Hello everybody!<P>I am posting and reposting this topic everywhere, and still no or very little feedback. If anyone has any experience, please, respond!<P>The story in brief:<BR>Several years of very close and intimate relationship, overcoming difficulties; several years of marriage, which turned out to be unhappy: lack of space, emotional distance, fighting; two affairs, on each side -- which, in fact, made each of us "wake up"; separation and his wish to be left alone.<P>Now it has been nearly two years after we separated; we started to see each other only three months ago, and we are always having a good time, give presents to each other, and show a lot of attention. Still, it is so far from being same as before.<P>I know, I may be moving too fast. What do men think? How slow is not too fast? I know that he needs to be let alone, and I am doing my best, but I am afraid I am overdoing this: if he doesn't call, I don't too, and it can go for nearly a week. <P>He says he doesn't know what love is any longer, and I know that I do love him and I am willing to work as much as necessary on our relationship. It is difficult to hold my toungue and not say it. I don't want to put pressure on him, I know he is still in his mid-life crisis and has to solve too many of his personal problems before he can turn to me. He speaks often about people getting out of and back into relationships, but my desire is to cry "why can't we do the same, right now?!" At the same time, I understand that this is probably the most that he can do at this moment.<P>I am afraid to do something wrong, I know that I can't MAKE him fall in love again, and I don't intend to. I hope to induce this love, but I need to do it right.<P>Any advice?<P>------------------<BR>m145i@theglobe.com<p>[This message has been edited by ILM (edited June 05, 1999).]

It sounds like you have been through alot with this man. Sometimes things never go back to the way they were before. <BR>I have some experience with this, as my husband left, and came back.<BR>We had many difficulties due to our differences in parenting...and we still do! My first husband left me too, but his leaving was permanant, and I had to go it alone untill I met this one.<BR>So I guess I can say I know how you feel.<BR>When my husband left (the second time) I learned to move forward without him! Of course I felt the pain, and longing for him to come back. But I just concentrated on ME, (and the kids) and kept busy with my friends, found things that I enjoy to do, and didn't worry about him. (I also changed the locks) I moved on! In my heart it wasn't what I wanted. I wanted him back. But when he got wind of what I was doing (being content)...he came back on his own..and even then I told him that first he needed to learn to love himself, before he could ever really love me. <BR>Love yourself! Let him see that, that is exactly what you are intending..and thats all. You can let him know that your heart is there for him, but you need to find your spirit too.<BR>All my best to you. Good luck!<P>------------------<BR><BR>

Thank you, WonderMom!<P>I am doing my best in what you describe, I traveled a long way since we separated. I am making new friend easilly, I am going backcountry camping on my own.<P>He sends me mmised messages all the time. One moment he say he wants me to elimineate all barriers, or that no dovprce is ever final. But yesterday, when we were talking about divorce topics, he said that what people may be just mistaken when they think, it is love, while it is something else, and this isnot their fault.<P>I am crying since then. Or am I overeacting? If he means himself, I've lost not only him but all my memories, all those wonderful times we had, all that I though was meaningful, all those moments when I saw him being happy with me -- all is nothing.

In your original post you didn't mention that a divorce was discussed. Did he initiate one? Did you tell him you don't want one? Tell him,<BR>dont cry,as emotional as this might be for you, or look as if you are dependant, you're not right!? Men are not emotional like women, they think more logically. <BR>One thing I always tell my family,,,,,<BR>treat your friends like family and your family like friends....<BR>and I remember one thing that I said to my husband when we were negotiating our reconcilliation,was:<BR>I love you<BR>I want you, <BR>but I dont need you!<BR>If you do lose him, you will certainly not lose the memories! <BR>Try to hang in there <BR>I hope I have been of some help...<BR>I'll watch for your posts.<P>------------------<BR><BR>

Thank you, WonderMom!<P>About divorce. Before we separated two years ago, he was talking about his need to take a time off to understand himself. He would also mention that he will never again want to live the way we lived, but he said that I had started to change rapidly, and that he would want to be with a new me.<P>A year after that, when we spent a whole (!!!!) week together, under the same roof, alone (in separate bedrooms), and on the last evening I asked him directly what's next, he became angry and said that he never was a husband to me. I said, I lnew that and had no objection -- the truth is that for me "to be together" and "to live together" should not necessarily happen at the same time and in the same place. He got irritated by this conversation and said "Let's divorce!", I replied "Let's!". THen I left (I lived far away at that time), he came for abusiness trip twomonths later, and I asked him to give me the marriage certificate and to find time to go to the attorney. He gave it to me (at the very last moment, standing in the doors to leave) but never found time for an attorney. I made an attempt in this direction, but I found no guts to move farther than learning what paperwork is necessary.<P>That is where we are now. I am on his medical insurance, he helps me with job search, supports financially (not directly, but, for instance, this computer I am using right now is his present), and continues sending me mixed messages.<P>The divorce talk I mentioned was just a general talk about other people, including this forum. He usually brings up this subject, sometimes, he would say (always about someome else) that nothing is final, another time tell me about someon's "complicated personal affairs" when people divorce and remarry, or refer to our relationship as to something complicated or puzzling for others.<P>What is killing me is his words in this very last conversation. When I said that if this is real love, after all storms it is still there, and people can get together again, but sometimes it is not love to start with, then people take revenge and punish their partner for their own misconception (the discussion was purely theorethical), and he said that "yes, sometimes it is not love and people should not be blamed for being mistaken". To me the "translation" was:<BR>I: "I know I love you, that is why after everything I still want us back, renewed and loving, and I will do whatever it takes to make us both happy"<BR>He: "I was mistaken thinking that I loved you. It was not love, that is why I don't want to move in this direction"<P>This is what I mean -- being deprived of memories. If so, then all those treasured moments -- and there are so many of them! -- were a fake: it was not love.<P>In other times, when I am in a more controled state of mind, I say to myself: "OK, say whatever ou want -- your actions speak louder, you are doing everything what love is -- except physical closeness and verbal confirmations, but this should come naturally, and after many years of fighting and separation it can't happen overninght. I will give you time, and no matter where you are right now, I want you to fall in love; it doesn't matter if it was love for you before, or if you call if only being good friends now -- let's start from here, as if it is a beginnig"<P>All I need sometimes is a little reassurance. I am tired of "collecting" tiny bits of signs that he is moving in my direction -- and then when I hear anything like that it is like a crash...

Well, I guess time is going to be the only way to know. I kind of have the feeing that he is just keeping you hanging on by a string, and for what reason I don't know. I think that he is not being fair by leaving you in the air with his remarks.<BR>Honestly, if it were me...I would not be available for him, and again, just keep on doing things for myself. <BR>How long are you willing to hang? You know the easiest way to take these things out of your thoughts, is to meet others, and go new places.<BR>If it is meant to be, with this man....then it will be...if not....<BR>Take care of U!<P>------------------<BR><BR>

Hi ILM. Wondermom has good advise for you. I am in a similar situation. My husband of 29 years moved out a few months ago to "find himself". He said he didn't love me anymore either - no feelings whatsoever. I got a book by James Dobson "Love Must Be Tough". It is very good. He's written it for the 'wounded' spouse and how to cope. The first thing it says, just like Wondermom said, look out for yourself. Don't hang on or cling. Show him you can live without him. He talks about the spouse that left is really feeling trapped or smothered by the wounded. You must be strong and let him go. I didn't say give up, I said let him go. I am in that process now. Don't know if it'll work but I understand the reasoning behind it and it makes sense. I found the book in my local library. I've bought so many books since he left that I thought I'd try the library and I was lucky.<P>Good luck!