I've posted part of this last week on the EN board, but looks like I was in wrong place!!! My husband told me on Dec 27 that he was thinking of leaving (after telling me a couple of weeks before that he wanted to see a counselor & work on relationship). We talked a lot (he stayed here after all) and have both realized we have done crummy job of taking care of each other...he has not done a good job of making me feel loved and important in his life, and I've not done a good job in the past of meeting his need for<BR>enthusiastic sex. Once we started talking and crying and hugging, and getting rid of the old resentments, all I could think of was sex with him, but then he didn't think we should (after a few days I convinced him, and the past week has been VERY SEXY). Now, just yesterday I find out he fell in love with a co-worker a while back. They do not see each other often at work (work in different areas), but have had good lunch conversations, and feel a close rapport (he even goes so far as to say a kind of psychic bond). No sex. A couple of months ago at a convention, they danced together & obviously had interest in each other. Afterwards, he ended up apologising for making her uncomfortable, but confessed he had quite a crush on her...at that time, she was planning to leave company soon, and he didn't think they'd be seeing each other again. She is married, with a family, and he says she told him to put that energy into working on his marriage (oddly, I feel almost like sending her a thank-you note). Since then, he says they've been avoiding each other at work (her move has been delayed, apparently). But, he obviously thinks about her, and still feels "in-love" with her (not with me, tho he "loves" me. He says he is with me, bcs he wants to rebuild our marriage. I am having a hard time with the idea that he'd rather be with her (which he he does not deny). He says they never even kissed (of course, on Dec 27 and once since then when I asked he denied being in love with anyone else...but I do believe him; I think the lie was eating at him). I am grateful it never went to a physical affair. I am grateful he is here, and willing to work with me. I do love him. I want to kick him one minute, and make love with him the next. Am I crazy? How can I quit thinking about how he'd rather be with her? I know this EA probably seems mild to most of ya'll, but I HATE THIS!!!<BR>Kathi

Welcome <B>Kathi</B>, to the Marriage Builders - Infidelity Forum.<P>There is nothing <B>mild</B> about any kind of an affair...<P>The EN forum is good to... for "affair" specific questions <B>this</B> is the place to be... Welcome again... always wish it could be under better circumstances...<P>I have a "welcome wagon spiel" I give to those new on this forum (newbies)...<P>It has a lot of helpful hints... and a lot of quick "links"... by clicking on the underlined words....<P>Here you go...<P>The people here represent both betrayed spouses and betrayers(waywards) alike and the occasional Other Woman/Man/Person (OW/OM/OP).<BR><B>All</B> of us are really here to try and build or rebuild our marriages... and we are trying to use principles and concepts that are espoused by Dr. Willard Harley of Marriage Builders(MB).<P>There is a wealth of information here at this site, starting from the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/" TARGET=_blank>Marriage Builder's Home Page</A>.<P>If you're new to the ideas being presented here at MB start off with <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3000_intro.html" TARGET=_blank>Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts</A>.<P>Many of us need to start immediately working on our marriages and a <B>sound</B> understanding of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A and Plan B</A> is crucial! From previous posting on the EN forum you may have heard it...now I'm saying it clearly.... start immediately with <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A>.<P>You'll see a barrage of "terms" which you might guess the meaning of... but an alternative is to look up what they mean at this site... Words like (click on them to find out):<BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Busters</A>, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3200_love.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Bank</A>, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.html" TARGET=_blank>Emotional Needs</A>, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3550_give.html" TARGET=_blank>Giver and Taker</A>, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3500_policy.html" TARGET=_blank>The Policy of Joint Agreement(POJA)</A>.<P>You'll need to learn more about, not just marriage building... but self building too! The learning isn't going to happen overnight though... look at the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8100_article.html" TARGET=_blank>Articles</A> and <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5525_qa.html" TARGET=_blank>Infidelity Q&A</A>.<BR>The real learning is best aided by obtaining some of the books from the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6000_bookstore.html" TARGET=_blank>MB Bookstore</A>... of most important for those who have affairs in progress, or soon to be, is <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6070_sa.html" TARGET=_blank>"Surviving An Affair"</A> by Dr. Willard Harley. <B>This is the 'bible' for this forum.</B><BR>Other books can be very useful as well... like <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6020_needs.html" TARGET=_blank>"His Needs, Her Needs"</A>, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6030_love.html" TARGET=_blank>"Love Busters"</A>, and <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6010_give.html" TARGET=_blank>"Give & Take: The Secret to Marital Compatibility"</A>.<BR>There will be many other good books that the MB people will recommend... take their advice... they've been around. There is a post that lists many of these non-Harley book recommendations... <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/010158.html" TARGET=_blank>Books... books... books... (again)</A>.<P>More so than any other forum at MB... you will find <B>compassion</B> and <B>love</B> here. No judging... no demeaning... no malice here!<BR>The people here have all had their lives thrown into a whirlwind of despair, confusion, and sadness.<BR>We've all experience gut wrenching emotions that we though could never exist, in anyone's idea of humanity.<BR>Feelings of hatred, love, disillusionment, envy, rejection, emptiness, <B>deep depression</B>, and on and on...<P>Just the books and facts aren't going to get you through it all... not without <B>support</B>. That's where <B>we</B> come in! <B>We</B> care... because <B>we</B> know how it feels. Believe it... <B>You are <I>not</I> alone</B>! <BR>Come to this forum to vent... to cry... to laugh (a little)... to express your feelings... to advise others... or just to get away!<BR>You're probably going through H*!! right now... don't go it alone... remember... <B>you are <I>not</I> alone</B>! <P>We can give you help... to build back many vital aspects of your life and sanity. <P>Post... Post... Post... Reply... Reply... Reply... READ! READ! READ!<P>I've been speaking in behalf of some dear friends... as well as some complete strangers too..., when I've used <B>"we"</B>!<BR>But... if you're here... join in with them... they <B>will</B> join in with you. <B>We</B> do not always agree with each other on how to handle situations... but each of us is offering to you advice base on individual experiences. Search out those people on the forum that have experiences similar to yours... and ask... ask... ask! <P>Jim<BR>---------------------------------<BR>Where two or more are gathered...

