On 24 Apr 99, I posted the following in the "Negotiating In Marriage" forum. I have received zero replies in a week. (I get the hint) I'm going to try this forum in the hopes of "someone" having some advice. If the results are the same, I guess I'll really get the hint. <P>From 24 Apr 99:<BR>I am new to the forum and have two questions. My first question is for anyone who knows what advice Dr. Harley gave an individual knwon as "T.C." T.C. asked what to do about being in a one-sided marriage. He loves his wife and wants to work on the marriage, while his wife "doesn't love him anymore" and "wants to find her 'happiness' somewhere else." I am in the same situation and Dr. Harley's' reply was, "I am not printing my answer to T.C.'s question.<P>Background: My wife and I have seen a marriage counselor. Right now she is not interested in seeing the counselor anymore. I believe it is because our sessions have reached a point of understanding that she is very uncomfortable with. Basically, we are at a point where all roads lead to her needing to deal with personal issues in which she is not ready to face. She won't even admit these "secret personal demons" exist.<P>Question #2: I have come to the conclusion that "true love" is something that either does or does not exist between two people. When it does not exist, people only realize it after understanding that the way they felt for their partner was for another reason, i.e. being in love with the idea of being in love, etc. However, true love existing between two people is different. I do not believe we have the potential to fall "truly in love" with just anyone we choose. My wife and I have what it takes, and both admit that we were truly in love at one point in time. I believe that once you are truly "in" love with someone else, the love never dies. I think it is something you have to nuture and the feeling of "losing" it is only because you allowed it not to be felt and won't allow yourself to feel it again, although it is actually still there. My marriage counselor and I believe I have made changes within myself to bring the walls down and allow my marriage's true love back into my life. We also agree that my wife has not brought her walls down because of her unwillingness to deal with her personal issues. These "secret" issues are the final stumbling block to her allowing our true love back into her heart. Am I wrong?<BR>

Dear BCW,<BR>Hi- I read your 1st post yeaterday, but that was also the 1st day I'd found this forum. I was thinking alot about your questions. I'm just a Mom at home these days (and proud of it) so I'm no professional, buthere's my 2 cents:I'd like to suggest respectfully no matter whose secrets they are or whose walls stay up or down, it is a important thing to both of you. If you believe in true love and that 2 become one in marriage, then her walls are as crucial as any of your walls or issues. She appears to be in a state of withdrawal, very afraid to come out. If you love her, it seems kind of abandoning to say "Well, I did everything I could do -I got rid of all my hangups- I guess she'll just have to do it on her own" I don't like to compare people to animals but in my state of withdrawal I felt like a puppy that was afraid to come out of the dark box I was in. Now, to turn that around- if I loved a puppy so much and I wanted it to come out so I could love it more, I wouldn't just say well, it's your hangup, little buddy- I'd be there reassuring, always reassuring that it was good and light and happy out of the box. Maybe someone else can't get another out of the box, but you can be there showing them that it's okay to come out. Here's another analogy that works for me- Say your child that you love dearly is a late developing walker. What would you do? Everytime he make any kind of progress-hanging on the couch, pulling himself up, basically any accomplishment even if not related to walking - you would be there encouraging him and softly showing him how wonderful you thought he was. You want your baby to be the best he can be for himself, not for you, right?<BR>Have you read the article in this site on How the CoDependency Movement is Ruining Marriages? I think it will help you. I think you would be hurting her to dump it all in her lap. Sometimes the box is big and very dark-her secrets may be secrets to her, even. If she knows what they are she must be afraid of what will happen if you know. Why do you scare her?<BR>MaryC

