Recently I posted a letter about my husband of 23 years wanting to leave me. I could'nt understand what had happened that made him so sure this is what he wanted. He would not even consider working things out. He was so hateful talking to me. Yesterday, my best friend called me and told me, she owed it to me, to tell she had be seeing my husband and had feelings for him.I confronted my husband with this and he did not deny it. All he said was that at least she had the guts to tell me the truth. My so called best friend stated she was sorry but she had thought our marriage was over. How can she say that? At this point my husband has not even moved out of the house. And we haven't discussed divorce yet. My husband and me plan to talk today about divorcing and how we are going to work out the bills. I am crushed will this nightmare ever end. Judy

\<p>[This message has been edited by HollyAnn (edited July 07, 1999).]

Judy,<P>You've been going to a counselor for this, and I would suggest that you continue. Have you taken time to reflect on your marriage and figure out where you've been failing? In "Harley-speak", what lovebusters have you been using on your husband, and what needs of his are you failing to meet.<P>Although I agree with most of what HollyAnn says, I think it's too early at this point to give your husband an ultimatum: it's unclear to me if he's sure of his intentions yet, and it's pretty clear to me that you still love him and would suffer if he did leave you on your "asking" him too.<P>I would suggest that you purchase a copy of "Surviving an Affair" by Harley/Chalmers, and that you start implementating "Plan A" of that book. Basically, Plan A refers to you establishing a new track record with your spouse: mainly focused on eliminating lovebusters in your marriage (he's unlikely to let you meet needs that he's currently getting met by the OW). I would NOT encourage him to move out now: you need to show him that you can change your marital behaviors, and it's much easier to demonstrate that while you're living together. If you choose this way to combat an affair, you'll need the support of a good marriage counselor to help coach you through the elimination of lovebusters, and to give you support if your husband continues the affair. It's important to try to be consistant during the "Plan A" time, and you should probably figure on being in Plan A for no more than 6 months (he doesn't need that piece of information). Plan A is tough while your spouse is having the affair: I know from experience. But you can also hold your head high knowing that you're doing the RIGHT thing and that you're behaving the way a spouse should.<P>I would not "discuss" divorce with your husband. You can simply tell him that you love him, you are committed to making this marriage a great place for both of you, and that you will not participate in a divorce. Ask him (no demands) about marriage counseling. If he chooses to file, get a lawyer for advice, but do not sign anything. If you don't want the divorce, you don't have to sign.<P>I agree with HollyAnn that you should act with dignity and not beg, plead, threaten (all lovebusters). It's hard when your spouse is having an affair, but if you can learn to control those negative behaviors through this, you'll do great when the circumstances are better. <P>The flip-side of Plan A from "Surviving an Affair" is Plan B: that's basically the "tough-love" scenario that HollyAnn describes. It's Dr. Harley's belief that Plan B---a no-contact separation in which you've stated a love for your spouse and a willingness to work on the marriage after the affair is over---is more effective if the faithful spouse has spent some time in Plan A changing their behaviors and giving their unfaithful spouse hope that the marriage could be something new and better. You're ready for the execution of Plan B when you feel the need to resort to lovebusters (anger, disrespect, demands) on a daily basis with your unfaithful spouse. You need to get away from them before you lose all the remaining love you have for them. It also exposes the affair to reality; and most affairs don't last too long in the light of day.<P>You have my sympathies: it's a very tough situation, but you can be successful. I suggest that you continue counseling with someone who supports what you're trying to do, and I would second HollyAnn's recommendation to see an MD and get on antidepressants.<p>[This message has been edited by K (edited 04-05-99).]

MrsJudy7<P>I won't claim to have been in a situation like yours, but my heart aches for you. I have read many posts in this site and in other sites with relationships in dispair similar to yours. The thing that I have learned is that the pain of an affair is intense and it can be life shattering. But you can pull yourself up by your boot straps and survive and it is possible to pull a marriage out of the gutter even when you are the only one who seems to be committed to the making the marriage work. Marriagebuilders is full of wonderful advice. Also, go to http://weiner-davis.com It is a wonderful site with excellent advice on turning a divorce bound marriage completely around. Until you and your husband come to some sort of resolution, try to maintain a positive mental attitude, keep busy, and take care of you.<P>I will pray for you<P>Mari

\<P><p>[This message has been edited by HollyAnn (edited July 07, 1999).]

\<p>[This message has been edited by HollyAnn (edited July 07, 1999).]

Thanks for everyones response and concern. Since I have last wrote. My husband has moved out into his own apartment. And is continuing the affair with what I thought was my best friend. While I was confiding in her, the pain I was feeling. She was sleeping with my husband. They are planning to marry in the future when our divorce is over. I have ask my husband where I failed. And he told me I was not affectionate enough and that I did not talk to him enough or give imput in our conversation. I have thought this over and over in my mind. And He is telling the truth. I could have been more affectionate. And I could have joined in the conversation more. In my defense, I did not come from a loving home. So it not easy for me to be affectionate. And it's not that I was not listening. I am naturally a quite person, and He was always dominating the conversation and I didn't know what to say, so most of the time I didn't say anything. So by being this way, I lost the love of my life.

