After 10 years of marriage I violated my wedding vows. For the past 4 or 5 years I have felt so alone. I had purchased books and tapes on renewing a marriage (which H had no interest in), even suggested going to counceling, but to no avail. I still felt depressed and miserable. I had pretty much made up my mind that I wanted to end my marriage but was scared to do so because of the fear of being alone. Then I met a man through the internet and we began talking about our hopes and dreams of how each of us wanted our lives to be. I fell in love with this man and after months of speaking to him on line and by phone, we decided to meet. After the first time we met I felt very guilty about still living with my H and kissing another man. I still loved my H, just wasn't IN love with him. I asked my H to leave and shortly thereafter I met with OM again. That time I was intimate with him. H confronted me as to whether I had been seeing someone and I finally admitted it to him. H and I are going to counseling now. It has been only 3 months since he found out about OM. H is having a hard time dealing with the thoughts of me and OM. H wants to confront OM to even the score. OM dropped out of sight when he found out that H knew about us. H did some research and knows where OM lives and feels the only way to bring some closure to the frustration he is feeling is to "clean up" on OM and let him know that he can't try to take his wife and get away with it. I am scared H will lose control and go beyond that and do something that may land him in jail, maybe for life. H thinks I am against him going after OM because I am trying to protect OM. I want to rebuild my marriage and want H to have closure, but I am afraid of what trouble H meeting OM may bring about. OM is married also and I don't think his W knows about the relationship. I don't know what type of person she is and if she may come looking to harm my family (esp. my children) in some way. Also, OM was very protective and scared of losing his children should our affair be found out too soon. He wanted to wait another year or two before leaving his wife so his children could choose who they lived with. They did not like their mother and had always said that if daddy left they wanted to move with him. That makes me afraid of what he may do also if H shows up at his doorstep. I feel it is OM responsibility to tell his W. If OM's W finds out because of H showing up there, I am afraid OM will do what he can to make H and I lose what we are trying to rebuild. Should I permit H his opportunity to have some closure in this way. H says that the only thing stopping him from doing it right now is the fact that I am against it. That makes H feel like I am still protecting OM in whatever ways I can. What should I do? <BR><p>[This message has been edited by trying to rebuild (edited January 14, 2000).]

Welcome <B>trying to rebuild</B>, to the Marriage Builders - Infidelity Forum.<P>You've come to the right place!<P>As a quick response... If you can get your H to a counselor before he goes to see the OM it would be best...I would recommend that you have a quick <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7200_phone.html" TARGET=_blank>telephone counseling session</A> ($85US a pop... but well worth it) with <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7010_about.html" TARGET=_blank>Steven W. Harley</A>. Check out the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7000_counsel.html" TARGET=_blank>Counseling Center</A>... and for some specifics... <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7015_fee.html" TARGET=_blank>Fees for Counseling Services</A> and <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7020_sched.html" TARGET=_blank>Scheduling an Appointment</A>!<P>Back to my general Welcome Wagon spiel...<P>The people here represent both betrayed spouses and betrayers(waywards) alike and the occasional Other Woman/Man/Person (OW/OM/OP).<BR><B>All</B> of us are really here to try and build or rebuild our marriages... and we are trying to use principles and concepts that are espoused by Dr. Willard Harley of Marriage Builders(MB).<P>There is a wealth of information here at this site, starting from the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/" TARGET=_blank>Marriage Builder's Home Page</A>.<P>If you're new to the ideas being presented here at MB start off with <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3000_intro.html" TARGET=_blank>Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts</A>.<P>Many of us need to start immediately working on our marriages and a <B>sound</B> understanding of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A and Plan B</A> is crucial! Even as a betrayer, you need to be in <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A>!<P>You'll see a barrage of "terms" which you might guess the meaning of... but an alternative is to look up what they mean at this site... Words like (click on them to find out):<BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Busters</A>, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3200_love.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Bank</A>, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.html" TARGET=_blank>Emotional Needs</A>, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3550_give.html" TARGET=_blank>Giver and Taker</A>, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3500_policy.html" TARGET=_blank>The Policy of Joint Agreement(POJA)</A>.<P>You'll need to learn more about, not just marriage building... but self building too! The learning isn't going to happen overnight though... look at the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8100_article.html" TARGET=_blank>Articles</A> and <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5525_qa.html" TARGET=_blank>Infidelity Q&A</A>.<BR>The real learning is best aided by obtaining some of the books from the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6000_bookstore.html" TARGET=_blank>MB Bookstore</A>... of most important for those who have affairs in progress, or soon to be, is <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6070_sa.html" TARGET=_blank>"Surviving An Affair"</A> by Dr. Willard Harley. <B>This is the 'bible' for this forum.</B><BR>Other books can be very useful as well... like <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6020_needs.html" TARGET=_blank>"His Needs, Her Needs"</A>, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6030_love.html" TARGET=_blank>"Love Busters"</A>, and <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6010_give.html" TARGET=_blank>"Give & Take: The Secret to Marital Compatibility"</A>.<BR>There will be many other good books that the MB people will recommend... take their advice... they've been around. There is a post that lists many of these non-Harley book recommendations... <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/010158.html" TARGET=_blank>Books... books... books... (again)</A>.<P>Most of all... you will find <B>compassion</B> and <B>love</B> here. No judging... no demeaning... no malice here! Even for the wayward...<BR>The people here have all had their lives thrown into a whirlwind of despair, confusion, and sadness.<BR>We've all experience gut wrenching emotions that we though could never exist, in anyone's idea of humanity.<BR>Feelings of hatred, love, disillusionment, envy, rejection, emptiness, <B>deep depression</B>, and on and on...<P>Just the books and facts aren't going to get you through it all... not without <B>support</B>. That's where <B>we</B> come in! <B>We</B> care... because <B>we</B> know how it feels. Believe it... <B>You are <I>not</I> alone</B>! <BR>Come to this forum to vent... to cry... to laugh (a little)... to express your feelings... to advise others... or just to get away!<BR>You're probably going through H*!! right now... don't go it alone... remember... <B>you are <I>not</I> alone</B>! <P>We can give you help... to build back many vital aspects of your life and sanity. <P>Post... Post... Post... Reply... Reply... Reply... READ! READ! READ!<P>I've been speaking in behalf of some dear friends... as well as some complete strangers too..., when I've used <B>"we"</B>!<BR>But... if you're here... join in with them... they <B>will</B> join in with you. <B>We</B> do not always agree with each other on how to handle situations... but each of us is offering to you advice base on individual experiences. Search out those people on the forum that have experiences similar to yours... and ask... ask... ask! <P>Jim<BR>---------------------------------<BR>Where two or more are gathered...

