Hey Lizbeth,<P>Actually I feel MUCH better today than I did yesterday, thanks for noticing. My wife and I started talking again last night after essentially not talking since Sunday (well -- there was a councelling session on Tuesday, but it didn't go real well).<P>We had a good conversation and I had a good cry, then we had good sex... <P>--andy

Okay, you made me laugh! Good sex is, well...GOOD! Glad to hear it. LOL<P>I'm actually in a just-reading-mode today. You know, those days when you just don't have anything to say. You certainly aren't going to give advice, not when your own life is so crappy. That's where I'm at. I'm suprised I'm respoding to this, but I like to converse with you, so here I am!<P>Being back with my H is wonderful but SO SCARY. Now, all of my fears are crawling out of the woodwork. The slightest thing reminds me of the pain. My poor H, he must be so confused. We're trying so hard, but I can't help but get a little sad and withdrawn sometimes. It's a cycle we've gone through many times before. I'm trying to still fulfill his needs even though I feel like running for cover. I want to show to him how committed I am so he can be encouraged to proceed with our relationship.<P>Last night we took the kids to a barbeque and both had a couple of beers. I'm a major lightweight, so I got really loosened up. When we got home, the topic of his "friend" came up. He's been insisting this past week that there's nothing to their relationship. It upsets me that he continues to deny it! We look at each other and KNOW there's more. We've known each other too long to not know. <P>We went to bed, but my mind was going a mile a minute. How long will the lies continue? How long will it be an effort for him to spend time with me at these public gatherings? (He wouldn't touch me the entire evening, and usually was busy with other people) We got up this morning and made plans to go to his apartment this afternoon. I told him I wanted to check out his new computer. He admitted to bookmarking a few pornographic websites. He just got the computer less than a week ago! He's been here every night since Tuesday! When did he have time? He hasn't had time to check out the MB website! See what I mean about my mind racing?<P>I thanked him for telling me. But it's so hard!! It's going to hurt so much to see that stuff on his computer. I know he'll be upset, too, when he sees how hurt I am. It's a lose-lose situation. But he can't seem to help it.<P>It's hard to keep trying to meet someone else's needs when your own aren't being met. Well, based on the length of this message I'd say I needed to vent! These are things that I'd be happy to share with my H if he asked, but I don't see much point in constantly reminding him how hurt I am.<P>So, how are you feeling about your wife? Getting those loving feelings back? It's great that you had that talk. Make-up sex is good, too. <P>If me and my H are trying so hard, why is this so d*** difficult!<P>Lizbeth

Lizbeth --<P>Don't have too much time to respond here at home (ironic isn't it that I have more time to post at work than at home?? <laugh> )<P>Hang in there. I know the pornography is disappointing to you, but at least it's not the OW (heck, if you look at it together, you might get some ideas! OK, I'm sick... nevermind! )<P>About the trust thing - Don't worry about it too much. I don't think you SHOULD trust him. Just don't rub his face in it, which I think you already know. <P>I think it would be OK to let him know that you don't trust him and it's going to take a long time for him to regain that trust again, but that it's OK as long as you are together and trying. He might not be so bugged about it if you make it seem like it's just the natural progression of healing. It's not gonna happen overnight! Maybe if he understood that better, he'd be more comfortable about you not trusting him.<P>have a good weekend!<BR>--andy<p>[This message has been edited by airheart (edited August 28, 1999).]

Oh yeah, forgot to answer your other question -- Am I getting those loving feelings back for my wife? Well, it's a little early to tell, but I'm very optimistic! I know SOMETHING's going on... Beats the heck outta pining away for the OW, that's for sure!<P>--andy

