Hi all,
<p>My name is Val - I'm the husband - and I have been lurking as well as sticking my 2-cents in here and there. My "problem" stems from unmet needs. (Gee, where have I heard that before?)
<p>For the first several years of our marriage, my wife was fairly "adventurous" sexually. She seemed to have no problem wearing a sexy teddy once in a while and (rarely) would (Egad, how do I say this politely?) perform felatio, as long as I didn't, er, well, guess what I'm trying to say. I am happy, no, eager to do the same for her whether she reciprocates or not.
<p>Seems all this stopped about 5 years ago (we've been married 15). I would ask her to ... and she would usually vaguely decline. Last time I asked she finally said "I don't like to do that". I said "well, you used to" and she said she never liked it. Same with the sleepwear. She insists upon the less-than-sexy long t-shirt, and will never take it off for lovemaking. She says the sexy stuff is "too cold" - like I'd let her get cold. <grin>
<p>Add to that, the general frequency of our activity is low (my standards) and the creativity/variety is nil. "Just put it in, (and get it over with) or forget it" she says.
<p>Bottom line. I do plenty of things around the house that I "don't like to do". I don't need a 2nd bathroom, but I want to make her happy. I don't want to get into a "If you won't, I won't" situation, but I'm really not inspired to do "extra" things for her anymore. In fact, I get really angry and feel like an idiot for trying so hard. I've got plenty of things I'd rather do!
<p>I still love her, think she's sexy - and tell her so - and would do anything for her, EXCEPT do without her.
<p>I'm hoping some ladies, er, women, will give me some feedback!
<p>Val
<p>PS. I've bought her 2 nice (and fairly conservative) silk nightgowns from Victoria's Secret. I'd like to see them on something other than a hanger!
<p>Added after I read my post: I've just finished reading "His Needs, Her Needs" and will read "Give & Take" next. Hopefully, I will get some clues from that.
<p>More PS. I admit to having plenty of bad/undesireable habits, so please don't get the impression that I think I'm perfect. I'm just willing to do things to please her - and wanting the same treatment.
<br><p>[This message has been edited by V.]

Here's a woman opinion. Hey Val! Boring? Have you tried to change the scenery to maybe a nice upscale Hotel room? Maybe some
<br>wine, flowers, candy, a nice fire, scented candles, dinner then the hotel. My husband sounds a lot like you, but it's different when we're not at home. I was out of town on business recently, and I would talk
<br>well, you know dirty on the phone to him. Like what I was going to do to him when I got home. Well, when I got home the script changed to. I was kind of hoping he would go to sleep. He knew it and we joked about it that I was just all talk.
<p>Love making is more exciting for me than the same room the same husband all the time. I love my husband, and I only want my own
<br>husband. You know what I mean. We have more fun away, and when someone is spending the night at our house. Maybe that's your wife's problem. Maybe if you or your wife go on business trips, maybe she could join you. Sounds like you have some work to do. I hope my suggestion works. [Equality]
<p>
<br>

Val, how old is your wife? Also, is there any possibility she could be suffering from depression?
<p>terri

Thanks for the replies (Keep 'em coming!)
<p>Equality-
<br> I thought getting her sexy things from Victoria's Secret WAS something that would liven things up a bit. I can't get her candy ("I can't eat that!") I do bring her home flowers "just because" every couple of weeks. We go out to "decent" restaurants at least once a week, and "nice" places about once every two months. I'll have to look into the "nigh at a hotel" scenario.
<p>Terri -
<br> I'm almost 39, my W's 49. I don't think depression is a factor. She has a seasonal job (summers off), but even in summer, not much changes. Tired is pretty standard, but not depressed (any more than te rest of us )
<p>Anybody else want to jump in? Let 'er rip!
<p>Val

Hello Val!
<br>Since you're already going to nice restaurants on ocassions, take her out for dinner at the Marriot or Hyatt Regency, then to the room. Surprise! She thought it was just going to be dinner. Pay for the room early in the day that way you already have the key to take her up stairs. Take all the things you need to prepare the room for her. Include champage [put it on ice and don't forget the glasses], candles [have the lighter ready and make sure the candles are scented], some music and don't forget to put the lingerie in the bathroom for her to change. Leave yours on the bed to change. [if you don't have any sexy underwear, you got to go buy some] Oh, Val you have to take some lotion to give her a nice all over body rub. You said, you shop at Victoria's Secret? They have a wide selection of lotions. Some store have the ones you can eat.
<p>Wow! Looks like you may get what you want after all.
<p>Depending on the hotel you choose many hotels will prepare the room for a romantic ocassion for hotel guest. GUARANTEED to WORK! GOD Bless! [Equality] <p>[This message has been edited by Equality.]