Welcome to Marriage Builders, I'm sure NSR will be along with the traditional welcome. (don't worry, no hazing here )<BR>Is your H interested in coming to these boards and participating? After my affair this summer, my wife (well, ex but it's a long story) started coming here together and it sure helped our communication.<BR>I'm not fully up to date on ALL of Dr Harley's principles, but NO CONTACT is one of the basic rules.<BR>Ultimately, H's issures are with you, and confronting OM will probably not help. Worse, it may in fact divert his attention from where it is needed, which is at home, working on your marriage.<BR>A popular way of gaining some closure is to send a "NO CONTACT" letter. If you are interested, I'm sure one of us 'regulars' could post one for you. Your husband may want to be involved in the sending of this letter, and since your EMA was internet based, email is the perfect way to send it.<BR>We sent one and by golly it sure worked.<BR>Anyway, welcome to MB. I hope it helps you as much as it helped (and is still helping) me.<BR>Deut

trying to rebuild - it sounds to me that a part of you is protecting the OM, it also sounds like you have believed everything this OM has told you. This man has probably never had any thoughts whatsoever about leaving his wife, that's something that he probably just told you. I don't think that your H should do anything physical with this OM(Even though I must admit to having those thoughts myself), and maybe telling the OM's wife may not be the best thing to do, but if it is what your husband feels to bring closure to HIM, then I feel as though you should support him, or at least appear to be supportive of him, any thing else appears as though you are protecting the OM, trust me, I have been there, I know what your H is feeling.

