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Joined: May 1999
Posts: 156
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What do you do?<P>You are talking nicely, a decent conversation and then accidentially without knowing it you lovebust... It wasn't even an intentional lovebust... in fact it wasn't one at all but your partner read it that way... they were sensitive to something and took the wrong meaning in something you said.<P>An argument ensues... you both get heated. You try to calm down and think rationally, you make appologies for your partner feeling hurt, explain it wasn't intended that way and ask forgiveness... they dont care, they are angry and want you to suffer. You keep calm, your voice quiet and try to resolve it, you try to reach out to show affection and you are slapped away...<P>The argument wears on with you on the back foot defending yourself left, right and centre... eventually your patience is worn down... you have spent the last 10 minutes listening to her shouting at you and finally you snap. You shout back... a quick and SINGLE comment shouted at her.<P>"DONT shout at me!!!!" she screams.<P>Excuse me? I have taken 10 minutes of her shouting at me and the one time I shout back she has the audacity to tell me not to shout????<P>What is this? Does an upset person loose absolutely EVERY shred of normality? Do they somehow suddenly go mentally insane to the point of not realising they have been shouting for so long???<P>Surely this isn't the case... but yes, when she is in this mode she is GOD, EVERYTHING she says and does is right and EVERYTHING I say and do is wrong....<P>The bottom line is to either submit to her selfish tantrum or to cause a very bad relationship fight.... nice choice.<P>So I walk away... Not good enough, SHE wants to keep going at it.. *I* dont have the right to walk away while she is upset. So we keep arguing, both of us now shouting and red faced. Then she turns away and says "*I* am out of here"....<P>WHAT?!?!?!?!? It wasn't good enough for ME to end it but now its good enough for YOU to end it?!?!?! I can't believe this now, I am enraged... its ok to have an argument, its even ok to be upset or angry about something... but SURELY!!! it is not possible someone can be so bias, so one-sides and so self-serving as this?<P>What on earth can I do? What possible recourse can I take? What possible way can I resolve this conflict in any way other than to just give in to her, admit my utter failure as a human being and sit there and take it?<P>HELP

Joined: Jun 1999
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Lostsoul,<P>We agree on one big thing. We shouldn't have to take this, why because its disrespectful. I am also a victim of what your describing happens to you. Its frustrating, it damn right hurtful and yes its wrong and unfair.<P>So what do you do about it? I wish I knew. Whenever I disagree with my husband the same thing happens to me. <P>I know that you are very angry, I know this from your last post, I replied to. Harsh I may have sounded but the reality is that when we are hurting bad, we need someone to vent at to let it all out. I know where your coming from, its all the anger resentment and damn right knowing that this other person is acting so superior that we subconsiously are angry and without any warning we give them a big lovebuster. Later we feeling sorry, after all we always forgive them. They however, the dominant, superior ones don't like to admit they do this themselves. When we ask forgiveness we need to pay. They don't why because we want to be respectful and they want to be dominant. <P>I know what the right thing to do is, not argue walk away and say I am leaving the room and I will return when you want to talk about this civil. <P>This is so hard, how can you not talk back, they are ripping shreds off us. We could take deep breaths and stick with the issue and find a solution but it just doesn't go that way. They keep going on and on and the moment we slip up or say a wrong word we get all the names under the sun hauled at us. <P>I've thought of leaving, I've thought of telling my husband all of what hurt he causes me. I am looking for a miracle that will stop him from behaving this way. I haven't found a miracle and don't think I will. <P>I wish I had the answer, if you find the answer lets us into the secret. I can though tell you you're not alone. I've read books and books of advice, none has been able to stop my spouses behaviour, has told me how not to react but to act but this is little help in stopping this behaviour as of yet.<P>I am here for you to vent to. I am hopping we get an answer soon. I going to stop now before I tell you my life story. <P>Take care<BR>Theressa

Joined: Jun 1999
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Lost soul,<P>I think it best to take a "time out" (if you will)when the arguement gets too heated and neither is wanting to listen...yes... go into another room. Express "We can come back to this after we have both calmed down" <P>Frustrating for sure. I think you have discribed a very common fighting technique between most couples...it is futile isnt it..lol...we get nowhere. I dont think anyone would be considered a conflict avoider by walking away when emotions are running to high.<P>ruby

