My wife of almost 19 years left me 3 months ago for a man she met in the chat rooms. She had been having an affair for about 3 months prior to that, so she had a big emotional head start on me. Our 13 yo daughter is with me. I cannot get her to go to counseling with me (I am going alone). She's said several times it's over but other times she says she's not sure. I did manage to get her to agree to wait a year.<P>I've tried everything I can think of (even not trying!). Right now, I am letting her "find out who she really is and what she really wants", but it's hard. I am feeling more and more resentful that none of my emotional needs are being met. It's long past being about the infidelity, it's now about the abandonment. <P>There's a lot more to it, but what it boils down to is: I want her back! <P>Thanks

Welcome to Marriage Builders. I'm really sorry for the reason you are here.<BR>There's a welcome wagon that will probably be along shortly. It will give you links to info on the site. <BR>Keep posting more about your story and the people here will help you by giving advice and prayers.<BR>Things are a little slow on weekends but don't get discouraged by that. We are all here.<BR>The best way to get started is by starting with Plan A, one of Dr. Harley's concepts.<BR>Good luck to you,<BR>Mitzi

Welcome to MB. This is the right place to be to learn how to rebuild your marriage. Right now it may seem like there's no hope, but read, read, read, and you'll find some amazing success stories here! <P>I hesitate to give advice, if I knew the right answers, I wouldn't be in the position I'm in with my marriage problems. I don't want to pass on my mistakes in the form of advice. <P>Have you been thru the site or did you just discover the forum? There is some great infomation and someone will post the links for you soon.<P>Good Luck, Keosha<P>

td,<BR>Sorry to find you here.<P>The first thing you must do if you want to save your marriage is forget about your needs for the time being. You must work on providing your wife with a feeling of safety if she decides to return to the family. Right now she is being totally selfish and does not want to hear about your needs. This will only serve as justification for her to continue her affair.<P>You must go about it as if its the first time you met her and were trying to get her interested in you.<P>Secondly, you need to find out why needs you weren't fulfilling. Most guys is with lack of communication and affection. What ever the weaknesses are you must work on these and demonstrate to her that you are changing.<P>Thirdly, get Harleys book, "Surviving an Affair." You may think you are in a unique situation but there are probably only a few details that are different.<P>Forth, get counseling for yourself and your daughter. This has helped me immensely. et yourself some type of support group as you will need support.<P>Fifth, keep posting and reading here. There are a lot of good, knowledgeable people here that are more than willing to help.<P>Sixth, trust in the Lord. Bring everything to him. My relgion has helped me thru this mess. While my marriage wasn't saved, I am coming out a better, stronger person on the other side.<P>Seventh, Don't believe what she tells you about, loving you, but not being in love with you, he's her soulmate, etc. Everyone on this board has heard or said these words.<P><BR>Again, keep posting. Vent here, not at your w as it does not help.<P>God Bless,<P>Bob

Hi,<BR>If you have time I recommend doing a search<BR>on posts by CHRIS(CA123). When I read your<BR>introduction, it reminded me of the situation this gentleman is in. CHRIS may be able to offer some insight on how to best help your daughter, he's got 2 of his own. While he may be in a similar situation, I don't want to dismiss EVERYONE else who is here and the help they have and will offer. While I'm sorry you're here, you've found a great place. Welcome.<P>------------------<BR>For I know the thoughts I think<BR>toward you, saith the Lord,<BR>thoughts of peace, not of evil,<BR>to give you an expected end.<BR>Jeremiah 29:11

A warm welcome to MB from someone who found himself in the same situation not long ago. Found out almost 2 months ago that my wife of 24+ years had been having an affair for about a year. We seperated about 3 weeks ago,and while its hard to be alone I have been able to use this time for self reflection and study. The people on this site are a wealth of information and support and can help guide you through this difficult time. I have also found reading the books by the Harleys and others listed elsewhere at this site extremely valuable in laying out a sound plan to win back my wife.<BR>My heart goes out to you, but you do not have to face this alone. Welcome <BR> GALE