Kathi<P>No your not crazy. There isn't a woman alive who wants to share her H with another woman. My H is deeply involved in EA. Sometimes I want to beat the **** out of him. <P>(picture this headline: "110 lb woman beats 280 lb man to a pulp because he talks to friend") LOL<P>The EA isn't always seen by others the way a physical affair is. My own sister told me how lucky I am that he isn't really being unfaithful. <P>The pain is very real and sometimes very intense. It helps to have someone to talk to. Before I found this site I would talk to the cat, the dog, the broom! (and you thought you were crazy, LOL) talking to anything is better than holding it in till you explode. <P>Read everything you can find on this site. I can't tell you how much difference it has made for me in the short time I've been here.<BR>I wasn't sure if I could get past the feeling of betrayal. I didn't know if I wanted to save the marriage. I've learned so much from reading the posts here and the articles on the MB site. I'm now working on my Plan A. I can already see improvements.<P>Good Luck,<P>Keo<P>

I am just afraid I'll always feel like his second choice...like if circumstances had been different, he would have chosen to leave. I feel like screaming & crying & throwing things this morning. But that would probably scare the kids.

Kathi,<BR> If you hadn't written your post I would have sworn I wrote it. Your story is so similar to mine it's scary. Sept of 98 my H of 20 years told me he was unhappy & wanted a seperation. This came out of the blue to me but he told me he was unhappy for awhile. After a week of talking & crying he decided to stay & work on our marraige. A great month followed. LOTS of lovemaking, going out on dates & talking. Fast foward 1 month--he came home from work in a funk & I just had to thought to look in his wallet. Low & behold I found a note he had written @ a female coworker @ his "feelings" @ her. Talk @ my heart being broken in a million pieces-I never want to feel that way again. We had a huge arguement & I accused him of having an affair w/her. Swears on his fathers grave nothing ever happened between them. He said he could talk to her @ his childhood, friends, our relationship, health matters, etc, etc. He told me he asked her if he could see her outside of work/she said no. She has a live in boyfriend, who she was having problems w/but wanted to work it out. I'll give her credit for not carring on w/my h. I too feel if she would have been willing he would have been more then able to give up on us & our family. Even after 15 months I have very bad days when I just cry my eyes out knowing that the man I married could ever have feelings for someone other than me. He left that job 6 months ago & I have the relief that he no longer sees her every day-or at all for that matter. Just take it one day at a time & it will get better. Take care.<P>Keeping the faith,<P>Cassie <P>PS. You are NOT crazy--Emotions do crazy things to you.

Cassie--<BR>Thanks so much for your reply...We are both very willing to work on our marriage. I am trying to be hopeful, but I do not want to go thru life feeling like a second choice .<BR> I'm hoping we can get back to being really "in love" someday...Aside from the bad days, how do you and your H feel now? Anyone else? Do you think this is possible?