Joined: Dec 1969
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LostSoul:<P>You're making a couple big mistakes.<P>First: lovebusting. Intentional or not, you must learn how to eliminate those behaviors. The best thing you could do for your wife is to ask her to help you eliminate these behaviors. Have her fill out the "lovebusters questionnaire" on this site, and then go over it with her (she should read it to you, you should shut up and listen... [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] ).<P>Remember, intentional or not, lovebusting has no place in a marriage.<P>Now, what do you do after you lovebust. You apologize!!! And that's it. If you even remotely try to "defend" yourself by educating your poor, ignorant wife on what you were REALLY trying to get across to her (but she's too stupid to understand)... you get the point.<P>I've done plenty of counseling with Steve Harley here. The rule is "Apologize, never DEFEND!!"<P>Your fights remind me of the fights my wife and I use to have---daily!! And for the record, we almost never fight now. You may use phrases like "I feel as though you're angry (being disrespectful/demanding...)---I'll try to listen, but this makes it hard...). There are other ways to defuse a fight---I suggest that you go to Amazon.com and order a nice little book entitled "Communication Miracles for Couples". There are several good ideas in this, and it's an extremely quick read.<P>I suggest that you focus primarily on eliminating your lovebusting. Her's seems to be a defensive reaction to your behavior---control your behavior, you resolve the situation. As she sees you control your behavior (and goes through the process of identifying the things that upser her the most), she'll learn from the process. If she sees you being successful with it, she'll likely try the same (either informally or "formally" going through the same process).<P>Take it from a former "lovebuster" champ---this process can work. And just one of you doing it will make a huge difference.

Joined: May 1999
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Well its interesting you said "time out"...<P>Because that is what I try to do... but you see you cannot do that when THEY have decided to tear strips off you...<P>Like I said, its ok when THEY want to storm out... but when you politely and calmly say to them "We are not doing anything positive her, I am going to leave the room before I say something that hurts you and we can talk about this later" it causes only anger because they are looking for a fight.<P>K... oh man... you are *so* wrong on this. Yes, I *do* lovebust... but that is after I have been battered senseless by 10-20 lovebusters FROM her... I cannot stay, I cannot leave and no matter what way I turn the argument doesn't end until SHE says it ends.<P>You are treading dangerous ground when you try to tell a person who lovebusts ONCE and only after getting 10-20 of his own that HE is making a mistake!!!!! Every time you reply to something of mine you ALWAYS make it out to be my problem, mine to fix.<P>Its been 4-5 months since I was on here last having this same conversation with you... and I have spent those 4-5 months meeting ALL 10 of her needs, reducing my lovebusters to only those times I was pushed too far (ie got 10-20 in a row) and have done everything in my power to make her happy.<P>Even after all this... and seeing the delight and wonder on her face about how "happy" she is.... there is nothing coming back STILL!!! She love busts me all the time, even trying to sit down and have a quiet, non-threatening and self-directed (ie works like "I feel") conversation it doesn't work. My needs are STILL going unmet and even though she is in a state of intimacy... instead of GIVING like everyone here says she will do... she keeps taking.<P>So please K... I dont mean to sound rude but for once in your life LISTEN to what I am saying instead of burning witches ok?<P>As you American's so much like to put it "I have been there, seen that, went to the garage sale and bought the T-Shirt"... your not telling me anything new and nothing I haven't done a thousand times.<P>Be fair PLEASE

Joined: Dec 1969
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LostSoul,<P>I'm being fair with you---the issue is that you are here, seeking help. Your wife isn't. We can debate for days about what she SHOULD and COULD be doing, but that's not going to help.<P>Your attitude---"she did it to me first!!" in terms of lovebusters is completely wrong. It's never OK to be disrespectful, selfish, dishonest, or use angry outbursts (different than appropriately expressing anger). Not even (or especially) in retaliation. <P>I'm guessing that you're "whoami" in a reincarnated form. I'm sorry that you're still having problems in the marriage. And isn't it reassuring to know that whatever my faults---at least I'm consistant. And yes---my posts always focus on what the person posting can do. Even when they're being "wronged"---it's the only reasonable focus. If I posted a list of stuff for your wife to do and you gave it to her---what would happen?? Exactly.<P>I read where you're relationship is "over". I think that's appropriate at this point to separate---you're worn out from giving, and you perceive that your wife doesn't give you credit for what you've been doing. Continue to work on the lovebusters (turn the other cheek) when you have opportunity, and see how an absence will help. You may have a chance to repair the relationship, if she discovers that she misses you "meeting those needs". Your decision will rest on whether you want to reconcile, and whether she'll meet the conditions (acknowledging and meeting your needs, eliminating lovebusters) that you'll need.<P>You portray your wife as the most selfish, egocentric person on the planet---that she's incapable of acknowledging your needs, let alone meeting them. If that is true, then you will be better off without her. I know that this isn't much comfort now, but time will heal this for you. And if you feel that you've done everything you can, then when you no longer love her, it'll be time to move on. And if you've worked at learning these relationship skills, you'll be in much better shape to make your next relationship work.<P>I'm sorry that this marriage hasn't worked for you. Chin up.