Andy,<P>I know what you mean about not having much time to respond. On weekends I want to spend more time with my husband (now that he's around). So am I to understand that you no longer want to be with the OW? When did that stop for you? How long did it take?<P>Very funny about the ideas from the pornography! LOL That's exactly what my husband has been saying! It actually doesn't bother me personally, but it upsets me because many a night he has preferred it over sex with me. I'm young, attractive and quite sexy. Also extremely adventurous and open-minded. It's really tough on the ego. And, frankly, I want to have sex!<P>I confronted him today about his new computer. Actually, I ASKED him about it. I wasn't accusing or blaming. I discovered that when he confessed to me that he had bought it, he lied about when! Twice! It doesn't even matter. I simply suggested that he tell me when he bought the computer. He confessed (the truth this time?). It's moments like this that are especially devastating. He lies about anything and everything. I made it clear to him that it hurts, but I wasn't angry and I didn't lovebust. He knows that I don't trust him.<P>Here's where it gets a little complicated; our marital problems aren't just about him having an affair. As a matter of fact, he has yet to really admit to any affairs. I don't know if you've read my profile, but it gives a little more info. He's been lying to me about women, anything and everything, ever since we started dating. I've never really caught him having sex with anyone else.<P>I've consulted my therapist and done some research. I'm going in with my husband next week to see his therapist. I'm going to ask to have him evaluated by a psychiatrist. I believe he has a bipolar disorder. He also has some sexual problems, which could be connected to the hyper sex-drive that manic depressives typically have. I don't believe his problem is a single affair in which he "fell in love." Rather, he probably has something similar to a sexual addiction. He may have avoided actually intercourse with other women, but I find that hard to believe. He has an amazing ego and spends a lot of time either treating me disrespectfully, or complimenting me on my body (which can be demeaning). So many things about his behavior scare me. I'm hoping that with some medication to stabilize his moods, he will be more "normal."<P>My brother called me tonight to say "what the h*** are you doing back with him!!" I didn't know what to say. No one I know understands what it is like to try to be married to someone with these problems. I'm not ready to give up yet. Even my therapist said most people faced with trying to be married to someone with bipolar disorder would probably get divorced. I can't stop crying about it. I'll be relieved when he gets diagnosed, because then I'll know that I haven't been crazy all these years. But it's scary.<P>I'm thankful for this forum and for your feedback. It has helped me on this journey towards realization and acceptance of my situation. Part of me is afraid my love bank is just about empty, and I'm about ready to give up. I think I'll survive a little bit longer... <P>Lizbeth<P>p.s. sorry for the depressing tone of my loonngg message. Rough weekend! <P>

Hi Lizbeth,<P>Bipolar Personality Disorder can be a pretty tricky thing to deal with that's for sure. My OW has it, so I'm sure that would've been a pretty large thing for me to deal with if we ever had a normal relationship. She's on prozac, BTW, and she told me previously that it worked REALLY well. So if your husband is diagnosed with it, there are medications that work.<P>I've never heard of bipolar people also being pathological liars like your hubby. But then again I'm no expert! But that would seem to be to be a very hard thing for you to deal with. However, it sounds to me like you have a good attitude towards the whole thing. You're taking the right steps, IMO. If he is diagnosed with some kind of chemical imbalance in his brain, there are DEFINITELY things that can be done! I'm hoping for your husband's sake as much as yours that he can get help!<P>About the pornography, I used to be kinda like your husband too. For alot of years I've been unhappy about our sexlife and I've kept various magazines/videos/CD ROMs/websites around to look at. Sometimes I preferred masturbation over sex with my wife. Just recently I threw out all the magazines and stuff. I still have a few floppies that I haven't gotten around to throwing out and one video (I was gonna throw out the video but my wife wants to watch it first! ). But I don't have any need to look at them. Maybe I'll keep the floppies just for those times when my wife isn't around. <P>My wife recently had a breakthrough of sorts about her sexuality. It came out during her marriage councelling sessions, although it was unconnected to my infidelity. Now I must say that our love making is much better than it was before, maybe even better than our whole marriage.<P>I still think about the OW alot and there are many times when I want to be with her or share something with her. We had a really great friendship. I hate that I think about her, but I still can't help it. I don't know how long it will take for her to get out of my mind as much as she is now. But it's very clear to me that I will never have a normal relationship with her and I am working full time on my marriage.<P>--andy

