Okay, so here's my question to leave you all with for the weekend...<P>How much time, per week, do you spend with your spouse? Quality time. Time away from work, the kids, friends -- just the two of you.<P>I know that Harley's "His Needs" suggests no less than 15 hours per week, but I'm curious... How many do you spend?<P>I'm gonna try to keep a log just for kicks. I'll be curious to see how far off I am from the rest.<P>Have a wonderful weekend all, find some humor, have a drink, hug your kid, and...<P>Chin up!<P>--keystone

Good question...it's not fifteen hours, I guarantee...and I don't think we could even get close without including the kids.<P>We do cuddle each night as we fall asleep and that brings the warmest feelings.<P>But if I took 15 hours of the time my H is at home right now (temporarily heavy work schedule of 60 hours) the kids would be deprived of their father.<P>Our marriage is fine and we take joy in being with our children.<P>Sure, I want more, but we get what we need <P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

We also take great joy in being with our kids. We've coached their sports teams, worked at school, taken them on trips, etc. <P>But, I found that being with the kids also gives you a excuse NOT to be with one another, to avoid the obligations that each spouse has to the other.<P>My youngest kid is nine, and I can count on one hand how many times I actually got away, overnight, alone, with my wife since he was born. It's almost like work -- you just get preoccupied with it -- deliberate or not -- and before you know it, you've lost the connection.<P>I'm looking forward to some times from you all. I'm also curious on my own times.<P>--keystone

OK...point taken.<P>But here is an example. Tonight 2 of our three girls went skiing with us.<P>Our 4 year old (her third season) skied from my H's arms down the hill to mine. Her face will be a precious memory as well as how happy my H looked. This was bonding. But it wouldn't count under Harley's methods.<P>I'm uneasy with that. It is our life in its totality that makes us, "us". <P>Sure we need our private time, but at this stage in our life with our kids 14, 10 & 4, we can't be so rigid in the 15 hour idea, that we are sacrificing precious memories with them.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

This question really made me realize why<BR>perhaps my marriage isn't much of one.<BR>My answer would be zero. On average zero. Pretty much ZERO for the last year. Maybe 1 hour a week during the year prior to that. Now there were a couple of movie "dates" when I would meet him in Houston in Fall '99. I was trying to go to him since he wouldn't meet me in the middle...figuratively and literally. ZERO.<BR>A big fat round ugly ZERO! <BR>Sorry to be a downer. Just one of those nights when I can't sleep. Anticipating and dreading tomorrow...oops it's already TODAY!<BR> <BR>FHL, I know you already know how lucky you are. I want what you have someday. I thought I had it; but, lost it somewhere along the way. I long to find it again. What you described about your little girls face when she skiied from her Daddy's arms touched my heart. I'm glad I read that before I signed off. I'm quite a big girl now(almost big 3-0) and although he's gone now, I love my Dad so much and treasure memories of him. I'm so glad your family is whole and those girls have their Daddy around! Congrats! <BR> <P>------------------<BR>For I know the thoughts I think<BR>toward you, saith the Lord,<BR>thoughts of peace, not of evil,<BR>to give you an expected end.<BR>Jeremiah 29:11<p>[This message has been edited by Kyra (edited January 15, 2000).]

Kyra, you spoke my words. We might have spent a hour or two together in the last year or two. That doesn't count the time we spent LBing. Good news today. He came home and was NICE!!! makes me wonder what he's up to? <P>One of his good friends who encouraged divorce moved away this week. That's one less LB to overcome. Things are looking better by the minute. I'm still reading Plan A, thinking of ways to start. Maybe a quiet dinner with music and candle light?

Ummmmmm.... I'd better not tell how much Suse and I spend together right now. Some of you all might think we're baaaad parents! Then again, some of you might get jealous!<P>Truth in jest, for sure. Suse and I have spent ALOT of time together this year. Waaaaaaay more that the rest of our life together. And, more than a balanced family life might tolerate. Yep, we've got two young boys who need time. We both work. I travel upwards to 1/3 of my work time.<P>My point is this: the healing and flowering our our relationship DEMANDED that time. If we'd not spent it, we would definitely not be where we are. Did we neglect other obligations? Yep. There's always a price to pay, eh?<P>Our family is built on the fundamental rock of our relationship. When that rock had crumled away almost to nothingness, it was time to get out the heavy equipment and put in the time to reconstruct. That's what we did. And... we can surely see it in the faces and behaviour of our kids. The atmosphere is soooo much better around here than 18 months ago.<P>Food for thought.

