First of all, i'd like to say that this forum is really helpful. My husband of nine and a half years left home this morning for a 2 night trial separation (we've agreed to get together and talk again in 24 hours), by mutual decision. But, i feel awful. Apparently, i have been living a complete lie for a long time now. As i read over some of the letters posted by others, i am quite saddened by our predicament. You see,in my eyes, we've had an exceptionally strong marriage (i've always felt like he was an angel sent down from heaven for me). But, we recently had a blow-up about him staying out until very late one night. I won't go into details, but we've discussed this over & over, and I believe he was faithful. As a matter of fact, he always has been. As a matter of fact, until this recent problem (which just escalated after several days), I thought everything was "normal" in our marriage. This little incident was the straw that broke the camel's back, though. As a matter of fact, i truly believed we had one of the strongest marriages i know. When i read these other letters, it seems that none of our issues are as significant. We don't drink, fight, or have financial problems. Basically, he says he fell out of love with me. I never knew it. He says it's been a problem for several years. I was stunned and bewildered when all of this came out. I though for sure he was having an affair, but he's not. We've been talking about our feelings for two or three weeks now, several times a week. In my eyes, we had a very special relationship, one in which we could solve any problem. We communicated constantly. We are very open with each other, we enjoy the same things, we have the same values/beliefs, we both have great careers, we have alot of respect & admiration for each other. He told me that i'm the best thing that ever happened to him, that he doesn't think he'll ever find anyone as "wonderful" as me. He says i have helped him a lot. He says he admires me. He seems very confused. He just says that he cannot believe that i didn't sense that he was not giving me much attention or wasn't enjoying my company. That blew me away!! We do everything together, such as having dinner together almost every night, going out to a movie on weekends, spending time with other couples, and just watching TV together. We recently bought a boat and have had two great summers on it. We have a beautiful house ,and i thought we had built a beautiful marriage together. Boy, was i fooled! I am still shocked when i think about what has happened. I told him that i couldn't live with somebody who just didn't love me anymore (although part of me would desperately do anything to save the marriage). I've read your information about why people fall out of love and i've shared a little bit with him, but he basically says that he just has "no feelings" for me (initially, he kept saying that he didn't know what his feelings were, now, they are apparently just gone). He also says that he wants to have the feeling again, and he wants me to feel it, too, and thats why he thinks we should reconsider the marriage, so that we can both have the possibility of finding true love, maybe somewhere down the line with someone else. He says he's doing this for me because i'm a great person, whom he thinks "deserves more" than he can give me. He says that he needs time to think. I feel so overwhelemed and just astonished at how quickly this happened. Is it possible for someone to just fall out of love, but still stay in the marriage and act like everything is OK? Of course, i agree that things weren't perfect, but i never dreamed that he didn't love me and that we wouldn't be together forever. I am a marital counselor, and this whole event has made me feel sad and disillusioned about marriages. I have talked with him about trying to work things out, thru therapy or something, but he says he just can't go to a stranger to talk. We are both going to lose so much. At least, i know i am. i am desperate to keep hanging on, but i know i've got to be strong and draw the line if i have to, but i just don't know if i'm being "snowed" or not. Do you think it's possible to help someone like him fall in love again, or am i just making excuses and holding on to something because i'm afraid to be alone?? He has been talking to a male friend of his and getting some guy-advice. I told him that i thought it was natural to lose that "lustful" feeling after ten years, but he says it's just gone and he has no desire to tell me he loves me anymore. I'm so sad. please help!!!