Umm... Val, is there a possibility that your wife might be pre-menopausal? You said she's 49, right? Has she ever had children? It's not an absolute, but women who have not had children often go through menopause earlier than women who *have* had children. And some women become pre-menopausal around 40.
<p>Being tired for no reason is a symptom of depression ... being disinterested in things one was formerly enthused about or at least interested in is also a symptom of depression.
<p>Just a couple more thoughts from a woman who has suffered from depression and whose husband is leaving her basically because of that...
<p>terri

VAL
<p>From a female point of view as far as it goes with the sexy nitegowns etc. Often when a woman does not want to wear these types of clothing they are insecure as to how their body looks, have you reasured her that you love how her body looks?. Of course it is easier on the womans self esteem if she thinks she doesnt look good, that she will wear things to cover it up. So remember to tell her that her body is attractive to you. Also you may want to remind her in a very loving way that marriage or relationships are a two way street. Point out to her the things you do do for her, she may be taking you for granted after all these years. Some women end up beleiving that men owe them something. Everyone must learn that in a realationship you receive, but you must also give to recieve. This request is not "blackmail" but a simple loving and respect to give to your partner. As far a performing certain sexual acts, a lot of times people have a past hang up about the act, it would greatly help if you could get counseling together on this. But there can be another problem involved with certain sexual acts. I am not implying that this may be your problem, but some men just dont get that for a woman to be comfortable in doing certain acts, that a man must be clean!!! Make sure that a shower and soap has been used. Just because you have had a shower 4 hours earlier, may still not make you fresh smelling. Women really do want a clean fresh man for certain acts. Some women can do oral sex to a point but not to a mans orgasium. If you can accept that amount of "foreplay" only then tell her, if she knows she is off the hook about going "all the way" in oral sex she may at least feel more comfortable in doing a certain amount up to that point. Sometimes Val you may have to make a compromise. But Val it seems to me that you aren't being over demanding, as for as it goes for the clothing issue. She needs to take care some of your needs to. Obviously there will have to be some deeper questioning about some of her objections. The answers that she gave to you are not really answers. She is avoiding the real issues, as I said before try to LOVINGLY bring out her fears and objections so she doesn't feel threatened.

Hi Val.
<p>I've read your original post several times, being reminded in many ways of my own marriage. I'm not sure I can offer words of wisdom. But I CAN tell you you're not alone.
<p>Early in our 17-yr. marriage my wife made it pretty clear what she was willing to do sexually. (Think 'missionary', here.) Fellatio? Once, maybe twice in our first year. Thereafter, it was "I don't want to do that." "But I would REALLY like it!" "NO!" (Begging is soooooo pathetic!) Soon, I learned to stop asking.
<p>Even so, our sex life was fairly regular (if limited) until about 6 years ago, when my wife developed chronic back and muscle pain, and chronic depression. She started going to a chiropractor 2-3 times a week for the pain (a young, handsome guy, much richer than me), and a woman counselor for the depression. Soon, I started to hear what a second-rate husband I was, and how she felt cheated in life by being my wife. Then, she became pregnant. In my darker hours, I wonder about that, since our lovemaking frequency was already suffering. But maybe some questions are better off unasked, and unanswered.
<p>Anyway, now it's 6 years later. My wife still has back pain (despite multiple doctors and tests), and is still depressed. (She takes medicines for both.) Apparently, I am still a second-rate husband, despite my working full-time (she works part-time), doing all the chores outside the house, at least half the chores inside the house, plus helping care for our 3 kids.
<p>Our sex life isn't. It's been nearly 4 months since we were intimate, and my wife NEVER initiates. The last time we 'talked' about how infrequently we made love, she said: "Why do we have to have sex? Why can't we just BE?"
<p>How do you respond to that? "Why do we have to eat?" "Why do we have to breathe?"
<p>Well, I guess that's enough rambling from me. Like I said, no words of wisdom, just empathy.
<p>Doug <p>[This message has been edited by Doug.]

