Why couldn't I keep my mouth closed? I had to bring up sex tonight. I asked what he was feeling about it( or the lack of it) he said he didn't want to be frustrated like the last time we tried and that he had thought about sex the last few weekends but something I did turned him off and that he had to get over his hurt. This after about 5 minutes had passed since the question. I asked if there was anything I could do and he said he guessed he needs time. I told him I could give him time, but pushed it one step further and asked about his hurt, could he tell me what I did to hurt him. At that he withdrew from me and I gave up and told him goodnight and he went to sleep and I came in here to type my sad story. Wish I had stopped the conversation one question earlier. I have been doing plan A since thanksgiving and have seen progress, but we never talk about anything involving our situation and I thought it was time to try and have a calm converation about it. I guess I failed conversation 101. I guess he is still involved with her emotionally and isn't ready to talk about us. Darn , I was feeling so much better about us and myself and now this. Back to square 1. I'm so mad at myself and at him. How will we get past this if we can't talk at all? I tried to handle it differently, but to him I bet it looks likr the same old s*** different day.<BR>Lora

Lora -- Maybe my feelings on this differ from many others here, but I think you are doing the right thing. Regardless of what some think, a successful plan A <B>can</B> include talking about things like hurt. Don't be discouraged about your H being unable to talk to you about this. It took my W almost 9 months to get past shutting down everytime something unpleasant was brought up. On both sides of this equation, answers are needed and that is part of the healing process. By asking the question you did, you gave him notice that you want to know what hurts and how to fix it. This is better than trying to ignore what happened and acting as if nothing has occurred.<P>Some people just take longer to open up. Keep up the Plan A and only once in a while bring up the sensitive issues. If your H wants to re-build then at some point he will open up. It's very important that when he does for you to react in a caring, interested fashion and not let yourself drop into anger or disgust no matter what he tells you. This worked for my W as far as communication went. As in my case, even if you get this far, it doesn't mean the marriage can or will be saved, but you will feel better knowing the truth and so will you H.<P>If it's any comfort, I have been exactly where you are at now as it pertains to your frustration. It wasn't until I threw all of the frustration and anger that I was able to get W talking.<P>Good luck, hugs and keep posting.<P>--DeWayne--

Lora,<P>I have to agree w/Dewayne. One thing to keep in mind is talk about your feelings not his and when you do engage the filter between yoy brain and your mouth...in other words choose your words carefully so as not to get into disrespectful judgements, angry outbursts, or selfish demands.<P>My W knows exactly how I feel so I don't have to harp on it. This is my 180, she expects me to harp on it.<P>Are you all in counceling? Steve Harley is great. Well worth the $85 bucks.<P>Hang in there.<P>Bill<P>------------------<BR>BB<BR>

So if I understand you correctly, he never did answer your second question, right?<P>It is hard to Plan A without information, but it sounds like your H is clamming up big time.<P>I would take his answer with a grain of salt, however. He may think the sex thing has everything to do with you, but it probably has much more to do were his head is at these days.<P>Don't be too hard on yourself. If your H hates talking, just make your relationship feel safe for him. Let little nuggests of truth come out and don't jump on them. Maybe if you let him test the water a few times he'll be more open.<P>By the way. Sometimes I "talk" with my H there are lapsed silences. If I wait for a reply, sometimes he even asks why I am looking at him. <P>Interestingly enough, when he was still in phone contact with her (and I didn't know) he said their phone conversations (I thought past) were mostly long silences. (a rare volenteered nugget) Really didn't think about this until know, but he must have done this to her near the end of their contact.<P>I know it is hard.<P>Interestingly enough<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Lora,<P>Definitely not down the tubes!!!!<P>You did OK...<P>Being honest is also part of Plan A!<P>Don't beat up on yourself...<BR>1. You don't deserve it...<BR>2. Your H doesn't want to see you do it... either<BR>3. You are loved... <BR>4. You are doing better than you think!!!<P>Continue with Plan A... progess may not be seen... but it's there.<P>As far as the sex thing...<BR>maybe it's something to not so much talk about... but <B>do</B> about!<BR>Making him feel completely relaxed... and just giving him an extended foreplay session (where H does have to perform at all... foreplay only...) could lead him back...<BR>s l o w l y! lovingly...<BR>Make sure he knows you have no expectations of him to do anything... that all you want to do is give <B>him</B> some pleasure. That <B>is</B> Plan A too(meeting emotional needs)! In time he'll come around and provide for you. Just a thought.<P>Jim

Lora: This is the part that I find really tough. The part where you take the majority of the "stuff" from spouse and eat it. They don't want to talk, they don't want to listen. They really wish to be left alone. And the betrayed spouse has to take it.<P>Like I said, tough. Unfortunately it's the way it has to be for most. Not all, but most. Some say forget it, if spouse wants to work on this then they have to meet me half way. Sometimes that works, most of the time not. Right now I guess your in about what, 85% mode? Eventually it will even out and things will come out, if you are doing the Plan A then the things he has been relying on OP for will be transferred to you. 50 - 50 it's what we're all shooting for. Just remember that it'll take time and patience.<P>Good luck and God Bless<P>------------------<BR>1Co:2:4: And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:<BR>1Co:2:5: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by Paul Moyers (edited January 17, 2000).]