Disillusioned - well you are not alone - I "am there" and a I "am doing that" right now.<p>The same happened between my H and myself, and as you, I was as shocked and bewildered.<p>You are only at the beginning of a long and difficult road. When my H first told me that he no longer loved me, I really could not understand the reasons. Little by little though he talked more and more about what he felt was wrong... and boy was he right... he had complained about things for a while, but I was just not listening. Of course, it takes two to tango, so now that I have made changes to better fulfill his needs, he is starting to make changes too - but it is a very difficult process. And there is no guarantee for apositive outcome - but you have to give it all you can!<p>Try to question your husband about why he thinks he is not in love with you... he must have reasons - they may be deep rooted and it may take a while for you to find out. In the mean time, read His Needs Her Needs by Dr. Harley, and Men are From mars, Women are From Venus (John Grey). Be open minded - ask yourself "DO I do all these things?" You may discover that neither of you is quite fulfilling the other's needs... men and women do speak very different languages.<p>Just hang in there - even though things seem very bleak right now, this situation will be an opportunity to better yourself and your marriage. Trust yourself and your H.<p>Janet

Janet,<br> I would just like to say that your response to my letter was a bright spot in my day. My H is scheduled to come home to talk tonight, and I've been alone the whole weekend, trying to get support here and on the phone (my family lives eight hours away from me). You're so right, it is very difficult and I'm still very confused. It helps me to know that you also had your husband come and tell you that he didin't love you. I'm sorry that you both went thru that, but i'm wondering how things are for you now? Can it really be maintained??<br> My H has told me that a big part of what is missing is (You guessed it) sex and intimacy and those good ole "lustful" feelings. At first, i was so angry, and told him that OF COURSE those things are minimal after ten/11 years together! We can't expect to be lusting after each other after all this time. But, now i'm afraid. he knows i'd be willing to work on that part of the problem, but he keeps saying that things will eventually go back to the way they were, and we'll be stuck with no feelings again.<br> I'm glad you responded, and it was really helpful. I think it's the first time i've smiled in a while. I'm trying to be positive, but i guess i hesitate to be the one to put forth all the energy into fixing things, in case he opts out of everything. Were you afraid to be the one doing all of the work, or did yuor H eventually become committed to fixing the marriage, too?<br> Thanks, Disillusioned

Disillusioned, Even if you are the only one doing the work, that will probably be only at first. If your H is willing to commit to trying to save your marriage, then he will either agree at the outset to make some changes, or he will respond to yours.<p>Please use the search function to find recommended books - there have been so many - I would highly recommend "Divorce Busters" by Michelle Weiner-Davis and "The Five Love Languages" by Gary Chapman in addition to the ones that Janet has recommended.<p>Additionally, find the Love Busters and Emotional Needs questionnaires on this site and see if you can fill them out together with the promise to each other that you will not get angry over what the other indicates - honesty is the thing you haven't been sharing in your marriage (not telling the spouse things that bother you is just as dishonest as an out and out lie in my opinion). And promise each other to really work on eliminating Love Busters first, and fulfilling each other's emotional needs next. The reason you do so in this order is because right now your H may be unwilling to allow you to meet his emotional needs because he perceives himself to be "out of love" with you.<p>As far as the "lustful" feelings go ... if that is one of his top emotional needs, then you will have to consider that you might be wrong in assuming they "go away" after a while. They go away mainly because we don't try to maintain them, and if we try, often they return.<p>I wish you great luck ... I wish I were in your shoes ... my H has moved out and is seeing someone else (and has been for about the last two years of our marriage).<p>terri

Terri, <br>Thanks so much.<br>Your support is greatly appreciated.<br>I have written another "letter" on the "Other Topics" forum, after i read many, many letters that were in response to a woman in the same position as me ("Need Opinions"). The forum is helping me feel alot better. I was actually able to eat normally this morning.<br>I'm sorry about your marriage. I wonder if that is every woman's secret fear?? That her husband is with someone else. It must have been so painful for you. I hope you are doing well. It helps me to know that i can be a strong survivor, if i have to be. Bless you for your kind words!!!