Thanks all! (more, give me more!)
<p>(in no particular order...)
<p>Doug, yes, begging is so pathetic. So I stopped, not that I mind being pathetic - I just hate being pathetic AND unsuccessful
<p>Carole, I know where you're coming from, but cleanliness isn't the problem. Even freshly showered, no dice. Also, I've always known and understood her "conditions" and honored them. That shouldn't be the problem either. ( I do appreciate the delicate manner in which you ask ) I try to tell her that she has a nice body (and she's lost weight lately, so she should believe it).
<p>Terri, this is the stickiest problem of all. If I were to venture a guess, I would say that she is more than "pre-menopausal". She's never had a regular period (due to wide weight variations years ago) and she's stopped menstruating 10(?) years ago. The problem is that she's a Christian Scientist, and refuses to see doctors. (Yes, I'm deathly afraid that I'll lose her to some disease that could have been diagnosed and treated, but that's another story) So she won't get "help". (aint denial great? )
<p>I think that's everybody. Thanks for the input and by all means, keep it coming! I'm working my way through "Give and Take", and hoping that she'll read it (and take it to heart) I dodn't want to "make" her do something she doesn't want to do. I am unhappy that she doesn't seem to "desire" me enough to do things, and doubly so because I would think she would want to do it "just to make me happy". I say that because there's plenty of things that I would rather not do, but I know that SHE wants them, so I do it for her, but as I said before, I really don't want a "I'll do this if you do that" relationship.
<p>Val<p>[This message has been edited by V.]

Hi. I'm no expert here. Well, maybe I'm an expert coming from the wrong side...but not really by choice. My husband and I aren't intimate much anymore (due to problems I think you responded to), though I've made it clear I'm available if asked--just so you don't think I'm an ogre...and I really wish we were intimate more often, but it just doesn't feel right (emotionally, not physically). Now, I'm not suggesting the same reasons apply to your wife, and I don't really know anything about her religious choice, but could the problem be repression stemming from that? It sounds like you aren't the same religion as she is. Do you go to church? If you do't, could you convince her to go elsewhere if YOU went with her. I'm not knocking CS's, but I think medicine is here for us to use. And a change could help your sex life (you never know!)Also, I've always had irregular, well, visits, and I get migraines sometimes and feel a bit anxious (though whether thet's because of him or me, I don't know)at that time, and I've wondered sometimes if it wasn't hormone related...with her, it especially seems likely, though I'm no doctor. Hormone imbalances can also cause the symptoms you mentioned--depression as well. In any case, if she won't get help, that's no help. Sorry. I was also thinking that on the occassions where my husband and I finally stop fighting and...you know... the one thing that can turn me off faster than a light switch is if he moves things along too fast. I understand it's because we don't often enough, but it really ruins it for me. I mean, can you ask her what exactly she likes more than anything else for you to do, then do it A LOT? For a LONG TIME? That usually works for me. Not to get personal or anything, but guys tend to get too PERSONAL, too fast, and girls often like little touches, back and foot rubs, kisses, etc.more than the actual event, or both equally. I'm sure at your advanced age (ha ha, just kidding), you know this already. One other thought. The gowns sound great (very nice of you!), except that if she's as repressed as it seems she is, maybe it IS a bit much and she's using the other reasons as excuses. Can you maybe have a nice cup of whatever and make lists, or fill out index cards, of things you want, and then trade? You do one of hers, she does one of yours? You could negotiate the lists first to remove high discomfort items. You could try, 'Go shopping for a nighty of your choice that I like too' on one card, then put 'Wear it' on another, and 'Take it off for me' on another. She could trade for backrubs or any of those little extras you don't feel as inclined to do anymore (I don't blame you---since my hubby started being jerky, I have a hard time doing the extras too). You might even work the list up to being a fun game for the two of you---EVENTUALLY---don't rush it. Maybe she'll loosen up and you can up the ante a bit. Who knows, maybe she will. Good luck and best wishes.

Hi Val. Thanks for your reply to my topic. I added more information based on your comments.
<p>Sorry to hear about your troubles. I think your wife is probably having some self-esteem problem. It could be your relationship, or it could just be a personal problem she's having. If you love her, don't give up. Try to get her to figure out why she is not in the mood.
<p>I think if you just pressure her to have sex, it will only hurt the situation. When my husband and I started arguing, I told him I did not want him to touch me. He continued to try and it just made me even more upset.
<p>There's something deeper going on here. Let your wife know that you love her anyway, and you are willing to wait. Sometimes waiting can be a great build-up.
<p>As for the felatio, personally I get turned on by doing it, but I won't, well, swallow. It gives me heartburn. Sounds silly, I know. But, sometimes I do it anyway just to make my husband happy.
<p>I do think women's hormones have a nasty effect on our sex drive. But usually, there is some other underlying problem.
<p>

cdurta, and all,
<p>Thanks for all the advice. (Please, don't stop though!) I'm learning more about my marriage every day (well, every day I allow myself to learn!) and I love my wife more every day. Sometimes I see-saw between really just wanting to hug her like there's no tomorrow, and other times I can't help but feel that I'm on the bottom of her "priority list". (I think many of you know how it feels to be on the bottom of your mate's priority list!)
<p>Keep it comin'!
<p>Val

