In my last post I asked if I should go home and talk to my wife.<P>I asked a freind at work what she thought. Her H cheated on her and they've been divorced for 2 years because if it. She tells me that my marriage is over. Heather will never be able to trust me again. She said that even the thought of her H touchinf her made her want to puke. Funny... Heather said the exact same thing to me.<P>My friend says Heather will leave. It will be hard for her to go, but she can not stay with a man that has done this to her. She agrees that what my sister did was wrong. She should have confronted me first. And on mother's day too... I hate you Jen, even more than I hate myself. You had no right to take Mother's day away from my wife!<P>As the day goes on I feel more and more like the @sshole my wife pictures me. My friend is right, there is no point in going home. Heather will talk to me only when she is ready. No matter how hard I try, it will do no good unless she is willing to listen. My friend says that I have no idea what kind of pain I've caused. She's right. I'll never know. Depression is setting in quickly with me now. I have no desire to do my job. I don't feel like talking to anyone. (except Heather of course). Her dad is going to kill me. He's a Vietnam Vet and he's not going to stand for this. My sister took it uon herself to tell my mother the whole story too. Why? What the [censored] is wrong with you Jen? Does it make you feel good to know that I'm in hell? You've always done this type of sh*t to me. I can't f*cking stand you. Stay out of my life!<P>I take the easy road, I always have. I feel that there really may be no hope of saving my marriage. And because of this I fear that I may not try as hard as I REALLY want to. I really want Heather to stay with me. I just don't want to fight a loosing battle.<P>I feel like such an outcast now. To my family, my mom and dad, even my friend here at work. The pain in HER eyes once I told her why I've been sad these last few months. She said "THAT's why you've been moping around here..." She almost started to cry, I assume it's because she knows exactly what Heather is going thru.<P>I never wanted to be one of "those". I can't believe I am one now. Heather deserves better than me. But I want her to stay with me. Sh*t!<P>Sh*t Sh*t Sh*t Sh*t

Steve,<P>I'd suggest that you get to a doctor and get on some antidepressants. You're experiencing the mood swings that would be helped by mediations like Zoloft.<P>Now, stop the whining. First, stop blaming your sister. You are responsible for your actions---your sister didn't do this to you. Grow up.<P>Next: don't confide in any opposite sex friends about your marriage problems. It's asking for trouble. Don't do it---consider this rule set in concrete. Your friend at work doesn't have a clue---ignore that advice.<P>Once you get yourself straightened out, I suggest that you start that counseling. The whining and self-pity are certainly not going to help you with your wife. Neither will blaming your sister. Nor will acting like a manic depressive patient.<P>You need to start with a game-plan. You've got to start changing these behaviors. In the end, you may fail, but you owe it to your wife and child to give it your best shot. It's time to grow up, Steve---I had to do it a couple years ago (at a much more "advanced" age), it's time you started.<P>Get to a doctor. Get to a qualified marriage counselor.

.<p>[This message has been edited by HJF (edited July 16, 1999).]

I'm not mad at my sister for what I did. I know I am responisble for that. I'm mad at her for what SHE did.<P>Funny how everyone wants to believe everyone else but me. I know I screwed up. Bad. And I know this isn't about me. I don't need any drugs to make myself feel better, I deserve to feel this way. I went to bigyellow.com and tried looking up a marriage counselor for our town. There isn't one. I'll find one close by though. Although I don't really know how the heck I'm going to be able to go. When I get home from work I have to watch the kids while she goes to work. And no way am I asking my sister to watch the kids for me! <P>I can't do this alone. And I can't believe I'm admitting that I need a counselor. But I guess I do. I've never liked going to one before for other stuff, like my temper... But this is different. I don't see myself going to a counselor for me or for Heather or my kids, but for my marriage. That's the right reason isn't it? I don't know how I'm going to pay for this either, but oh well. So much for buying a new truck next year....<P>OK, question for you. Do I just find a counselor and go, or do I tell Heather I'm trying to find one then go? I've decided I'm not making any decsions on my own, except that I dicide I want to save my marriage. <P>IF Heather will let me...<P>I'm not making sense anymore. HA! ... Did I ever?<p>[This message has been edited by StevieB (edited May 13, 1999).]