Have to agree with Duncanmac on this one. The time that our marriage was most in jeopardy we spent VERY LITTLE to NONE together. Now it's at least 10 hours a week. We put the kids to bed (13,9,6 at home and 19 away at college) and then spend at least 1 1/2 to 2 hours together without anyone else interrupting. We might not say much (too exhausted trying to get to this point) but it's a nice (as my H would say) "melting together" time before we just turn off for the night. I think it's necessary.....if you do nothing more than sit together listening to music or cuddle, it's your time to realize that this is where the two of you belong. Now,,,,,,,say a prayer that when CJ (Chick Jr. it's finally a boy!) comes in May that we still find this time! If not I think I will got nuts!!! Maybe we intended to make things work we put this down (I think I remember it) in our plan that we put together to make this marriage work! Anyhow, God Bless!<P>------------------<BR>Chick's <BR>Bren<P>You won't see things until your ready to not be blind!

I think that Duncans post could have been mine. My wife and I spend loads of time together usually just the two of us. We found through all of this that we were so busy with other things (meeting others needs) that we negleted each other. We recently had a discussion about her needing some time for herself. It was a little hard for me to take but I think this is needed for her. We agreed that we wont let it get out of balance again. She just felt like some house-cleaning and other small things were not getting done and this was bugging her and I promised to help more and do the little things that I can. Anyway the biggest change since discovery has been the amount of time we spend together and that has really helped us to communicate and know each others feelings. Off to church now----together-----<BR>Greg

We're below the 15 also, but sporadically hit it more often now. I know that I feel better about our marriage when we spend that time together. We've been through that "two ships passing" phase quite often.<P>I think DMac is right about the marital relationship being the fundamental rock of the family. In my mind, the 15 hours is somewhat arbitrary, however it is small enough to accomplish, but large enough to make you work for it. It forces the couple prioritize their time to assure that the "together" time is had.<P>God Bless<BR>Enlightened<P>

Intimacy has probably (I don't want to say never) not been a problem in our relationship. We just lost sight of each other's other needs. Thank God we are trying to fulfill those in each other now.<P> To make a long story short everyone around us can see in us what it means to spend time together for the purpose of meeting our needs. You can't put a price tag on that look in her eyes or the feelings our children have to see their mom and dad in love.<P> To give you the hours per day or week is easy to do but not very easy to live, but we must set aside the time for each other to make something better than what we had. We set aside at least an hour and a half in the morning before we get up just to say a prayer together and say I LOVE YOU to each other. Then we cuddle and ........... or whatever. All we had to do to accomplish this time together was to set the alarm for an earlier wake up call. Usually we are awake at least a half hour before the alarm sounds. In the evening we try to lie in bed and just talk to each other about whatever is on our minds and again say a prayer for the gift God has given us and an I LOVE YOU before we go to sleep (hopefully by ll o'clock). Roughly figuring that gives us about 5 hours sleep at night (which is plenty if you are at peace with each other and rest accordingly).<P> We spend at least six hours a week in recreational companionship including one or two nights out to enjoy a lite dinner with each other. <P> Breakfast together each morning is very special for us. Usually I prepare while she gets ready for work then we say a prayer again and enjoy our meal. Sounds like we pray a lot. We do and we take turns. It is something we never took time to do before and it really means so much to hear what we pray for and believe me it is not material.<P> Weekends again are special and we try to sleep in (at least 6 AM). Then it is her turn to do the breakfast and the dishes. We usually go to church each Saturday afternoon and at least on one Sunday each month.<P> Yes, our children are out of the house and they do know to call before they come to visit. We may be selfish as a couple now in the time we make for us, but considering the times in our past that each of us were selfish makes it all worthwhile.<P> Total hours per week = 30 (conservatively)<BR>____________________________________________<P>It's the little things we do for each other that mean so much!<BR>