Hey Andy,<P>I'm so irritated! I was just writing to you and wanted to look something up in my email, so I left this screen and then couldn't come back. How annoying. Now I get to start over again. <<sigh>><P>So, what was it about your sexlife before that you didn't like? I'm having a hard time figuring out what our problem was. My husband swore it had nothing to do with me. Just curious...<P>Do you work with the OW? Have you cut-off all contact with her? When? Are you and your wife using Dr. Harley's books? She's very lucky that you're working so hard to rebuild your marriage. <P>I'm suprised that the OW was taking prozac. From the research I've done, the usual treatment for bipolar disorders is lithium or another drug (I can't keep the names straight). Antidepressants alone are avoided because it escalates the mania. There are many different degrees of bipolar disorder. As you said, I imagine this would have become an issue eventually, had you had a normal relationship. I'm not sure where the lying comes in exactly, except that people who are clinically depressed have a different reality. He's VERY GOOD at it, and very bad. Sometimes it's so easy to catch. Probably because he does it so much.<P>Well, my H is back out of the house tonight. Sundays are his time (he's secretive about why). We were supposed to spend the afternoon together and then he'd come over later tonight or tommorow after work. He started to yell at me (really nasty) about our phone bill, so I had to ask him to leave. He was already packed up, and left gladly. He has a pattern of doing this before going out. The yelling started because I asked him to please (again) consider returning the new computer. I told him that I didn't think he was aware of how much money we owe right now, and began to list some of our debts. I thought he would appreciate this because he's very particular about paying debts and protecting his credit. I haven't heard from him since. <P>Well, I need to see if there's anyplace open that delivers food. I have no groceries in the house! I don't have a car, and the bus just doesn't work for grocery shopping. Honestly, I really can't do it unless I find someone to watch my 3yr-old. I just don't have enough hands to shop with her and my 5 mo-old alone. Not unless it's a really short trip! I can't tell you how much it stings each time I see my H drive up in his brand new Honda Accord!! Especially since he traded in my Explorer for it, and took a hit on the trade-in value. He pays more for this car than it's worth, and we owed less on the Explorer! AARRGGHH! (Well, I'm a fountain of frustration, aren't I?)<P> [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]<P>I'm hoping the smiles will wear off on me!<P>TTYL, Lizbeth

hi you two..breaking in here!<BR>now, don't dwell on this airheart, not meaning to trigger you...I personally cannot take prozac, as i apparently have some kind of bipolar, and when i take it, the mania sets in. H has bipolar too, and he has to take a "downer" of sorts, b/c he is ALWAYS manic. It's klonopin, lizbeth, and i think it is really beggining to help...he is seeming much calmer. of course, as i said before, maybe it is just helping him lie more effectively!<P>girl, you should see how my H is with cars!<BR>we traded in a SAAB, at a HUGE loss, to get my CRV (like it was an 18k car, and we needed a 33k loan for it. ARRGGHH), and then his miata was just not enough, so he had to go out and buy a BMW at three times the price. His entire navy retirement check is the car fund, now...yes, i just cringe when the creditors call...manics are SO BAD with money...<BR>i would be livid, if i were you...he has to have his sunday private time, so you can't go to the store. groan.

posted too soon..<BR>anyway, just wanted to get in on the fun <p>[This message has been edited by love WAS blind (edited August 29, 1999).]

lWb, hey sister! I've been following your situation. I'm glad that things are on an upswing right now, I hope they stay that way. Andy, lWb and I are married to the same man, exept her H is a little older than mine. It's really erie the similarities between them.<P>Klonopin is one of the drugs my doctor considered putting me on for anxiety. Decided against it because I believe you have to take a constant dose each day and allow it to build up in the bloodstream. With me breastfeeding, I want to limit my drug exposure. That's how I ended up with the ativan (valium-type). Would you believe I don't even take aspirin? And here I am, discussing the pros and cons of some serious drugs.<P>lWb, have you and your H been diagnosed by shrinks? What type of bipolar disorder are you guys dealing with. My H (as usual) sounds like he's dealing with the same problems as yours. He's definitely more manic! Don't you have a background in psychology? I'm glad your H is calming down. Do my descriptions to Andy sound familiar? Obviously the car thing is! sheesh! The strange thing about my H and money is that he hasn't bankrupted us yet. He has this need to have lots of money, so he works for it and even manages to save it. But then he's so impulsive and buys things we don't need, things that he's even admitted previously that we don't need but suddenly can't live without. <P>You know that feeling when you're too drained to be angry? That's me right now. I can't formulate a... what am I trying to say? All I can seem to do right now is ramble. You know, I'm starting to annoy myself! LOL You guys are good sports for listening to me go on and on...<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Lizbeth (edited August 30, 1999).]