Welcome <B>td2000</B>, to the Marriage Builders - Infidelity Forum.<P>The following is a semi-standard welcome wagon speil that tries to get you going on the right steps... The underlined words are quick "links" to other pages at this site and should prove to be helpful! <P>The people here represent both betrayed spouses and betrayers(waywards) alike and the occasional Other Woman/Man/Person (OW/OM/OP).<BR><B>All</B> of us are really here to try and build or rebuild our marriages... and we are trying to use principles and concepts that are espoused by Dr. Willard Harley of Marriage Builders(MB).<P>There is a wealth of information here at this site, starting from the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/" TARGET=_blank>Marriage Builder's Home Page</A>.<P>If you're new to the ideas being presented here at MB start off with <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3000_intro.html" TARGET=_blank>Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts</A>.<P>Many of us need to start immediately working on our marriages and a <B>sound</B> understanding of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A and Plan B</A> is crucial! As mnetioned by others... <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A> is where you must start!<P>You'll see a barrage of "terms" which you might guess the meaning of... but an alternative is to look up what they mean at this site... Words like (click on them to find out):<BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Busters</A>, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3200_love.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Bank</A>, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.html" TARGET=_blank>Emotional Needs</A>, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3550_give.html" TARGET=_blank>Giver and Taker</A>, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3500_policy.html" TARGET=_blank>The Policy of Joint Agreement(POJA)</A>.<P>You'll need to learn more about, not just marriage building... but self building too! The learning isn't going to happen overnight though... look at the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8100_article.html" TARGET=_blank>Articles</A> and <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5525_qa.html" TARGET=_blank>Infidelity Q&A</A>.<BR>The real learning is best aided by obtaining some of the books from the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6000_bookstore.html" TARGET=_blank>MB Bookstore</A>... of most important for those who have affairs in progress, or soon to be, is <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6070_sa.html" TARGET=_blank>"Surviving An Affair"</A> by Dr. Willard Harley. <B>This is the 'bible' for this forum.</B><BR>Other books can be very useful as well... like <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6020_needs.html" TARGET=_blank>"His Needs, Her Needs"</A>, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6030_love.html" TARGET=_blank>"Love Busters"</A>, and <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6010_give.html" TARGET=_blank>"Give & Take: The Secret to Marital Compatibility"</A>.<BR>There will be many other good books that the MB people will recommend... take their advice... they've been around. There is a post that lists many of these non-Harley book recommendations... <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/010158.html" TARGET=_blank>Books... books... books... (again)</A>.<P>Most of all... you will find <B>compassion</B> and <B>love</B> here. No judging... no demeaning... no malice here!<BR>The people here have all had their lives thrown into a whirlwind of despair, confusion, and sadness.<BR>We've all experience gut wrenching emotions that we though could never exist, in anyone's idea of humanity.<BR>Feelings of hatred, love, disillusionment, envy, rejection, emptiness, <B>deep depression</B>, and on and on...<P>Just the books and facts aren't going to get you through it all... not without <B>support</B>. That's where <B>we</B> come in! <B>We</B> care... because <B>we</B> know how it feels. Believe it... <B>You are <I>not</I> alone</B>! <BR>Come to this forum to vent... to cry... to laugh (a little)... to express your feelings... to advise others... or just to get away!<BR>You're probably going through H*!! right now... don't go it alone... remember... <B>you are <I>not</I> alone</B>! <P>There is never any guarantee to save all marriages... life doesn't work that way, unfortunately.<BR>We can, and do guarantee, to give you help... to build back many vital aspects of your life and sanity. <P>Post... Post... Post... Reply... Reply... Reply... READ! READ! READ!<P>I've been speaking in behalf of some dear friends... as well as some complete strangers too..., when I've used <B>"we"</B>!<BR>But... if you're here... join in with them... they <B>will</B> join in with you. <B>We</B> do not always agree with each other on how to handle situations... but each of us is offering to you advice base on individual experiences. Search out those people on the forum that have experiences similar to yours... and ask... ask... ask! <P>Jim<BR>---------------------------------<BR>Where two or more are gathered...

