I participate in a men's therapy group which is moderated by both a male and female licensed counselor. One of the rules for participating in the group is that nothing discussed in group leaves the room.<p>My fiance is offended that I will not discuss any of the issues from the group with her, believing that our commitment to be one in God's eyes takes precedence over man's rules for the group.<p>What are your suggestions? Thanks.

Tell her it's a clear demonstration that her confidences are very safe with you. Keep up the good work.

I disagree: this violates the rule of complete honesty. There should be no secrets in a marriage (I'm pretending that you two are married).<p>JP: this is a good time to learn about the Policy of Joint Agreement. See if you and your fiancee can come to some type of agreement over this issue. I wouldn't boil this down to a "God's law" issue: by being secretive on this, you are hurting your fiancee. Find out WHY? What does she need to know? Would she be satisfied only discussing things that we're pertinant to you? There are lots of compromises ranging from her realizing that she really doesn't need to know anything, to you giving up the group.<p>Brainstorm and figure out something you can both agree on. Beanie has a point on your ability to keep a secret: I could turn it around and say that you'll be able to keep an affair secret from her as well. The bottom line is that there's really no room in a marriage for secrets or privacy.

K wrote:<P>>>The bottom line is that there's really no room in a marriage for secrets or privacy.<<<P>What about jury duty? What about respecting the confidence of a friend and not sharing his/her secrets with your spouse? <P>>>There should be no secrets in a marriage <P>I thought of his respect of the privacy of the men's therapy group as more of a healthy boundary rather than a secret. <BR>

beanie:<P>A healthy debate. Jury duty is a legal obligation, and I would handle it in either one of two ways: the spouse would understand that it's a forbidden topic, or during the selection process you would be upfront with the judge that you might discuss the case with your spouse (and risk contempt). An opportunity for the POJA here: you ask your spouse "will you be able to respect the legal privacy, or do I risk going to jail?"<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> thought of his respect of the privacy of the men's therapy group as more of a healthy boundary rather than a secret. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>What this comes down to is:<P>Who cares what you think?<BR>Who cares what I think?<P>Those are irrelevant. I agree with you on this in fact, but the facts aren't at issue. What is at issue is jp's fiancee's FEELINGS. It makes no difference whether those feelings are RIGHT or WRONG; they're her feelings. Your advice to jp ignores his fiancee's feelings.<P>If jp can't negotiate to a mutually satisfactory compromise, to continue the men's therapy group and not discuss it with his fiancee is saying:<P>I don't care about your feelings. I'm right about this. Too bad.<P>And that's an inappropriate message to send your spouse. I suggest that you read over <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3800_honesty.html" TARGET=_blank>www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3800_honesty.html</A> the Rule of Honesty: this is one of Dr. Harley's "extreme" position; although counterintuitive at first, it really makes good sense.<p>[This message has been edited by k (edited 03-12-99).]

K wrote:<P>>> I suggest that you read over www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3800_honesty.html the Rule of Honesty: this is one of Dr. Harley's "extreme" position; although counterintuitive at first, it really makes good sense.<<<P>I read it but didn't see anything that contradicts the idea that JP can participate in a men's therapy group without discussing the details with his fiance. IMO, complete honesty can include a statement like, "I'd really like to discuss the details with you but I can't because it violates the privacy of others in the group." <P>I guess you could say that JP would be choosing the group's feelings over his fiance's. However, when two people disagree over an issue such as this, how do you decide whose feelings get honored? Isn't she also violating his feelings by insisting he break the rules of the group? I mean, if I don't like something my husband is doing and we can't reach a compromise, then he has to stop. I win, he loses.<P>>> Jury duty is a legal obligation, and I would handle it in either one of two ways: the spouse would understand that it's a forbidden topic, or during the selection process you would be upfront with the judge that you might discuss the case with your spouse (and risk contempt). An opportunity for the POJA here: you ask your spouse "will you be able to respect the legal privacy, or<BR>do I risk going to jail?"<<<P>Again, I don't understand how we can call this joint agreement when one spouse is forced to violate his own idea of integrity by honoring his/her spouses NEED to know what's going on during a trial. There's nothing "joint" about it. How are the feelings of the spouse who feels duty bound to faithfully serve on the jury honored? <P>

beanie:<P>Simply put, if you're ACTIVELY doing something that harms your feelings for your spouse, then you should try to fix it. It doesn't mean that you have to lie down and not do it (total giver), nor does it mean that you ignore their feelings (total taker). You learn to compromise, using the Policy of Joint Agreement. <P>You should ABSOLUTELY try to avoid situations where one spouse "wins" and the other loses. You have to learn how to negotiate and turn the situation into a win-win situation. There are times where that may be impossible; and there are times when "self-sacrifice" for a long term goal is OK. But in general, if your marriage isn't made up of "win-win" situations, it will deteriorate. Learning to effectively use negotiation and the POJA are keys to becoming more compatible with your spouse: you get rid of the thoughtlessness and insensitivity to each other in the marriage through the effective use of the POJA. <P>When you got married, you made a choice to put your spouse before all other concerns. The POJA is in essence an extention of this, but making sure that your "needs" (your taker) also has a chance to be accounted for.<P>I illustrated these positions with a couple "black and white" positions. There's lots of shades of gray inbetween, and learning how to negotiate with your spouse and finding those shades is one of the keys to a successful marriage.

Talk to the group and the counselors about it. I think it is safe to say (I'm in a group also) what YOU talk about in the group concerning your situation is okay to talk about, but what you say about others or what they say about you or their situation should be off limits to the wife.