The process that has put us at the point we are now has been filled with nothing but encouragement. It started with exhuastive discussion about what caused the breakdown in the marriage. Then we apologized for everything we had done wrong. I showered her with affection and tried to re-establish our communication. Telling her I loved her, giving her gifts, and opening my heart to her only made her feel guilty because she did not have the ability to return the love. We then came to the understanding that she did not need a lover-oriented partner, but more of a "friend" to be there for her as she tried to come to terms with her personal issues.<P>The pattern remained the same in this "agreement". I was there to talk to and be supportive, but she was never "in the mood" to talk about anything. After three weeks of this I confronted her with ignoring the issues. <P>When we came to this "supportive friend" agreement we compared to this analogy: <BR>Within each of us we have a hallway with many doors on each side. Behind these doors are problems we have hidden over the course of our lives. They are problems in varying forms and intensity, however, they are inner conflicts which none-the-less effect us in our daily lives. Some doors we are aware of and others we are not. In order to become "whole" as a person we must face what we have hidden behind these doors. There comes a point when we cross the line of fear and begin opening the doors to face what we have hidden.<P>When we came to the "supportive friend" agreement I had already crossed the line and began dealing with my "demons" behind the doors. Because of this I knew how much support my wife would need and explained what I thought my role could be. Everyone, me, my wife, and our marriage counselor, thought it was a positive step. We agreed my role would be that of a "sage" or "guide" through the process of dealing with long denied and neglected problems. When I confronted her with not meeting me half-way in the process, she denied having any "demons" to work out.<P>Before the supportive friend agreement I had talked about our problems to the people she is closest to. Both her sister and best friend agree that there are personal issues my wife needs to deal with, but they don't know what they are. Everyone tells my wife that she needs to work on our marriage and she replies with, "I feel like everyone is ganging up on me." We've given her the room to deal with things but she takes avantage of it by ignoring the problems and telling herself she'll work them out once we are separated or divorced.<P>She says her only hang up is the fact that she has never been able to survive successfully on her own. Somone else has always taken care her and this has created a sense of missing self esteem because she's a fiercely independent person. We have discussed the fact that positive traits can be taken to the extreme and become faults. For example, independence taken to the extreme becomes distance. You must learn how to walk a very fine line between keeping your independent nature and not distancing those around you. It's too easy to see things in black-and-white and see your alternatives in making choices as one extreme or the other. In this case I believe she thinks that she will only find what she is looking for once she creates enough distance between us.<P>She tells me that it is not me at all. She sees the changes I have made and she is happy for me and proud of me. She says she doesn't want affection and intimacy in her life right now, but doesn't want to alone the rest of her life. I think she has not forgiven me for things that I don't even know about. I believe she is unwilling to allow herself to feel anything for me because subconciously she still sees me as a threat to her security...distance.<P>I've tried love, support, communication, freindship...what else can I do?<P>

Dear BCW,<BR>You said:>After three weeks of this I confronted her with ignoring the issues. <<BR>I think 3 weeks might not be long enuf for her to forgive you or open up. Some wounds are really deep.Give her all the time she needs.(She probably is sincere in her apology, but forgiveness takes longer-it's a mending process- that takes it's own time)In fact you could tell her that you love her just as she is and that even if nothing changed from this point forward, even though you hope that you will grow closer, she is still the best for you than anyone. Then believe it yourself. Secondly, I think you might find a councelor that practices what Dr. Harley has found. Find a LoveBusters therapist- If I were her, I'd feel like everyone was ganging up on me too. Everyone is! You, your therapist , her sister, her friend... And you needent be her "guide". That's not an equal relationship- It's an I'm better than you. Your path to a better relationship with her might not be the same as her path to a better reltaionship with you. Do you see what I mean? Those doors in the hallway might be opened with your right hand, but she may need to use her left hand.<BR>She still needs that distance for some reason. So let her have it. Would you grab that puppy by the scruff of the neck (however gently) and put it out in the open (because you thought the time was right even tho' it was still unwilling to come out on it's own) if it were still afraid? That would only make it distrust you. <BR>Someone told me once to quit making an agenda for my husband. He was right. I think you are making an agenda for her- even tho' you are good intentioned. <BR>I sympathize for you and hope that your hearts can mend. Say prayers and find that place in you that really loves her, warts and all.<BR>MaryC