Val - I can speak from the flip side of the coin. I've been married for 6 years now. Our sexual relationship is the PITS for me. He NEVER wants to have sex. (When we first were married, it was a LITTLE better, but now?) We probably have sex once a month. Last time, it had been 2 months. I used to try lots of enticing, romantic things, but he claims he just "doesn't" like sex. Says hes ALWAYS been that way. That to me, is WIERD for a male. Other than that, we get along pretty well, with a few problems, but I love him. The sex thing hurts me SOOO much its hard to tell you how much because it makes me feel so close to him. But, like you, I wILL NOT beg. And haven't. So now, its been about 4 months and going. What could possibly be wrong with him?<p>An afterthought - I am physically in good shape (about 5'3 and 120 pounds) and I keep myself looking nice at all times. Its not a physical thing like that. He says he LOVES me very much - he basically works and comes home, calls me from work 3-4 times a day and is really sweet. <p>[This message has been edited by Cndy (edited 11-05-98).]

Val,<p>I find I disagree with most of the posts you've received. Everything I've read sounds like bribery, rather than solutions.<p>Perhaps less is more. The best way for my husband to get my attention, and all that comes with it, is to join me. Be with me in what I do. Cook with me, run errands with me. Visit my life and at the end of the day, just hold me and be my best friend.<p>Genuine attention, partnership if you will, goes a lot farther than any amount of bribery.<p>Chop some onions, Val. <br>b<br>

Hi cndy, cdurta, and Bianna,<p>Thanks for all the suggestions and your honest, and shockingly frank, answers. Though I love my wife, and would do anything for her, I'd be lying if I said "I'd do it all over again."<p>Bianna, I know what you mean - but I think I have this "base" covered. I try not to let her do anything alone. (That doesn't mean I hang on her like a puppy though!) Even if she volunteers to shop (for clothes - Yech!) alone, I go with her. I never deny her my time - not that I want to - I love being with her. <p>The opposite in not true however, she won't go to an "event" connected with my job, or church, or clubs. She says that she hates to "make small talk" with people she doesn't know. (Not that I can blame her entirely for that.)<p>Sometimes I just get the feeling that we're not "equally yoked" love-wise. I'd do anything for her, she won't even drive into the city for me. (we live about 15 miles away.)<p>cndy - I agree with you. (at least by my standards) it is "weird" for a man not to want sex often. I would be so thrilled to have my wife do some of the romantic things you talk about. If I got home and the lights were low, and she appeared wearing something sexy, I'd forget whatever I was thinking and be on her wavelength instantly! (BTW, my wife is in good shape and very sexy, prolly about the same ht/wt as you. She's starting to get comments from the WOMEN she works with!) I do tell her how attractive she is. <p>Heather - I'm afraid you're probably correct about the hormones, but there's nothing I can do about that (and nothing she WILL do about about it) I just have to hope it changes by itself. (I hope we both live that long!)<p>cdurta - Unfortunately, it's knowing that women like you exist that helps drive me nuts! (No, I'm not blaming you for being sensuous!) It just reminds me that I was young and idealistic when I got married, and didn't take MY needs into account. I just figured that if I did whatever she asked, that she'd do the same for me!<p>Still crazy!<p>Val

Bianna,<p>Chop some onions? Haven't I cried enough yet? <p>Val

Once again Val, you made me laugh. Thanks for brightening these pages with your delightful humor.

Thanks, Parizade,<p>It's nice to be appreciated - even if it's for being silly. (Generally, I excel at that!)<p>Val

Val,<p>You have indeed put a lot into your marriage! Okay, I won't make you chop any onions. I've skipped a few posts, so this may be old news. I wonder if your wife is uncomfortable on a pedistal. You love her so much. Can you talk? I mean as friends? What would she say if you said, "I need your help. I have a problem and I'm not sure what to do. I feel that I've pushed you away...."<p>Does she like to read? Maybe one of the many books listed here would spark her interest?<p>Something's locked up inside. Something serious. Painful guilt at not living up to your needs? or because you can express your needs and maybe she can't? This is tricky ground.<p>Alas, Val, don't despair. I believe she loves you or she wouldn't be in such pain. I agree with whoever sugested a physical. If nothing else, she may be able to talk to a doctor about things she can't discuss with you. If that makes her feel better, so be it.<p>We're all pulling for you.<br>b

Thanks Bianna,<p> I hadn't though of that, but anything's possible. I think we have enough clashes for her to feel that I don't have her on a pedestal. (Unless I was Jekyl & Hyde type!)<p>Val