Trying to rebuild,<P>I think FA is right it sounds like you are trying to protect OM. You need to really look into your heart on this. Your H needs to really know where you stand and that requires you to know where you stand.<P>As for H's closure, I would suggest that you consider your approach to your H in the following fashion.<P>You are trying to rebuild with your H. Contact with the OM is not good for your rebuilding. Specifically, it probably reminds you of OM. If H brings OM back into the marriage it will definitely cause problems for you. It may cause serious problems for H depending on what he does. In all cases it does not help the rebuilding process. <P>This sounds really good but it doesn't help your H's problem. How to deal with that? FA is giving you a really good insight into your H's problem. As souless' ex H said, maybe getting him to this sight so that he has a better appreciation of what he is dealing with; Your withdrawl from OM and everything else would help. It may well really depress him but it may also show him things he needs to know. Contacting OM remotely via mail or phone, might be a possibility. Contacting OM's wife will certainly be an act of revenge and revenge rarely is very satisfying, although the thought of revenge can be very attractive.<P>But as I think about this TTB, I suspect that his real desire to do this is that he has not gotten around his hurt and anger at you. He cannot really unleash his anger on you if he wants to rebuild. Who else is left? THe OM is and he deserves to pay, but the cost of making him pay is very high. <P>I would suggest that your H's anger could be softened somewhat if he really thought you loved him and had his best interests at heart. Your question suggests you do, but your reasoning leaves some residual thoughts that you are still attached to OM emotionally. My recommendation is show your H that you love him. Don't lie to him. In another words go to a Plan A and try to delay your H's closure plan for awhile. If you do a good enough job, he may decide he doesn't want to go to jail or get sued because of the OM. <P>Right now, I suspect there are many times he really doesn't care what happens to him. You must change that or closure will be painful for both of you.<P>God Bless You and Your Family<P>JL

trying--<P>I agree with F A....IMHO, OM sold you hook, line and sinker on lies, he probably had no intention of leaving his W. He met you from online contact--how many others might he have met the same way? <P>Do not protect the OM. Rather, explain to your H that the possibility of violence and resulting threats of legal action are your fears...how they would affect your marriage. That you worry about him, because you love him. (Difficult, I know, men oftentimes want a physical resolution when they're angry with another man.) There also would be no satisfaction in your H trying to talk to the OM in any face-to-face way--the OM is unpredictable and could very well say something to make the situation even worse!<P>I think a "no contact" email is the way to go. Do you? Signed by you both. Then accept no phone calls, delete all e-mail (block, or even change screen names). A "no contact" letter MEANS no contact. It's over, the way it should be.

When I had my one night stand, my H wanted to talk to OM. I let him. However, my husband called him by phone and gave him a piece of his mind. I think this did help my H in a sense. However, like the others, I'd suggest that your H doesn't have any contact with the OM. It can be very dangerous. <P>------------------<BR>"If you can learn from the mistakes of others, you won't have to make them youself."

I think all betrayed partners feel at a point that maybe confrontation will help them get over their anger or other feelings of being inadequate in their way to "protect" what was theirs. The thing about it is this........I would point blank ask him to portray the scene as he sees it in his mind. Ask him to tell you who does what, what actions proceed and what actions follow those. I would ask him to tell him how he feels about the whole thing once he's worked it out in his mind, does it get him anywheres? The other thing I would do is communicate strongly that the reason you don't feel a confrontation would be a good thing is to protect your spouse, not the other man. If you present reasons that you don't want the confrontation to happen because of OM then your spouse feels your protecting him instead of answering your spouses needs. Hope all works out well for you, God Bless!<P>------------------<BR>Chick's <BR>Bren<P>You won't see things until your ready to not be blind!<P>

Hi,<BR>I think Lucks is right on the $$ about<BR>not protecting OM but explaining to your H the possible results of a confrontation.<BR>It's not as if he's going to shake his hand right? It could be a very ugly scene. Remind<BR>him of your children and how HORRIBLE it would be if he got arrested, etc. Tell him you understand why he wants to and help him understand why he just can't do it. Like Lucks said, maybe a NO CONTACT email is the right way to go. There your H can cuss and vent. <BR>Although I'm a female, I have also wanted and even pursued violence against OW. I KNOW how frustrating your H feels right now. I was lucky that the OW had left the trailer she was living in. God was looking out for me because I'm really afraid of what might have happened. At the very least I could have been arrested and that would have followed me for the rest of my days. Time and love can heal your marriage. Hang in there!<P>------------------<BR>For I know the thoughts I think<BR>toward you, saith the Lord,<BR>thoughts of peace, not of evil,<BR>to give you an expected end.<BR>Jeremiah 29:11<BR>