My wife and I are a little short of the 15 hours that Dr. Harley suggests. I think the most important thing that has happened to us is the fact that in reading "Surviving an Affair", we realized that we needed to spend more time together and work on us. I really allowed a lot of my time to spread out very thin on other interests. This really took something away from our marriage.<P>To make a long story short, we have started doing a lot more together. One of my top ENs was Recreational Compaionship and one of her top ENs was Conversation. We try to take a walk (about 45 mins.) everyday together which gives us time to talk and hold hands and just be alone. My D was, and still is, my recreational sports buddy, but now my W goes with me whenever she can. We try to spend a lot more time cuddling and doing things around the house together. We are starting to go out more, just the two of us, and we are planning on a weekend getaway sometime in February.<P>I think if we add it all up, on average, the time spent on "US" would be about 7 to 8 hours per week. Yes I know we are short of the 15 hours, but things are getting a lot better. Time together is important.<P>FS<P><BR>Good Grief I can't typpeee or speell<BR>[This message has been edited by firestorm (edited January 16, 2000).]<p>[This message has been edited by firestorm (edited January 16, 2000).]

keystone, <P>Your struggle to find your way through this mess is not uncommon. After discovery, "what is the right amount of time" becomes warped. The betrayed wants more time, the betrayer wants less. I suppose 15 hours is a target; I'm not sure. I think the point is that you refocus your attention back to your marriage.<P>As with most folks here, our marriages were dieing aslow death. To immediatly pour a bunch of time on a struggling marriage, may drown those involved. It's a process keystone. You start over. I suffocated my wife upon discovery with huge helpings of time which pushed hereven further away. <P>You take baby steps. You start talking. You start to get to know one another again. You start dating again. You start touching again. It's a long road back (very long for some). There is no clear path and most often we try things that set us back. But, the key is you stay focused. <P>For me and my wife right now, I'd guess we probably spend an hour or more just talking each day. I am to the point where I gave her lots of touch (back rubs, foot rubs, hair rubs) everyday probably an average of 45 minutes a day just touching her. Throw in some dates and just hanging out together (watching TV, listening to music, reading together, etc); I don't know maybe add in another 5-8 hours a week or more. I think you should not exclude kids in the time if you have them. You are a family and time as a family is important too. <P>To give you an idea of how far we have come, 14 months ago I think I probably talked to my wife about 1-2 minutes a day. We rarely touched one another. Dating was not a priority. It's awful when I think about it. <P>Keystone, I don't know where you are inthis mess, but if your wife is anything like mine, she'll tell you when your going over board. As you become friends again, the time together grows in proportion.<P>Take care,<P>SHA

Well, Dunc beat me to it, but I just had to vouch for the importance of that time together. Which we had most definitely neglected to implement throughout much of our marriage ("and the rest, as they say, is history" ).<P>On most of the nights that Dunc is not away, we have what our very astute 6-yr old son dubbed "Romance Time" (this kid is an old soul in a tiny package): this is a bottle of wine in the living room, some hors d's, candles lit (very important!), favorite music shuffling on CD. Kids are bopping back & forth between us and family room. Dinner gets slid in there somewhere. Suse is often "foofed" (as in "foofed-up", meaning showered, blow-dried, scented, wearing something comfy yet elegant (this is the time for silk or cashmere), and a *killer* pair of heeled slides! )(I have nice ankles & feet. It's all I have left right now . Dunc calls me Imelda)(I also do this when Dunc is coming home late from a trip - beats the hell out of being greeted in sweats!) I call it "finding my Inner Bimbo" *snort!*. My Inner Bimbo had been sadly neglected for years. Lack of self-confidence. Ladies! Seek her out! Find her!! She's a blast! <P>Anyway, as Dunc mentioned, spending time together has been made a top priority in our lives. We probably do hit the 15-hour mark more often than not. We also try to get out with a sitter once a week. The stuff that has been jettisoned to do it is mostly mindless TV watching & mindless net-surfing (with time left for MB, o'course! ) Our marriage *is* the bedrock on which our family is built. And guess what - both our kids are doing much better, less acting-out etc. I think they feel more secure, more sure that their world is safe and under-control by adults who love them *and each other*.<P>Anyway, for us it was a matter of re-adjusting our priorities. We've found each other to be excellent company! We've had more laughs and more conversation and more fun together in the last year than in the 15 years before that. We wondered why it seemed so hard to do before. As Nike says - "Just Do It".<P>------------------<BR>~suse~<BR>Rome wasn't built in a day.<P><BR>[This message has been edited by suse (edited January 16, 2000).]<p>[This message has been edited by suse (edited January 16, 2000).]