hey girl!<BR>I'm not much of a "drug person" myself, but somthing about life since i married just ain't been right. I think once things calm down, i'll be back to popping just vitamins.<BR>Yeah, the klonopin is a steady, build up deal...wouldn't do it while BF'ing for sure, but it seems to be helping H calm down quite a bit. <BR>Yes, we have both been to psychiatrists, but i have not been in quite awhile..they just suspected (but no real diagnosis) bipolar in me after i took the prozac and started freaking out. I have a stockpile of various antideps, so i am self-medicating for the moment (hate to do it pregnant, but if i dont take something, i dont eat! which is worse?)<BR>My BS and graduate studies in psych seem to be worthless in the face of H's mania..I'm just too personally involved. H's got a psychiatrist and a therapist he loves, and invited me to go next week with him. Can't wait...His bipolar is really just "hypomania", where he can funcion fairly well (he's not like a full delusional, unepmloyable, jesus complex manic, by any means!) but is "hyper" and has the spending and impulse control problems, and talks A LOT. His very high IQ has probably kept him out of a lot of trouble (not ALL trouble, but a lot of it )<BR>About money...my H has never saved a penny, i don't think. He's only stopped the spending madness recently, when all his and my credit cards became full. You should have seen the hell we went through to buy a huge house we could not afford (the realtor LENT US money for the downpayment-and we had to sell it within a year b/c we could not afford it). <BR>From an MB perspective, i suspect that my trying to get him to 'act reasonably' has been a huge lovebuster for him. He refuses to do anything i ask him, it seems like. He has a huge need for admiration, and his bragging wears me thin, so i sort of quit admiring him altogether. He met OW when i was post partum and had no energy for him, and there she was, admiring and needing a better job and having an income (he resents me for not working)...well, that was that.<P>Anyway, we had a pretty nice weekend together (looking at expensive houses-LOL), and he's coming home on tuesday night.<P>Whew, thank YOU for letting ME ramble!<BR>hey, airheart, sorry!- hope you don't feel left out. you know how women can be <BR><P>------------------<BR>for better or for worse, in sickness and in health, for richer or for poorer, till death do us part.<P><BR>

Hi Lizbeth and lWb ---<P>I'm aware of how similar your situations are, I read that thread. There's another person on the forum who's situation is very similar to my wife and I. Her name is sosad. Her hubby sounds alot like me ('cept he decided NOT to stay), and she sounds alot like my wife. Whenever I'm wondering about my wife's reactions, sosad usually says exactly the right thing, and I've been able to give her some insight on her hubby's thoughts.<P>As far as the prozac thing goes, from what I remember, my OW's manic side is alot less dramatic than her depression side. She told me she used to spend days not getting out of bed, cuz she didn't want to face the world. Mabye that's why she was prescribed prozac? Beats me... like I said, I'm no expert.<P>Well, I'm back to being bummed today. My wife and I had a fight last night and our son heard it (he had just gone to bed). He came out and asked what was going on, and my wife replied that mommy and daddy are getting a divorce. Ack!! We've so far been keeping our problems from him, so he was very shocked and upset and cried for at least 15 minutes after that. He basically cried himself to sleep. Very heartbreaking. He's the very reason I decided to stay and make my marriage work! So, another night on the couch... the rollercoaster goes on.<P>Lizbeth, as far as your questions go about our sex life, well the main problem has always been that my wife was pretty inhibited. Always had to be at night. Always in bed. Always the same position. Whenever we did something different, it was usually my suggestion, not hers. And when we DID do something different, I always got the feeling she didn't like it and was only doing it for me. Over the years that started to inhibit me as well. I stopped trying to do new stuff cuz it didn't get any results. I viewed pornography to kinda get that uninhibited stuff vicariously...<P>And yes, I do work with the OW, but only until the end of this week. I gave my two week notice last week. After a brief vacation, I'll be starting with a company that a bunch of my friends started earlier this year. Actually, I'm becoming a partial owner. It's kind of a risk, and I'm scared cuz I've worked at this company for 9 1/2 years! But I've got to get out. It's very hard for me to have so many reminders of the OW around me. Our cubicles aren't that far away from each other, so I can occasionally hear her talking or laughing. I don't want to hear that anymore. WAY too painful.<P>--andy

hey andy, glad to hear you are getting a new job. I hope it works out well for you.<BR>I can't BELIEVE your wife said that to your son!!!! How old is he? poor kid...(man, she musta been really angry to say something like that, im sure she's not a bad mom!)<BR>well, hang in there the next coupla weeks, there is a light at the end of the OW tunnel...