trying to rebuild,<P>I hope the e-mail helps... <P>Jim

Hello Trying to Rebuild<P> I am new to this forum and my heart is beating a mile a minute, because it was advised that your H not tell the OM's spouse. THAT'S IS EXACTLY HOW I FOUND OUT, and I will be forever greatful for the betrayed H in my situation. Not only will your H be doing the right thing. you see,she (unknowingly) is very much a part of the situation your all in. She is one of the players too. I'm not saying your H develop any kind of relationship in which he comiserates with her(that would be distuctive)<P> Before I had this knowledge I had died a thousand deaths, racked my brain trying to figure out why all my love and affections were not being reciprocated. You see the other offended spouse,equipt me to take the proper actions. Yea I was a little crazy in the begining, but remember your ex-lover is telling you his worst fears, and has not painted a very favorable picture of his wife. Know that she may not be all that bad. sorry.<P> I am happy to say my husband is with me and we are moving next month to a new city! We still have issues, but.. whoa I'd like to think that not only I'm allowed to participate in my own families recovery, but in my doing so, I directly effected their's too(They are re-building too.)By underestimating your H and protecting your ex-lover from his fears you are still putting your OM feelings above your H's<P> We (the betrayed) are offering our spouses protection and accoutability, when everything is brought out of the dark. Shed light on her situation and it will help yours too. <P> I do understand the cautions about confronting the OM, but again I did (OW) and gained alot of valuable insight that I may never had otherwise been privy to. I also think it makes the "Lover" realize that your H is alive... real and a person that they need to contend with. It help's break the fantasy world that they've built around them. TTR,warn your H it may be to soon to expect any sort of respect from OM(withdrawling betrayers are still in a very selfish mode), but if they are talkative like my H's OW you will uncover alot of lies (your H has a right to know the truth, perhaps your afraid of that?)<P> My only caution to him is to be very level headed and not harass the OM, being a MODEL of the respect (the resect the OM has not shown him). When he confronts, let there be no name calling, yelling or interupting. Everything done constructivly with a great show of strength. Anger, loss of control are weaknesses, that will only reaffirm and help the OM justify their actions. If he is not in control of your emotions He shiould not do it! <P>This was written with love motivating me.<P>Sincerely,<BR> LHS <BR>sorry to be so long winded, in all my post thus far, I guess everything is just pouring out. <BR>[This message has been edited by Lost her song (edited January 15, 2000).]<p>[This message has been edited by Lost her song (edited January 15, 2000).]

Thank you for all the replies. I showed my husband what I had written and he also read all the replies. We didn't discuss things afterwards, but I hope to be able to bring it to the table soon. Tonight I deleted all forms of contact I had with the OM through the computer. I cried as I deleted each one. I guess that proves to me that he still has an emotional hold over me. That is my problem, I am letting him control my life and destiny when I should be dictating how I live and think. I know I should be kicking myself for the fool the OM played me for, but instead I am, again, morning the lose of him. I feel like I am stepping backwards instead of forward. I have regained my love for my husband and I should be concentrating on my husband and family, but I find myself returning to depression. I thought I was beyond the addiction of the OM. Maybe I was just fooling myself. I have had no contact with the OM whatsoever, why can't I let myself move forward in my life and forget him.

That's because you ARE mourning a loss. It hurts. But you are doing the right thing. And no contact will aid in your healing process. Stay strong!<P>I'm glad you are able to share this web site with your H. That helps too.<P>Should you feel the need to have contact with OM, don't. Talk to your H, and post here instead. You WILL get through this, and with your H's help, your marriage CAN be stronger/better/happier. You're on the right track.

Wow! keep up the good work and do not get weary in well doing! You have done the right thing! I'm so happy for you. Keeping things open and honest is what your H needs,<BR>plus alot of display of love and admiration, both verbal and pysical. You may feel like your going through the motions, but the real feelings WILL come. Be real patient and understanding right now, cause no matter how hard the betrayed tries LB's slip out now and then cause we're so hurt and often confused. I'm sure you know all this, but I just wanted to encourage you. Super move on your part. Smiles from Heaven!!!!<P>------------------<BR>Lost her song (but trying to find it again)

I have regained my love for my husband and I should be concentrating on my husband and family, but I find myself returning to depression. I thought I was beyond the addiction of the OM. Maybe I was just fooling myself. I have had no contact with the OM whatsoever, why can't I let myself move forward in my life and forget him. <P>First of all, you probably never really lost your love for your husband, just forgot it for a while... lost your focus. <BR>As for the addiction thing, I don't buy it. (sorry, Dr. Harley) This OM obviously filled a hole in your life, for a while... and met some pretty deep emotional needs. Now comes the difficult part- rebuilding your marriage and learning, with your (incredibly forgiving and wonderful) husband to meet each others needs. You have a chance to start over.<BR>As for forgetting the OM... I personally hope to NEVER forget what I have done. The pain and shame that I have struggled through in the past 6 months have led to some fantastic growth spurts. I don't ever want to forget what I have done. I don't deserve that peace, and never will- it's a scar I shall bear and when ever I feel my will is lacking, I'll look upon that old wound and remember, and gain stregnth from it.<BR>Look forward, my friend, for that is where the futur is. And whatever you felt you had with OM, pales in comparison to what you can have with you Husband!<BR> <BR>deut