Disillusioned...<p>My H and I have been going thru very hard times since mid october... and the end is not quite within reach... as I mentioned it is a very long and difficult process. I liken it to climbing a mountain - some days are easier, some days are terrible - you slip and slide and fall and you wonder if you will ever make it. But as long as you take even the smallest of steps, and turn around, you will see that you are getting higher.<p>I have learend many things thru this ordeal: 1) that SEX is 100% important for a man.... my H tried telling me many times, but I only finally understood it when push came to shove. Sex IS one of the major ways men show affection. 2)that you have to work at your marriage every day... I was under the misleading impression that LOVE would get us through anything... well it can but you have to nurture it all the time. 3) that I (and YOU) have the power to modify the situation, by changing the way you see and do things. In my case, I went through some hard personal times and shut my H out in many ways. This hurt him deeply. By finally staring my probs in the face, I realized that I could change the situation for myself, and hence for my marriage.<p>My H is also afraid that if he re-commits things will slide after a while... and it is a common comment on this forum. My response is "actions are stronger than words" - thus I have a lot of work cut out for myself - work that I can not expect anyone else to do!<p>Terri's suggestion for "Divorce Busters" is excellent - that book really helped me overcome my self-esteem problems. As I mentioned, there is no guarantee - but if you take this opportunity to better yourself, you will have gained that, regardless of how your situation turns out.<p>As for doing all the work, when all of this started, I decided that I loved my H deeply, and that I would be comitted (and comittable.... ;-) ) 100% until the very end. Thus I would have to try everything possible. That way, if things didn't work, I could at least know that I did try. I reflected on what it meant to love and forgive in a life-time comittment - that is what is keeping me going these days. Until the very end...<p>Hope these ramblings help. You and your husband seem to still be communicting - that is good. The holidays may be a good time to lay all of the weapons aside and make peace with yourselves, forgive, and figure out what is really wrong in your relationship. <p>My H has moved out also (but for more than 2 nights!)... we are moving ahead, and he speaks less of divorce, and more of reconciliation... but I know that that can change within a moment's notice...<p>So just hang in there - you are not alone in dealing with all of this bad stuff. Take a deep breath now and then, and think about what good there is in every day, and how much you love your H.<p>Janet.<br>

Disillusioned - <p>I just read your reply to a post in ther "Other Topics" section - I am amazed how similar our situations are - no children, H most important aspect of my life...<p>I am glad that you and your H are talking - I hope the holidays bring you both hope and courage, and lots of love - please show it to each other.<p>J

Dear Janet,<br> I just wanted you to know that things are still kinda tough for us. I have not been writing because i spent a week at my parents' house over Xmas.<br> Even though my H and i were supposed to talk after he left the house last Saturday, i called him (after reading many posts here and deciding that i didn't want to push him into "loving" me) and asked if he would NOT come over that Sun night to talk. I told him that i just needed more time to think. I guess in the back of my mind, i hoped that it would give him a week and a half to think about things, talk to people, and maybe even miss me.<p> Well, my plan sort of back fired. He and I met here on Tues night, and he began telling me that he's been more relaxed and has been eating and sleeping better since this is now "out in th open" (meanwhile, i was a basket-case at my Mom and Dad's house all week). He basically said that "it seems like everyone would be happy if we got back together, except for me." I was, once again, devastated. I know i had my hopes up too high, but he scared me because he really sounded like it was completely over.<p> Well, then, we kept talking and he began crying about his sister's death (car accident/age 16) and how he's afraid to tell people that he loves them, for fear that he too will die soon after (that happpened with her). So, shortly after that, he started to tell me that i have not been meeting his emotional need for admiration, that i continually find things wrong with him and often criticize what he does at home. He's right. Well, we were BOTH in tears by then. He said that he did not want me to take the blame for what has happened, says he feels mostly responsible. However, i told him that i was RELIEVED to hear that i DID have some part in what has happened. At least i know that i contributed to the problems, and that the more i critisized, the more he withdrew, and it became a cycle. A very sad cycle that has destroyed a potentially beautiful relationship.<p> I'm quite aware of where this all comes from (my parents constantly critisize each other), and i know i need to work on it. Fortunately for me, even though my H is still not living here, he has agreed to go to a marital counselor. This is an EXTREMELY HUGE step for him. I am really glad about that, but i'm terrified that he is only doing it so he can later say "See? This isn't working. All of you were wrong" (everyone has suggested counseling to him, and i'm sure he's feeling pressured). I guess i need to take it one step at a time.<p>Does anyone out there know how to find out what counselors in my area are registered with Dr. HArley's concepts? I called Dr. Harley's toll-free number, but they are closed until Jan 4th. Is there a list somewhere here on Marriage Builers? I would like to find a counselor where i live, who uses these concepts because my H and I have already completed the "Emotional Needs" & "Love Busters" questionairres. I feel like we could make progress if we get started with someone objective.<p>Janet, i've been thinking about you and wondering how you're doing. How was your Xmas? Please let me know! Take care!