Steve,<P>I'll second HJF's advice, you should spend some time over in "infidelity".<P>If you look at my profile (click the glasses), you'll see I've been here for a while. I stay not because I'm in need of help with my marriage, but because I'm trying to help guide people through this process.<P>My wife had an affair. We had two children. She continued the affair even after I discovered it. After time, we separated. Then she got pregnant. I returned, and after a couple months, the affair finally ended. That child is now 5 months old. We have made it through all that and have a marriage that's much better than it ever was---and it continues to get better daily.<P>Now, this isn't to say that your situation isn't hard, but it's far from hopeless. My situation wasn't hopeless either, but I sure felt that way at times through the process. My best resource for making it through this process was Steve Harley at MarriageBuilders---that's why I suggest that you talk to him. He'll help you get yourself straightened out, and he will do the best he can in helping you fight for your marriage.

Steve:<P>Whether you "deserve" to feel this way or not is irrelvant. What's important is how your current state of mind will impact your marriage. And you'll be able to work on your marriage better if you're on antidepressants right now---that would be my best guess. If it'd help your marriage for you to feel like crap---hey, I'd be for it. But it won't. You need to understand that punishing yourself isn't the right thing to do right now. Your wife punishing you isn't OK either---but she's not here asking for advice. We're working on you.<P>Steve Harley does telephone counseling. I was skeptical of the effectiveness at first, but I'm a true believer. So are several others who have used his services here---I've not heard one person who has said that they don't like him. If you're unwilling to do the phone counseling, I'd suggest that you call his office anyway (888-639-1639): they may be able to refer you to someone locally.

And to answer your question about whether to tell Heather about counseling, I suggest that you do some "background" research first, and then discuss it with her. If she's willing to go, that's great. If she's unwilling, I would still urge you to attend.<P>And counseling is relatively inexpensive (Steve is $75/session). That is a new truck payment, monthly. But if you want to talk expensive, why don't you think about divorce, lawyers, child support, etc. Not that economics should be a primary motivator in saving a marriage, but the counseling you pay for now will be much cheaper than anything else you do down the road. And if you come out with a happy marriage out of this---well, I think I'd label that as "priceless".

Steve, I've been following your thread with interest and heartbreak...your intentions are so much better than those of other betrayers, but you are scattershot to the winds and exploding in a million different directions. Others have given you good advice on that, I don't need to add.<P>But something about your attitude has made me think...this business about how you DESERVE to be depressed. Has it ever occurred to you that this is very manipulative behavior on your part? It's like you are trying to twist it around so that Heather will take the blame for what you did, or that SHE will come to comfort YOU, if you only HURT enough. Do you see what I'm saying? This sort of self-flagellation isn't helping you patch up your marriage. If your Heather is a nurturer at all, she probably usually responded in the past to you when you got down or depressed...and now you may be using depression to get her to nurture you again...when SHE is the one who needs it.<P>Why am I posting this? Because my H says that I am manipulative in just that way. I get very emotional when I try to discuss things important to the relationship. I always get weepy. Part of it is that I'm just an emotional person, and part of it is that I am terrified of him (or anyone) being angry with me. He says it tears him up when I cry (but not enough to make him give up his "friend" -- rueful laugh) and that me crying makes him the villain, no matter what I'm trying to discuss.<P>I never thought of it that way, or understood what he was talking about, till I read your posts in this thread.<P>Think about it...I'd be happy to clarify this point if you need it.