lWb --<P>My wife was pretty upset. She was crying and yelling at me. I tried to remain calm... I guess according to her I started to become distant yesterday. I don't remember being that distant. I was a little down yesterday, but not overly so. The whole situation actually started earlier in the day. She read some of what I said in this thread about the OW and got upset. Nothing she doesn't already know... oh well. I guess I could just stop posting here so she doesn't get bummed... but this forum is such a good release and I've always liked coming here and getting things off my chest or saying whatever comes to mind. <P>My son is 9 yrs old. He just started 5th grade. He's very smart. Started reading when he was 3. Last year they accelerated him a year. He should only be in 4th. He's a very sensitive kid and I'm very worried for him.<P>--andy

Your wife is probably where i am right now...OW is just too darn present, and if you are just the slightest bit "down" it sets off triggers from hell. Things will be A LOT better when you are not in the office with OW, trust me<P>My kid is headed up the same path as yours i think, and his budding brain is one of the main things that is keeping my H here.<P>Lizbeth, is there any way you can keep your H's interest by "using" the kids? Might be helpful...(hahaha, though, H's manic spending behavior prevents us from saving for college or anything, b/c he buys K so many toys!!!--gads, esp. when he feels guilty...my house is crammed with toys).<BR>see my post to dhj about it.

okay, i'm getting tired of trying to type with a baby in my lap! now, what did i want to say?...<P>Andy,<BR>I'm just guessing here, but it sounds like your wife's fears came out yesterday. I bet during those times she probably needs extra reassurance from you that you're committed to her. These situations will probably present themselves whether you post here or not. I would imagine it's a nice way for your wife to get a peek at what's going on in your heart. Sounds like this is all part of the healing process. I guess the real trick is knowing when your wife is feeling this way, huh?<P>I'm excited for your job change. Sounds like a positive move and a great opportunity. Good to get away from the OW. I imagine it will help you and your wife immensely. If I were her it would be killing me! I hate every weekday. I wonder who my H is eating lunch with, getting emails from, talking with, etc. I wish I had a car so I could stop in sometimes to say hello and check on him.<P>Thanks for answering my questions about sex. Definitely doesn't apply to our sex life. Hopefully I'll discover the problem sometime during our recovery. <P>Your son sounds like a terrific kid. I would be worried about him, too, but you sound like you're very sensitive to his feelings, so I'm sure he'll be okay in the long run. I was reading on another thread about including children in the recovery process by explaining what was happening. I wonder if he is too young for something like that?<P>lWb,<BR>just "hypomania"-- I don't know if I'd call it JUST, it can be very debilitating even if it doesn't require hospitalization. I'm sure you can attest to that! <P>Yeah!! So glad the hubby is coming back tomorrow! Do you think it will be hard to adjust? I know what you mean about your weekend. Our happiest times together are when we fantasize and shop together. We have a blast.<P>I'll never forget the first time my H came home with a new car. "YOU DID WHAT?? YOU BOUGHT A CAR???" OMG Thank God he has this paranoia about having lots of money, so we aren't starving yet. He wants to spend it, but doesn't want me to! LOL<P>Well, guys, my H is acting like nothing happened yesterday and is confused about why I could possibly be upset. Does he actually forget the things he was saying to me as he walked out the door? Well, anyway, I sent him a little email telling him how I'm feeling. He sounds very "normal" today. Maybe I'll even talk to him on the phone.<P> Lizbeth<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by Lizbeth (edited August 30, 1999).]

okay, i obviously take way too long to type my replies bacause i totally missed lwb!<P>Andy, I agree with lWb about the OW factor.<P>lWb, believe me, these little babies are my greatest asset right now! I'll check out your post...