Lora,<P>I agree that this did not throw your PlanA down the tubes at all! He just isn't wuiote there to open up all the way. My understandingfrom Steve Harley is that you do eventually need to talk about the situation. Just for some of us on really rocky ground with the absentee S (my situation) or those that have an adverserial realtionship wuith their S, we need to avoid the negative topics to try to get them coming around a bit first.<P>Keep up the PlanA. In time you will see some softening!<P>Roll Me Away<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

I feel so much better this AM,thanks all for your kind words. My problem is it's just as hard for me to open up as for him so I have to stuggle with that at the same time as his non response. I feel that is part of the reason I've had cancer is from bottleing up my feelings probobly stemming from some abuse as a child. So while I beleive in plan A I also feel I have to work on me changing my behaviors at the same time. I really appreciated having some input from the men too. Bill, I am seeing a counseler and working on my own issues, but I may consider calling the Harleys soon. But Faith, you hit the nail on the head , I wasn't sure if he was even still awake so much time went by, I mean I'm trying to not just jump in and keep questioning him, but how much time can you wait for an answer? Do they hope we will forget that we just asked a hard question?<BR> Any way my question for you all today is should I say something this AM? I'm thinking of saying what I neglected to last night.<BR>" Thanks for being honast and sharing your feeling with me, I'm sory I pushed for more than you were willing to tell me right now." What do you think? Lora <p>[This message has been edited by Lora (edited January 17, 2000).]

Lora,<P>You said... "I told him I could give him time, but pushed it one step further and asked about his hurt, could he tell me what I did to hurt him."...<P>He probably doesn't know how to answer this... especially if he thinks it will hurt you (there is the guilt.)<P>I'd say... give it some more time...<BR>a day or two, a week, whatever...<P>Keep on making those deposits first.<P>Jim

Ok I am going to try and help here. I don't have the full picture but this is a guy perspective (well mine anyway). I am assuming both of your equipment is capable of functioning. One thing about sex is that if there is pressure to perform or to perform to a certain 'specification' thats when things get nervous.<P>A lot of people assume that sex means->intercourse->orgasm-> etc But it doesn't have to be. I think back to when I was younger and the thrill of it was not really just the end result. It was the chase, the process. Have fun, things are really stressed right now and fun is the last thing on his mind it sounds like. Guys have certain "dumb cells". Without thinking about it guys get excited and thats where we get into trouble.<P>Maybe think of ways that are not too obvious to have him notice you. (Dont go too far yet or it will be too obvious and make him uncertain) Have fun, ie take a bubble bath with a candle..ask for help scrubbing your back and ooh (thats a neat sound when he rubs a certain spot...thats a bit stiff and feels doo good when you rub it) little things. I think it adds up.. He will relax. Coming home to someone wrapped in SaranWrap is a bit obvious. <P>Anyway hope this helps<P>Hugs<P>J

Thanks again J and Jim,<BR> I'll go back to my plan A and less obvious seduction. I guess my neediness got the best of me for a night. It is hard to feel like you are putting yourself out there and getting so little encouragement. You have inspired me to continue and give us both time. Lora

Yup, just start with the little things. Make them sexy but not as though you need him..oops hes there... could you help me<P>guys like to be needed, they dont like to be told (yet) <P>patience is the hard thing for me in my plan a as well...just a different scenario.. It takes time. <P>Hugs<BR>James<P>------------------<BR>Now I know I can shine a light to find my way back home...VS

Lora, <P>I don't know if your H was a talker before his troubles ?<P>I am NOT a talker. I hold EVERYTHING in from everybody.<P>Recently, I got a kick in the butt from someone here on the forum and opened up to my current H about stuff my Ex-H had done that was eating me up. Hard to talk about stuff ....<BR>My H reacted very nicely, with empathy, to such a horrible thing I talked about. What a relief !! If I had only known how talking could help me.<P>Anyway, what I'm saying is that if your H is a non-talker, if he could, just once feel safe enough to open up, he'll learn what I did. It feels GREAT to talk. <P>Once I opened up and found whatever I said was "okay" I found I could do it more.<P>I hope your H is not like me or how I was but, if so, try with all your might to make it "okay" for him no matter what he has to say. Hopefully he'll keep talking and talking.<P>It took my H several tries at convincing me it was really, really alright to tell him things. I'm glad he didn't give up on me, your H will be too.