Joined: May 1999
Posts: 156
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K, Was that so hard to give me a kind word at the end? ;-)<P>I would never use a "list" put on here to show her nor would I ever use anybody on here agreeing with how wrong she has been as "ammunition".<P>All I wanted to know was that I am not crazy, that I have not totally lost my tree and that what she has done is actually a reason for me feeling the way I do and not me just reading it wrong.<P>Yes she does come across as the most selfish person on the planet.... but I think all of this is because of how hurt she has been in passed relationships.. ours just compounded it. The break was an unusual one, it was still to do with loving me utterly, needing me totally, wanting to be friends for an eternity... but not being able to cope with being in "ANY" relationship.<P>I think ours started too soon after a long string of others finished and she never had time to find out who "SHE" really was... and now she is doing that.<P>Do you honestly think there could be any hope of it being fixed? I have always been reluctant in the passed to accept that someone who wants to end the relationship and stay apart ever finds feelings of missing me and changing their mind in wanting to come back.<P>But that is just my negativity.<P>I am torn, half of me says "wait for her, let her deal with what she needs and be there **if** she decided she needs me" and the other half says "you have missed out on so much throughout all this, go get what you need, what you have wanted.. use this opportunity of being single to finally get your needs met". The first will cause me pain if I am wrong... but if I do the second and she comes back, it would kill me completely!!!<P>Is it considered an affair when your partner tells you its over and that friendship is the only option and you sleep with someone else and then they come back?<P>I dont know... I just know I have lost a lot of affection and a lot of intimacy through this and I REALLY need to find some, especially now that there is no-one here to even get the smallest drops from [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

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LostSoul,<P>I would take a break and go away just for a few days. Take a trip and allow yourself to have quiet and peace. Agree with your wife that you will be back in a few days and then you want to talk. <P>You must lay down on the table that you love her and want to do what makes her happy but you are loosing your strength. You must tell her you want to go to counselling together and sort this all out if you are to go on.<P>I think that a third party such as a counsellor is your best hope. I think you two are too emotionally involve to be able to show one another what is happening. I am here for you but I think that you need to start to take down the wall that is starting to build up before it reaches too high. You will soon go into withdrawal, sort this out before it is too late.<P>Your wife has her problems from past relationships but this cannot rule your current marriage forever so sort it out now. <P>You deserve to have help in sorting out this marriage. Contact Dr Harley or another counsellor.<P>Take the break for a few days.<P>Take care, we are here for you<BR>Theressa

Joined: Dec 1969
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LostSoul,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Is it considered an affair when your partner tells you its over and that friendship is the only option and you sleep with someone else and then they come back?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Certainly it is if you two are married. If you're not, the issue is more gray. <P>I'd be concerned for you if you're looking for sex and affection and a "long-term" relationship immediately. As you mentioned, part of your wife's problems may stem from the fact that your relationship with her was a "rebound" type relationship. You should be very wary of putting yourself and someone else through that.<P>Have you asked her how she would feel about you dating? If she's taken aback, it probably indicates that she's confused about how she feels about you. From how you illustrate your situation, I'd advise you to go a few (say 6) months with little or no contact with her. I'd even recommend that you write a separation letter where you state your love for her, and let her know that you'd be willing to give the relationship a try if she returns. Take those 6 months to let yourself heal. Do things that you're interested in doing---with the exception of dating.<P>Evaluate your situation at the end of that period. I think that should be ample time for your wife to start to sort out her feelings. It's also a way for you to heal---if at the end of this period, you feel you're better off without your wife, then I'd initiate a divorce. If you're seeing some progress, I'd stick with what's working.<P>

Joined: May 1999
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Thank you Theressa and K,<P>There are some things I know about myself that are inevitable. Being alone saps my strength, being with out affection saps my strength...<P>It is something I have talked to councellors with and something I feel is too deeply rooted into my very soul to ever be able to change. If I am to heal then I MUST have someone around... not necessarily a relationship because I realise now that in the strictest terms I dont do well in relationships.<P>But I need to have friends around... not just those I can talk to, nor those I can "do things" with... but those I can hug on occasion, those I can share affection and perhaps even those with whom I can be intimate with.<P>I know this wont go down well... that everyone on here will say how bad that is, but I have taken these issues and "needs" of mine to people who can help and they have all said it is too big a part of me to deal with... I was just built to have affection.<P>I also seem to "draw" affection to me and have seen people adamant to be themselves seduced by my nature and seek it with me... One girl was being habitually single and had been happily so for 3 years. Her life was a selfish consumation of being on her own... and not long after meeting me she broke her own value and we shared affection.<P>Don't ask me what it is, if I knew I would turn it off... But it seems my life is cursed to always have affection around me, drawn to me but to always end up without it and seeking it so much.<P>In case none of you got the pun... have a think what "cupids _arrow_" means?


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