Thanks for all the replies. I've looked around the site, and saw a lot of good things.<P>As with many such problems, ours began as a lack of communications, then MIScommunication. I'm not particularly bashful, so if anybody wants to read it, I've put up a sort of journal at <A HREF="http://www.bright.net/~banjo2/journal" TARGET=_blank>www.bright.net/~banjo2/journal</A> that anyone who cares can read and comment on.<P>I think can make a good case for saving our marriage, once I can find a way to get her to the "bargaining table". I think the major barrier to this is her guilt at having broken up HIS marriage. And of course, he attempts to thwart all of my efforts. The difference is he took her away behind my back but I have to take her back right from under his nose.<P>I've looked at plan A and Plan B. I've been doing most of the things in plan A since we split, and I'm proud of some of the changes I've made, but I think she might not believe they're genuine, or that they'll last.<P>Plan B is a little tougher. I cannot avoid all contact with her, we have a daughter together. And every time I see her, it takes every ounce of my will power to not start grovelling at her feet, even WITH the medication.<P>I'll look around some more. Maybe something will click. I just know that my marriage is important to me, and right now it is worth any suffering by to me to save it.<P>Thanks again everyone. It's great to know that I'm not rowing this big boat called life all by myself.<P>Tony

Tony,<P>Just a recommendation...<BR>If you think your W would be upset by the web site you created (journal)... take it off.<P>Having your life (and your W's) open for public scrutiny may be a big-time <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Buster</A>.<P>We do want to know your story... it helps with advice... just not all in one place. If your W is now or in the future computer savy... it could hurt you!<P>Just think about it! <P>Jim