Disillusioned: Even if your H is only going to counseling to placate you and family members, it is still a major step - particularly if you find the right counselor. I don't believe that there is a list of MB counselors here on this website. I emailed them once about this and was told that they have no one listed in my area. However, if you follow the list of things to do to find a good counselor which is available by clicking the link "counsel" at the top of this page, you should find someone who can help. Some other things to ask about when talking to a counselor is if they use "Solution Oriented Brief Therapy" in their counseling. SOBT is designed to find out what the actual problems are, brain-storm solutions, and set in place a plan of action to implement the solutions. It is supposed to be very effective in helping marriages in crisis, because there's very little time wasted.<p>Good luck! I hope that counseling will help you both!<p>terri

Terri,<br> Thanks so much just for listening. I'm overwhelmed with sadness right now. My H and I have been talking and talking, and the more we talk, the worse i feel because i realize just how detatched he already is. He is talking like there will NEVER be a reconciliation. That he does not want that at all. I am having very little hope left. Only despair.<br> Thankfully, he has agreed to counseling, but i'm not really impressed with anyone i've talked with ("interviewed" over the phone), so far. This is exhausting. I barely have energy to do anything, let alone trying to find the perfect counselor. He says he's only going so that we can both make the best decision for both of us. Which, i think is really mature of him, but i'm very tired. <br> You've been a big help, just giving very concrete advice. I'm trying to call about some support groups for myself, so that i can begin functioning. I go back to work on Tuesday, and i can't even imagine making it thru the day!<br> Thanks again for being out there!!! Happy New Year!

I found this website today in search of advice on marital problems as well as opinions and experiences of other couples. I have really been enlightened by the conversations b/tw 'dissillusioned' and the others. I am a 33 year old male who have been with my wife (of 2.5 years) for over 7 years. This relationship has been an emotional rollercoaster for the last 5 years mainly due to the fact that I felt that I have always put more into the relationship than I have received from my partner. Because that I felt that my partner has not always been as committed to the relationship as myself, I accepted this as a challenge to win her undying love, trust and affection, but most of all committement to me. In the process, I made a vital mistake in compromising things that were highly important to me and my emotional/physical well being. I compromised sex (my wife told me on many occassions that she could take it or leave it), affection, and many other personal needs and desires. I totally accept the blame for this. Janet was right in her assessment of the lessons she learned about men: "I have learend many things thru this ordeal: 1) that SEX is 100% important for a man.... my H tried telling me many times, but I only finally understood it when push came to shove. Sex IS one of the major ways men show affection. 2)that you have to work at your marriage every day... I was under the misleading impression that LOVE would get us through anything... well it can but you have to nurture it all the time. 3) that I (and YOU) have the power to modify the situation, by changing the way you see and do things."<p>I still love my wife very much and have expressed to her on many occasions throughout our seven year relationship that I will do just about anything (sexually, emotionally, financially) to please her...don't get me wrong, I am not a WIMP, I just feel that if I satisfy my wife's needs that will solidify our relationship. She on the other hand isn't quite on the committment level that I am. One year prior to out marriage I explained to her my unhappiness with the relationship and spelled out all of the things that I needed to be happy. At that time she superficially agreed to do the things necessary for our happiness which inevitably made these stumbling blocks recurring episodes every few months or so. I have tried to reach out in every possible way to let her know how important these things are to me, but she just appeases me for a short while to clear the air and its back to business as usual. And now when I finally build up the courage and resolve to decide to end the marriage, she does a 360 degree turn-around and agrees to do whatever it takes to make me happy and our marriage work. I'm afraid to re-commit... b/c I have been telling her exactly what I need to be happy and there has not been any ambiguity whatsoever and my unhappiness has caused at least 6 'relationship at the crossroads' discussions<br>over the last 2 years...and now she wants to concede to doing the things that makes me happy. I just feel that she has the wrong motives for doing these things now and will either eventually relapse to her old self or resent me in the future for her sacrificing her true feelings for my happiness or her one day realzing that she is unhappy doing these things and ends up like I am today. We're both young and have no kids and can start a new life. I want to preserve the friendship b/c that's what our relationship is built upon, but she says that she will hate me forever if I divorce her and will not have anything to do with me. Does anyone have any suggestions/comments?? Thanks in advance for any insight!!!!!<p>