Although we didn't spend 15 hours together without the kids (I think that is absolutely ridiculous with six children) we probably spent 7 or so hours a week talking and going places together right up until the morning he announced that he wanted a divorce. We had been spending at least that much quality time together for years, and it didn't make one bit of difference, apparently. What was declining during the year preceeding his leaving was time spent with the kids on his part. He seemed perfectly willing to spend time with me - but he became increasingly withdrawn from the children, and had lost interest in taking the family as a whole anywhere, especially if it cost money.

My H & I spend approx. 21 hours or more per week alone with each other. It is usually after our 2 very young kids go to bed. We spend time talking, cuddling, and watching tv together. Once a month, if we can get a babysitter, we go to a movie & dinner. We don't live near any family, and we only have 1 friend, so getting a babysitter is difficult.<P>The time that we spend together now, sure is a drastic change compared to when our marriage was on the brink of disaster.<P>

Having no kids makes it easier.<P>But I've basically rearranged my life so I can spend as much time with my H as possible. I don't go out to see my friends very often anymore. I've kind of put the brakes on my career, because his is going full-blast, and SOMEONE has to keep the home fires burning.<P>H leaves early in the morning and works a 10-12 hour day, every day, so time together is at a premium. Usually I make it a point to sit and watch TV with him till he goes to sleep, then I do my writing and stuff afterwards. Sometimes I stay up too late, and then crash early the next night.<P>Sometimes it's hard, but I like to think it's worth it.

Yes, I'm still lurking, and this was too good to pass up. This reminds me, I've been meaning to log the time because I think we're pretty close to 15 but not sure.<P>As some have already said, we've spent more time in the 21/2 months since discovery than the last 5 years. It used to be hard to get him to turn off the cell phone and 'puter at night. Now I have to watch out I'm not on MB during "our" time. But the biggest mistake we made for 5 years was equating him being home with the "family" being the same thing. It's not.<P>According to Harley, it's 15 hrs + another 15 for the kids. Like DMac, right now the kids are getting a bit short changed, AND THEY ARE DOING BETTER THAN EVER. I really do believe love and peace between h and I is the cornerstone of the whole family.<P>I see everyone works out the time differently. We have a date night at least once/wk. I've had to loosen the purse strings and pay for this, but it is worth it. That's one night we're not sharing just tired time. This weekend the in-laws were over, and we got away some Saturday and Sunday. We actually talked for four straight hours! For us, instead of taking baby steps, I think we are trying to go for it. The sad thing is I would have killed for this time a few months ago, now it is often painful. While I do try to avoid LBs, I need to allow for more fun time. I'm always wanting everything solved now.<P>My h travels too like DMac. Since the EMA occurred on his travel, I really have a hard time with him going. At the same time, we think we will finally have someone to leave the kids with so I can go on two trips in Feb. Just the two of us! I've taken the kids many, many times in the past, but this is much better.

I think we got to remember that quality time has to be viewed as quality by both spouses to count.<P>For my H, 4 hours of talking would be torture, but 4 hours on the slopes would be heaven.<P>Early on I would think we made progress when we were talking everything out (which was next to impossible with my H). He just wanted to "do" things together. (Recreationally) I realize now that none of the talking helped him feel one additional drop of love for me, but all the playing did.<P>Of course making our home and relationship safe with Plan A stuff made it all possible.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

You've all made me sad. But it's good to see that so many of you are making that effort to spend time together!<BR>This is my #1 issue with our marriage. H thinks that being home equates to spending time with me. I started counseling a month ago, (alone) and we put together a plan to schedule date nights. I've been keeping track of how we spend our time since Dec 27th. He's been working late a lot (we have no kids) and that's fine, as long as he balances his free time. So far he's spent 16.5 hrs at the bar with friends and 9.5 with me. Oh, sorry, we rented a movie Fri, guess I'll add in another couple hrs. <BR>He just doesn't get it. So no, not even close to the 15 hrs. If our dates went accordingly, and we ate dinner together every night, we'd have close to 10 though. I think we really need to make this effort, but he hasn't seen this yet. Maybe it will be too late if he does.<BR>Anyway, I think the rought times are the most important to spend together. I look forward to the day when I have soemone to cuddle with.