Priceless....<P>K to be honest I'd pay anything to have Heather stay. I hate how I feel. I try not to show to much emotion, but now... I go from furious to balling my eyes to making stupid jokes. I go from desperately seeking the advice of a counselore to thinking I don't need a screw-off shrink to tell me that I messed up.<P>I wasn't thinking of taking Heather or asking her I sould say... to the counselor with me. I thought I was supposed to go alone. I'm not? I'm the "bad guy" here, aren't I the one who needs help? I don't think I understand you... is Heather supposed to go too?<P>I want to go for 2 reasons. The main one is because even though I don't want to admit it, I need one. The second is to show Heather just how sorry I am for what I did and how serious I am in attempting to save my marriage.<P>I'm not playing games. I'd say I'm swallowing my pride, but I have none anymore.<P>here comes the emotional uproar again... i better go for now.

Dazed,<BR>Now that you put it that way, you may be right. But I won't allow that. Thanks.

stevieb, sounds like you're in alot of pain and need some help to get through this. my prayers are with you...take care...

Anyone got a "and they lived happily ever after" pill I could take?<p>[This message has been edited by StevieB (edited May 13, 1999).]

Steve,<P>The main, most important reason to go to a marriage counselor is:<P>You want to repair and rebuild your marriage to something terrific, for both you and Heather.<P>It's easier to accomplish the goal if you are both involved. But often it takes one person to start out. In my case, it was me---the "good" guy. What you need to realize is that you made a bad mistake with this affair. But my guess is that you both have work to do in the marriage to make it great. Heather is not the perfect wife for you---to say that she is (through guilt) is doing you both a disservice. You will both need to learn the skills necessary to have this "great" marriage. If she's willing, that'll be great. If you do the phone counseling through Steve, her participation could be limited to his gathering information from her---through the use of his forms and perhaps an hour session. If she's willing to participate fully, that's even better. Even if she's unwilling, you can make a difference.<P>I did counseling with Steve, by myself (mainly), for almost a year. I was learning valuable skills---I knew this. I learned the "rules" for a good marriage, and Steve helped me apply them. To what appeared to be a pretty damn hopeless case. So, regardless of whether Heather chooses to participate, you should plan on doing this. Becuase it WILL make a difference.<P>And as for your feeling all these emotions, that's very normal. But again, "normal" isn't necessarily "productive". I think that getting on anti-depressants will help you level your emotions out. It takes a couple weeks to start up, so I'd recommend that you do it soon. I went the first three months "post-discovery" without drugs---and I was a lot less agitated than you appear to be. But after I started on them, I found that they helped me with my level of patience for impossible situations---they gave me the ability to "think" before reacting. And what's nice is that I learned how to do this for myself---using the drugs as an "aid". I've been off the stuff for almost a year now, but I can still "think" before reacting---because I've effectively learned this behavior.

Ah.... THINK then react. I always did have trouble with that one.... <P>For the record, Heather has tried on numerous occasions to get me to a counselor. I have very little doubt that she would be unwilling. Unless of course, she really does want to see me burn in hell.

.<p>[This message has been edited by HJF (edited July 16, 1999).]

Something I don't quite understand... ppl keep telling me to "be there for her". I don't understand this. She hates me. Why would I be the one she comes to?<P>I'd love for her to! But I don't see why she would.... I guess I have more to learn than I thought?!

Steve:<P>My guess is that Heather doesn't hate you. She HATES what you've done. And she's probably not thrilled with you as a person. Or with your behaviors.<P>But she probably still loves you---you've been a husband and a father. Those feelings don't immediately evaporate.<P>Again, with counseling, you'll be able to put the brakes on "Love Bank" withdrawals, and you'll be able to start and shore up the foundations of your relationship with her.

Still no answer to my question.....<P>Do I go to the counselor FIRST? Or tell Heather I want to go, then go? I mean.. I am going to go. I'm not doing this for the mere benifit of saying so. (Heather would tell you how hard it is for me to even think about going...)<P><p>[This message has been edited by StevieB (edited May 13, 1999).]

Since you were the one to make the first step ruining your marriage, then be the one to take the first step repairing it and call the counselor.<P>Do we have to come over to your house and wipe your butt for you too?? C'mon, dude!! You can do this, now pick up the phone.

I've made the call, I was too late tongiht though. No one was there. I will take the number to work with me tomorrow and call them in the morning.