If you love her, order the books from this site and both of you sit down and read. When you're not reading, get some counseling from a marriage and family counselor who is understanding and committed to helping you learn to make your relationship work.<p>And then do it. Many times when we love someone, we take them for granted. We hear them but we don't listen to them. When they do something drastic, it gets our attention like nothing else has. It doesn't mean that we are wrongly motivated to change - it means that we are listening because you've said something in a language we can understand clearly.<p>Don't condemn your wife for her sudden interest in your needs - be happy that she is finally listening, and get into counseling together and both of you be willing to work on your marriage.<p>terri

Ace - I'm going with terri - <p>Your W is listening now! start talking seriously to each other!<p>J

disillusioned - <p>I found out on Xmas day that my H ws just stringing me along to get me through the holidays... it was rough.<p>The more we talked, the more I realized that no matter what I did to change it would not be enough for him.<p>You are lucky to have a job to return to... it will keep you going and believe me, will be a relief to get back to! As for me, I have to start all over myself.<p>Janet

Terri/Janet,<p>I hear you...but I've threatened divorce on other occassions (though it was only a threat to get her attention) and she responded in a similar manner and after a week or so the change dissipated. I believe that our actions and motivations are strongly tied to our values and belief systems and that many of these are instilled in us from childhood. My wife also stated that she is the way that she is because God created her that way...her personality and actions are innate characteristics that make her who she is. <p>We have analyzed our relationship in 1000 ways and I have revisited the beginnings of our relationship and the reasons why I wanted to marry her. I came to the conclusion that I was never really totally satisfied in the relationship and was always wanting more, but believed that I could change her (MISTAKE!) to be more like my vision of an ideal mate. I take full responsibility for my naivity at that time. Meanwhile, as I was always wanting more, she was always taking more and taking me for granted. I did order a couple of the books from this site yesterday and I am trying to remain objective about this entire situation. There are more complexities in our relationship than I explained here due to lack of time/space and respect for our privacy. I also read some stuff from other postings and I was in the same situation as the gentleman who called his marriage off 1 month prior to the ceremony. He saw all of the signs upfront, as did I, but I admire him for having the courage the end things at that point before the marriage occurred. I wasn't so courageous and now feel that I can correct a mistake before more complications (kids, infidelity, etc) occur. Am I wrong for thinking this way???

Ace, people can change if they decide to. There isn't any "right" or "wrong" way to feel ... but my feeling is that you did make a vow to her - before friends, relatives and God. You owe it to yourself and to her to take every opportunity to make your marriage work. Especially if, as you did say in your first note, you love her. You had the wrong expectations of your relationship if you thought you could change her - you need to find out if she can change herself before you give up on this.<p>As I said in my first note: read stuff written by professionals - professionals who believe that any marriage is worth saving and can be saved. Go to a good counselor or use the telephone counseling on this site. Find out how to communicate with each other effectively without hurting one another. And learn techniques for making it work all the time. Go to a marriage encounter or marriage workshop or seminar together. Retrovaille is one that is supposed to have a very high rate of success for bringing couples back together in some of the most dire circumstances.<p>Those are my feelings on the subject. You must make your own decisions, of course.<p>terri