Judy,<P>It's good that your husband has been able to be honest about your failure to meet his needs, and it's good that you can recognize that.<P>But it ain't over yet. <P>I would encourage you to discuss your situation with Steve Harley here at Marriagebuilders. Steve is Dr. Harley's son, and he does all the MB phone counseling (I've worked with him for a year). He may be able to help you formulate a plan to get through this infidelity in the best shape possible. There are areas in your personality (behaviors) that you recognize could use some work: you should start doing that work now. It'll make you feel that you're taking a positive action, and learning these new behaviors will help you no matter what the outcome of your marriage.<P>I would encourage you to "fight" the divorce, if you don't want it. You can refuse to sign papers: that'll mean that your husband will have to go through the "no-fault" process that your state has (that usually takes a year, and the clock doesn't usually start until someone files legal separation papers).<P>Affairs are based on fantasy: if the OW and your husband are starting to live together, that fantasy will start to become reality. And very few affairs survive much past a year once they've been discovered. Extremely few end up as successful marriages (yeah, but I'm sure that they're "different"---you'll get that line). If you can hold on to your love for your husband through this period, you'll probably get a chance at reconciliation.<P>It's tough to put forth a productive "Plan A" if your husband has left and won't see you. If you feel the need to cut off contact with him (Plan B), you should do so following the advice that's in "Surviving an Affair". <P>Good luck.

\<p>[This message has been edited by HollyAnn (edited July 07, 1999).]

I have to say I agree with Holly Ann in a way. It is one thing to work on "Plan A," working on the marriage and changing your own patterns and love-busters, IF the affair is over and the husband will agree to that. If he does agree to end it, and DOES in fact end it, then I would say that is the best first step.<P>However, as Holly Ann points out, IF your husband does not end the affair and continues it, then I don't see how you can implement Plan A, trying to work on your marriage and letting him stay in the house with you, while he is still involved in an affair. If that is the case, then the only scenario I can see working is the tough love approach.<P>That is what it would all come down to for me - whether or not he has ended the affair would make the decision for me as to which approach to use on this problem.<P>------------------<BR>

shelleyseale,<P>Plan A is specifically for use when a spouse IS HAVING AN AFFAIR. If your spouse isn't having an affair, what Plan A amounts to is following the MarriageBuilders Rules for a Successful Marriage.<P>Immediately going to a "tough-love" approach after discovering your spouse in an affair (where they refuse to end it) is a technique that can be successful to save a marriage. It can also backfire: the spouse who's having the affair can view this as "punishment" and use the separation to justify their exit from the marriage.<P>Plan A is a SHORT-TERM approach to give the unfaithful spouse hope that the marriage could be different if they ended the affair and worked on the marriage. It's not easy. But for marriages in very, very serious trouble, it may be more effective than simply the tough-love approach. Plan A, if unsuccessful, is followed by Plan B (a separation---the "tough love" paradigm).<P>

\<P><p>[This message has been edited by HollyAnn (edited July 07, 1999).]

\<p>[This message has been edited by HollyAnn (edited July 07, 1999).]

HollyAnn:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>how could a rejected, wounded, destroyed spouse reasonably be expected to implement Plan A, that is be loving/meet needs to show how great the marriage could be as in incentive to end the affair?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Not everyone can. You need to have the ability to look at the "message" of the affair, to see if you were failing on your sife of the marriage (not meeting needs, using lovebusters). If you recognize that you were failing, and you can summon up the strength and courage (and resources) to work on the marriage, than it is a WONDERFUL first line in attacking an affair. You concentrate mainly on eliminating lovebusters (and you're going to feel like lovebusting while your spouse has an affair). I did it by realizing that I would do "what it took" to save my marriage and family. That if I "tough loved" and it backfired, I might never be with my kids "permanently". It's not meant for a long term strategy: 3-6 months is typical. In baseball terms, I see it as a "middle reliever" or the set-up guy---you get a few good innings out of this new behavior. Sometimes it makes a difference and the affair ends. Other times you do go to a complete separation, but when you do, you've left your spouse with memories of how good you were and how hard you were trying. Those are important memories for when the affair ends and the unfaithful spouse reflects on the marriage and it's potential future. So if the cheating spouse has a real "reason" for cheating in that you've been lovebusting on that spouse, than I especially suggest that Plan A be followed. If you've been the "perfect" spouse, than a tough-love approach may make more sense as the "first phase" instead of the second.

\<p>[This message has been edited by HollyAnn (edited July 07, 1999).]

Thanks for all the advice. I tried the tough love approach. It back fired on me. This was just what my husband wanted. I have seen my doctor and he has given me some antidepressants and something to help me sleep at night. I am also seeing a christian counselor. This has been helpful. My husband has blamed me for his having an affair. At first, I was willing to take all the blame. But most of his reasons are made up lies. I been told this was to help justify what he is doing. I may not have been an perfect wife. There is always room for improvement. But, I have nothing to be ashamed of. I have been a committed and very supportive ministers wife. I have always been willing to allow my husband to put his family last and his church family first. Not only has he hurt me. He has hurt alot of people who trusted in his leadership and guidance. I often wonder if he ever thinks about the impact this has had on others who believed in him.

\<p>[This message has been edited by HollyAnn (edited July 07, 1999).]