Gee, I never thought about that!<P>I guess I automatically trust unless given a reason not to. I'll take it down and talk to her about it. Thanks.<P>Anyway. The short version:<P>My wife and I have been married for 18½ years. Our daughter, is 13.<P>It all began when we got the Internet last Christmas (98). My wife really got hooked on the chat rooms. At first we did it together, but I just couldn’t get interested in it. It was too spontaneous. But I knew that she liked it, and she didn’t have that many friends so I was genuinely happy for her. And she did seem happier, she talked about this person or that one the way you’d talk about characters in a soap opera. Even when she started chatting with other men, I didn’t say anything. I wasn’t going to let my petty little insecurities spoil her fun. I wasn’t worried. I trusted her. After all, it’s only a computer program and the people on the other end weren’t real. <P>But a couple months later they started to get real. We drove to Lancaster to have lunch with one of her Internet friends. She was a nice lady. We had dinner and went bowling with a local couple and their daughter. Again, they were nice people. So I had some insecurities, but no real fear when she started having lunch with people without me. She had lunch with several people, men and women, and I trusted her. After all, she told me about all of them, and she DID seem happier. Heck, she even sometimes took our daughter with her, or one of my nieces, so what’s the harm, right?<P>Maybe I should have suspected something when she was gone half the night, and came home with two flat tires on the van, but I didn’t. She told me about a friend she met whose wife was recovering from surgery, and could she go help her out while her husband was at work. It would be three or four days. I said sure, that’s what friends do, and I was glad she was making friends. A couple of weeks later she told me this friend’s wife had overdone it and ripped out her stitches and could she go again. Sure, I said. When she came back, she surprised me with shaved genitals. Maybe I should have suspected something, but she told me that the friend’s wife had suggested it, so I didn’t. Nor did I think anything was amiss when she suddenly started getting more aggressive in bed. In fact I kinda liked it.<P>One day she just left. Said she had to think. I didn’t know what was going on, maybe she thought she was missing out on life. I found out where she was and went and got her. I told her I loved her and we would work this out. I really had no idea what was going on, but I wanted to fix it whatever it was. A week later her friend came to visit. He seemed like a nice guy. He took our daughter to the high school parking lot to practice driving, and he went with us to the go-cart track, and we played putt-putt golf. He was a truck driver, and, I don’t know, I felt kinda sorry for him, being away from his family and all, and my wife said he’s a nice guy, so I had no problem letting him stay the night in our spare room.<P>A few days later she left again. She said in a note that she’s where she wants to be. I didn't know what that meant, but figured she’d calm down in a couple days but after a week I went to get her again. Then she told me. I was devastated, but wanted to keep my cool, so I said I can forgive her. She came home with me. I talked to a couple of friends at work, and one of them recommended this Pastor. We went to see him. He had us list options and advantages and disadvantages of each. We were to do this, then decide which option was best, then get back to him.<P>My wife left again. I begged and pleaded but it wasn’t doing any good. He came and I decided to play it cool again, and helped him pack her stuff in his car. My nieces were over. One of them told me there were lots of guys my wife slept with, one of them even in our bed. I don’t know if it’s all true or not, but I suspect at least some of it is.<P>On the day of my daughters parade, I talked to her and told her to just leave him and come home. When she said no, I got mad and told her that whatever happens was all her fault (it was a veiled suicide threat. I really don’t know if I could actually do it or not, but I was thinking about it... partly as a way to end my pain, and partly to get even with her).<P>The other day, a lady left a message on the answering machine for my wife. It was in kinda of a threatening tone of voice saying my wife had a lot of conversations with her husband, and that she better call her back or she would “do what I have to do”. I tried to call her a few days later, I don’t know why, maybe to maybe get some information that would help me get my wife back somehow. But when I called a man answered, and I lost my nerve. I was afraid I’d find out something I didn’t want to know. (She later told me it was a guy she used to talk to several months ago, and that he took off from his home and was gone a couple of days, and that his wife looked at their phone bill and got our number and called thinking he was with my wife.)<P>I’ve tried and am still trying to save my marriage, maybe even my life. I love my wife with all of my being and right now I’m not sure how it’s going to turn out. She sent me an E-mail Friday morning (November 5) that looked promising (to me at least), but Saturday when she talked to our daughter, she mentioned that her and and her boyfriend were visiting his sister (Isn’t that the kind of thing you do when you’re getting serious with a guy?). I don’t know if she’s leading him on until she breaks with him and comes home. Or maybe she’s doing this to me on purpose, to try to make me make her decision for her, either by telling her it’s over, or by ending my life. Does she even care which? Are they having a good laugh over my pain? Are they trying to drive me to suicide?<P>A few things about me that the reader should know. I am intensely loyal, not just to my wife, but to everybody I care about. And I think I'm a "giver". I like that role. The most important desire I have is to be needed. Also I care a great deal about fairness. And I believe strongly in forgiveness. There is nothing that cannot be forgiven if the person is truly sorry, and there is nothing that cannot be atoned for. I also feel like a teacher. Mistakes in my life can be a lesson to others. Lastly, when I was a teenager, my life was bad. I was headed for big trouble. But I turned my life around and made it something I am very proud of. I am proud of my marriage too, and I would be prouder yet if I can overcome these current difficulties. Last year, if you would have asked me what my worst fear was, I would have said being accused (and tried, convicted, and imprisoned) of something I didn’t do. I was wrong. Now I am realizing my worst fear, that my family and my life are falling apart, and that I am alone.<P>I don’t know what to do. I want to keep talking to her, but I don’t want to push her away. How long do I keep trying? What will I do if she doesn’t come home? Why do I love her so much that I’m willing to let her hurt me so much?<P>(Since I wrote this, I've been in a mental hospital, been placed on anti-depressants, and been in therapy. There were a lot of very dark days between then and now. I'm mostly OK now. Just the occasional dark cloud passes over. In my favor are lots of friends. I took a chance, and opened my life and my heart, and they responded, big time. I've been a giver all of my adult life, and made a lot of friends, but I didn't truly understand what friendship was all about until I became the recipient of it. It felt so good to realize that so many people thought I was worthy of their outpouring of goodwill. It ranks in the top five of important things that have happened to me. I guess I got caught up in it and started thinking everybody was my friend. I met a really nice lady in a usenet group and the way our stories matched up, I thought maybe she could help me, so I posted this on my website for her to look at and maybe give me some advice, and it sorta snowballed from there. I'll take it off immediately.)<BR><p>[This message has been edited by td2000 (edited January 16, 2000).]