Ace,<p>Except for a few minor details, your letter could have been written by my husband. I really feel for you and your wife now. I know it is a horrible situation to be in and I wish everyday that my husband and I could have avoided it. <p>I took my husband for granted, didn't respect him, and didn't meet his needs. He was just like you - he gave everything he had until he couldn't do it any longer. He told me many times what I needed to do and asked me to change, but like Terri said, I only heard and didn't "listen." <p>I am listening now, although I fear it may be too late. I have finally realized just how selfish, immature, petty and disrespectful I have been. I want to change for him and our marriage, but for myself as well. That is what is different about this time. How could I have been happy with myself when I was treating him that way? I have committed to becoming a better person, whether he comes back or not. <p>I guess with all of this rambling I am trying to tell you to give your wife another chance if you love her and believe her to be sincere this time. Remeber that divorce is final and if you have the slightest belief that she can change and you can be happy, then do not do something you may later regret.<p>I know my husband loves and cares about me, but at this point he is unable to commit to saving our marriage. I will always regret the pain I have caused him and how I wasn't able to make these changes sooner. I'm sure you're wife is feeling the same way.<p>st<p>

st,<p>During our most recent episode, my wife has gone out of her way to be more affectionate as well as more passionate in the bedroom and more frequent with sex, but this lasted for about 12 days...this week it has been business as usual: no affection, no sex, selfish and annoying behavior. I don't know if she is punishing me for not responding in the way she anticipated (committing to stay in the relationship). That's why I question her motives, b/c if I were in her shoes I would display a pattern of consistent behavior which met the needs of my partner. B/C at this point, my emotions cannot handle another misfire in this relationship. I wish she had your perspective and would not only change for me, but do it for herself as well b/c I believe this would force a more permanent change. I would be willing to give her another chance if she would 1) stop asking me for an answer to re-commit to the relationship 2)consistently meet all my emotional needs 3) not expect me to flip a switch and 'baby it's all good' again.<p>I guess the other thing that makes my dilemma more stressed is that the serenity of singledom is calling my name so that I can be the 'taker' for a while...not have to consider someone else in my decisions...do what the hell I want, when I want to and how I want to. Life sure seemed a whole lot more simple in those days compared to what I've been through the past several years. <p>So much for my venting...as for you, I would continue to display behavior which meets your H's needs and not pressure him to re-commit...if you are still living together and he doesn't have any other distractions (if you know what I mean), and he still loves you and finds you attractive, then I think he would eventually come around to making an attempt to make your marriage work.<br>Do some of the things you did when you were dating to remind him of the reasons why he fell in love with you. Hope this helps.....<p>Ace

Ace,<p>Please, please , please talk with your wife about EXACTLY what you've expressed here. I'd give anything to have had my H discover this site years ago and begin talking to me about how important sex really was ot him! He said it occasionally, but it was always in a joking way, or in a "I can take-it-or-leave-it " manner. Now, years later, he's saying he doesn't love me any more. And, i am just NOW dicovering that he wanted me to be more sex-oriented than i was (for example, he said "why haven't you ever walked out into the living room in a teddy?"...i was floored by this comment!!! I would have done it every night (even if i didn't really feel like it) if i would have known that it may have saved our marriage!!<p>Anyhow, to make a long story short, my marriage is probably over, and i'm dying inside. i'd give ANYTHING to take away the last two months. PLEASE talk with her and maybe look at this site together. I really think what you're experiencing is normal, but it can turn sour in an instant. PATIENCE. TALK. Thanks!

Ace,<p>I appreciate your advice, as well as all of the advice given on this forum. As a result of the suggestions on this site, I went out yesterday and bought the book Divorce Busting. I read it last night and learned more from it than our three therapy sessions. It is exactly what our marriage could have used from the start. It is all about solutions and action. <p>My H and I have basically had the same fights for ten years. We say the same things and act and react in the same manner. This book can show you that all of that can change with some simple techniques. Don't wait for your feelings to change - change your behaviors first and then your feelings probably will change.<p>I recommend that both you and your wife read this book very carefully. If she is not willing, then you read it and try your hardest to follow the techniques. If you have any doubts at all about leaving the relationship, please do this! Thankfully, my husband has agreed to read the book. He moved out a month ago and I feel that time is running out for us. Don't wait until it is too late for you.<p>Take care,<br>st