Kathi,<BR> Glad I could be of some help to you. I never stopped loving my H but he said all the usual--You've(me)changed since we got married, you changed after having the children, I love you but I'm not in love w/you, etc. After discovery his favorite saying when I would be depressed was "I F***ed up"--he sure did. Time, talking, doing things together, even the tears helped to bring us back together as a couple. We are back to being happy, more thoughtful of each others feelings & VERY much in love. IT WILL GET BETTER. Don't give up--your life together is worth saving.<P>Keeping the faith,<P>Cassie

Kathi,<BR> Glad I could be of some help to you. I never stopped loving my H but he said all the usual--You've(me)changed since we got married, you changed after having the children, I love you but I'm not in love w/you, etc. After discovery his favorite saying when I would be depressed was "I F***ed up"--he sure did. Time, talking, doing things together, even the tears helped to bring us back together as a couple. We are back to being happy, more thoughtful of each others feelings & VERY much in love. IT WILL GET BETTER. Don't give up--your life together is worth saving.<P>Keeping the faith,<P>Cassie

My husband was also involved in an emotional affair. This forum has been a tremendous support to me and I hope it will be to you too. The books that the site recommends, Surviving an Affair and His Needs Her Needs have helped me make sence of the dynamics of an affair and offer practical techniques for finding the cause of the affair. <P>My H also really enjoyed talking to this woman whom he told me openly was his confidant and best friend. Yikes! Did that hurt!!!! <P>I am trying to figure out what it was that he got out of talking to her emotionally and why he felt he could not get that from me. <P>I don't know if telling you this helps you in any way, I just wanted you to know you're not alone and that things can get better. <P>Acacia

Thanks, guys. I had a very tough day yesterday, and your words of encouragement were just what I needed. I get so angry sometimes...yes, our relationship needed work and he had every right to ask me to work with him on it, BUT HE DID NOT have the right to get emotionally entangled with someone else! Then I see how much this has all torn him up, and I just want to comfort him. I think abt him letting me go to the counselor (at his suggestion) and talk to her w/o knowing A BIG PIECE of the puzzle was that he was "in-love" with someone else!!! Didn't he think that was kinda important info??? I dk if I believe that he has told me evrything, or if I will ever feel I can trust him again. I feel sick inside... It's hard to believe that a few lunches over the last few years would've led to all this with no more encouragemnt!!! I keep wondering if there is more to the story...but he SEEMS to be truthful .<BR>Yesterday at 10 am I loved him and wanted to do whatever I could. By time to leave work, I hated him, did not want to go home and see him, didn't feel staying with him was worth the effort. After dinner I found Cassie's message -- the part where you describe you & H as VERY much in love. OK, I have hope again. Right now, hope is a pretty sickly-looking seedling (I'm a gardener ) but maybe I can feed it and it will really take root. If not, I don't know what I'll do, but I'll think of something. Thanks again, guys! <p>[This message has been edited by kam6318 (edited January 18, 2000).]

I feel your pain, although my situation's borderline (I fear that a woman is trying to entice my SO into having an EA and/or that conditions are ripe for it; see my posts under "Needed: Reality Check" and "Probably a Breach of Board Etiquette, But..."). I'm in a unique position because I was actually involved in an EA myself (as the single OW to a married man); as a result, I know EXACTLY how this is done, recognize the early signs, know the subtle manipulation when I see it, etc. I can't help but feel this is my "bad karma" come back to haunt me for falling love w/ a married man, but the main point is, because of my own experience with it, I KNOW IT WHEN I SEE IT. My SO knows about my "past" and concludes that it has made me "paranoid" and unduly suspicious of an innocent situation (like most men, he has no clue); he cannot see that the fact is that I'm uniquely qualified to see what's "really" going on here and he should therefore heed my warnings. Anyway, I completely agree that EA's are as or even MORE harmful to a union/marriage than a sexual affair; in my opinion, most men will "give away" their bodies more easily than their hearts/minds/souls, so when an emotional bond is formed with AO, it's must more serious and damaging. Good luck!

I'm going through the exact same thing with my wife. Sorry I don't have time right now to post a real reply but, know that others are out there and struggling with the same problem.<P>Just remember - choices are made everyday that affect your life - you only have control over the choices you make. Don't worry about making the right one just making the one you can live with.<BR>my heart breaks with you<BR>Erin<P>