugar daddy. I have this giving heart from young. But you are probably right that she is using me. She is seeing someone else and had sex with him (I'm not sure if they are still having sex as she thinks this "issue" is not important.) If she cares for me she should have stopped me from putting so much emotion into this relationship as she is trying to have a fresh start with another man. But I'm a fool and love is blind. Pray for me for strength.<P>Sorry for being flip myself. In some ways I envy your fling with your OM. You had a mutually satisfying relationship then. You were intoxicated with each other and you sound like 2 persons truly in love then. As for me, I think my relationship is more one sided. I'm the one showing the feelings. She does not tell me that she loves me, takes my hand to hold or give me a hug once in a while. The only time I think she has feelings for me are from the words printed on the cards she gives me (for Christmas and Birthday). One cards say that I'm her confidant, her lover and best friend. When I get these cards, how can i resist thinking that she loves me???<P>By the way, I'm also Francis. If you can overcome the odds to refocus on your H, then I'll be able to rekindle the love for my W.<P>Francis<BR> <BR><p>[This message has been edited by in_need_of_advice (edited January 16, 2000).]

Dear Mickey65,<P>Thanks for your response. I could not access your "private lies" post. Please repost it.<P>Thanks.

Dear KarmaGrrl,<P>Thanks for your response both here and in the "Other Topics" forum. <P>You ask me to "Send your W on trips, buy her $10K worth of gifts and a diamond ring, call her and speak in a loving voice as you speak to your OW, send her cards and do all the things you've been doing to her to your W." Well I have been doing these things all along. Maybe its a charade.<P>The root of the problem is the OW. I know once she's gone then I can start to rebuild my marriage. I need your prayers. <p>[This message has been edited by in_need_of_advice (edited January 16, 2000).]