So what do you do when the spouse won't agree with this policy?

SueB,<P> One answer: perhaps a close look at what the alternatives to the POJA may bring.<P>What could possibly be objectionable to living under a mutually applied policy that insured that no pain would be inflicted or tolerated? What more could one ask for from a relationship than one in which every action undertaken is done so with the better parts of our Givers and Takers satisfied? How more gratifying could a relationship be if we knew that we had the enthusiastic support of our spouse in all decisions?<P>What will you be missing without using the POJA? Only the pain and heartaches that you have been inflicting upon each other without it. Using the POJA will insure that each and every decision that you make will strike a balance between the interests of you both. It may seem troublesome at first, but believe me, it will correct all injustices in a relationship. Things go slowly in the beginning but as soon as you start seeing the benefits, the Policy becomes automatic and you use it without even thinking about doing so. Give it a try for a short time, say three or four days; read your lessons so that you will implement it correctly and then see what happens. What could you have to loose?

SueB,<P>It sound like your spouse doesn't understand the POJA and is suspicious that it is just a ploy by you to get what you want or keep him from getting what he wants. I would press your spouse for reasons for objecting to the POJA. This might lead to further discussion and perhaps better understanding. I sense more then anything that he is wary of your motives.

Thanks for responding.<BR>Noggin, he just isin't in that place yet to see any possible benefits from it.<P>Mudder, yes he says he is consumed by fear of abandonment...and then insists that his needs be met 100% of the time, no matter what, the biggest one is nudism. Gave me an analogy of me asking for a cup of coffee and then him giving me a glass of hot water instead. I am supposed to understand his emotions from that. I don't. If he didn't get me a cup of coffee, I would get up and get it myself if I wanted one that bad. I say nothing about him running around nude 'cause it is his thing and important to him. I think to myself if your fear of abandonment is so strong then why are you pushing me out the door? He rages, screams, yells, says horrible nasty things, attempts to intimidate. Pasotr says one of us has to die to self. o what does that mean then? I gotta be a zombie to his every wish so he feels good about himself? Is that really building him up?

SueB,<P>With all respect to your pastor, you both need to die to self. That is what a happy marriage is about always seeking to please the other person. You sound like you are doing just that. Your husband should feel free to ask you do to try "his thing" but should never push you if you say I'm uncomfortable with it. Trust me being nude is NOT an emotional need. It probably is a substitute for something else that he is missing though. <P>In my objective oppinion he has placed more value on his desire then on your comfort. You spell that S E L F I S H N E S S. <P>My wife and I enjoy going to a place that offers us the privacy to be without clothes, but it is just the two of us. We rent a villa (house) in the virgin islands for a week. In fact we just got back last Sunday night. Now I could go to a place where others are also nude and it would not bother me but my wife would be uncomfortable there. <P>I have a question for your pastor. Is he suggesting that you do something that bothers you to pacify your husband? If he is find someone else to cousel you. A marriage must be based on agreement. If a party is forced or coerced into doing something it is only a matter of time before resentment splits that marriage apart. You need to find a couselor who will address your husnbands blatant disregard for your feelings and his boyish selfishness.

Mudder, thanks for the reply, no actually pastor wasn't saying that but more that someone has to make the first move to break the cycle and hopefully in saying that he would get some kind of reaction from H. It does take two to make a good marriage I realize and I agree that dying to self needs to happen both ways. Pastor's thought was if I could learn to be more sensitive to his abandonment issues, including his present perception that God doesn't care enough about the small things in his life, that I could somehow help him to see God through me which would ease the fear and help him to begin work on the other issues. I am not blameless in this either as I seem to be building a wall here to in response to his demands. H kind of lost it today and astor came over and was here for almost 4 hours. I really do appreciate his insight and no, he isn't saying I should do this, per se, but that I need to explore my feelings in this and to determine my limits and be able to verbalize that in a non-threatening way and to allow my H to deal with his feelings about that. <BR>Pastor would agree with you in regards to agreement, my H is not in an emotional state to hear directly that he is being selfish per se, but Pastor has numerus times showed him how his statements to me are a demand and not a choice and that he has no rights to make demands on me that put me in a compromising position.<BR>

SueB,<BR>I'm glad to hear that your pastor is more on target than I first thought. I didn't realize that your H has an emotional past that seems to be at the root of how he (inappropriately) expresses himeself to you. Is he (and you) in counseling for his abandonment issues? Most pastors are not equipped to handle matters like that. If you and your H are not seeing a counselor for this, ask your pastor for a referal to a good Christian counselor. <P>Just a question. Did your H have this "need" to pursue nudism as a life style before you were married or is this new? <P>I'm sure you realize that the issue here is NOT nudism but respect. Has your H read about love busters on this site? Does he understant even the most basic concepts of cooperation and compromise or is his mind too clouded by his emotional issues to grasp them. I would think if that was the case he wouldn't even be able to function in society. He couldn't be acting this way towards people in his work place or he would be out of a job. Again I don't know how messed up he is but if he can be "civil" with most people why can't he be that way with you, the woman he married? Sorry for so many questions. I guess I'm at a loss to offer any help and am frustrated by that.<P>

Hi Mudder, I don't mind the questions. It helps me think through things. No, my H isn't seeking any other counseling. (He says he is not the one with the problem) He desparately agreed to pursue this as a last straw I think, with hopes that Pastor would agree to his understanding of submission and that I would have to comply. He also uses it as manipulation, look what I am doing for you and you can't do this for me type of thing. See, I told you that you didn't care about me....sigh.<P>Yes, my H told me of his nudism lifestyle prior to our marriage but said he would never push it off on me. I accepted this quirk of his because we all have something strange about us. This was kind of a closet thing for him and after we were married, he wanted to come out of the closet as a "we" thing and I refused to allow this. He wrote his mother a letter that revealed his anger towards her and she was convinced that it must have come from me and again, I refuse to own someone else's behavior and I went directly to her. God really blessed me with this MIL.<P>I see the issues as one of respect as you do, but he does not agree. Anything contrary to what he wants is viewed as abandonment. I have shared with him the verses about giving your kid a scorpion rather than an egg, etc but his struggle I think is really with God rather than with me. I printed out all of the stuff on this site but doubt that he read much of it. Can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink....<P>I think he may act similarly this way in his work environment, knowing that he has missed work because he was too upset to go and they let him do that. I gather that he is highly intelligent in his job and they put up with his idiosyncrisies due to his skill at what he does. I know before we were married, that he had many problems with the women that he works with and I do believe that had to do with a lack of respect for them as well. As far as why he can't be civil with me, I think his expectations of me are far greater than the rest of the wqolrd and therefore, if I act like the rest of the world I have let him down....I remind him of his mother and his ex-wife, who I know have a praying relationship with, trying to focus the importance of the children's well-being above their personal differences. She says he pushed for swapping as well, but he says that was her idea, so who knows...?<P>I just know that I seek ideas on how to show him respect in spite of himself and still maintain a healthy balance for my own mental well being. I guess that I can only pray that God will keep calling his name to the point of him breaking and perhaps getting some real help. He says that if he died today, that it wouldn't matter to me, that I would go on with my life as if this never happened. I ran out of ideas on how to show him the positive impact on my life he has made. Thanks for letting me ramble.