This might set off more arguments than the "we were on a break" episode of Friends, but I need to put this out there for discussion and opinions.<P>I started dating my wife about 8 years ago. After one or two dates, I wasn't sure where it was going, but I wanted to be as up front with her as possible, so I told her that I liked her, but also wanted her to know that I was still seeing other women and that the relationship was not exclusive. Her immediate reaction was "I don't want to share you and if you're dating someone else I don't want to date anymore.." I said that was fine, no hard feelings, and I figured that was it. A few days later she called back and said "I don't care of you're dating other women, I still want to go out with you." I said that was also fine, and we started dating again. After we became intimate, she found a shirt with lipstick on it, and asked where it came from, I didn't care to lie, so I told her it came from another woman I was dating. She asked if I slept with the other woman, and I said "yes." She was quiet for a while, and then she said 'I can't believe that you cheated on me." I said "I told you that I was seeing other people, I didn't 'cheat' on anyone." This argument went on for years after I stopped dating other women and has even continued into our married life.<P>So my question to you good women and men out there is.. do you think I cheated?

My answer would be no.<P>But then, since I'm not your wife, my opinion doesn't mean a thing...hers is the opinion that counts. Whatever the "legal" defintion, she felt cheated on...<BR>

No, you did not 'cheat' on her. <P>The classy thing to do, however, would be to tell her you are sorry you didn't commit to her sooner. It sounds as if your wife has some insecurities about your former relationships. I would lay it on rather thick, therefore. She is the best you ever had, love with her has an emotional depth you never experienced anywhere else, you are delighted you married her, no other woman can compare, etc., etc. You know the line. You can pitch it in pretty hard. Best time to do this would be some time she doesn't expect it. If you bring it out during some argument over whether or not you cheated, it loses its impact. <P>If the situation is as it appears to an outsider, you have found a hot button you will be able to press to add major love units to your wife's love bank. <P>This isn't really a discussion about the technicalities of when you committed to the relationship, and whether it was soon enough. Your wife is just communicating that her feelings were hurt. Rightly or wrongly, feelings are facts. If you can re-frame this as something she won because she is so wonderful, you can change a negative to a positive. <P>Give it a shot. A lot of women go for this sort of thing in a big way.<P>Regards,<BR>rs0522

Woody,<P>One question, did this discovery occur to her after she had already slept with you also? <P>If so, perhaps she felt that if you were sleeping with her then you would not be sleeping with other women also.<P>A classic case of "you should know how I think about a situation like this". <P>In hind sight, what would have been best is for her to explain, before the heat of the moment occured , that by sleeping with you she expected that she be the only woman for you from that point on.<P>Miscommunication!<BR> <BR>

Yes, I suppose that even though I feel I did everything I could to be up front and honest about my life, the human tendency to be presumptuous reared its ugly head. I guess what really happened was that her feelings were hurt and she's retained this event as a way to hurt my feelings in return when the subject comes up.<P>Thanks for answering.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by trying to rebuild:<BR><B>Woody,<P>One question, did this discovery occur to her after she had already slept with you also? <P>If so, perhaps she felt that if you were sleeping with her then you would not be sleeping with other women also.<P>A classic case of "you should know how I think about a situation like this". <P>In hind sight, what would have been best is for her to explain, before the heat of the moment occured , that by sleeping with you she expected that she be the only woman for you from that point on.<P>Miscommunication!<BR> </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

ONe thing...<BR>I doubt that she's intentionally hanging on to this event so she can beat you over the head with it. Rather, she beats you over the head with it bcs it still hurts her deeply.<P>I do agree with you that it wasn't cheating... BUT the important thing to realize is that to her it FELT like you cheating. She needs to know these things:<P>1) you understand why she feels the way she does, and will not try to argue her out of her feelings (big LB).<P>2) you deeply regret ever hurting her, and wish you could take that all back.<P>3) you will do your d*amndest not to hurt her again...that she is the most important thing in the world to you...<P>Kathi

Maybe your wife thought that "dating" meant, you know, going out with, having dinner, seeing a movie. <P>Maybe she didn't understand that to you "dating" meant have sex with more than one woman at a time. <P>If it had been me, I would have stopped "dating" you then. But she chose to continue on and marry you. <P>I've followed your story from your other threads on "emotional needs" and I would have to say that your wife has definitely set up her life to play out to prove her point that you can't trust people and that she's not worthy of better things. <P>I am not saying that you haven't been a good husband, now. I don't know. But as I said, for me, even though I had similar insecurities during our dating years...if my boyfriend was sleeping with me and another woman (women) at the same time, I would have ended it then. <P>It seems that this relationship has always been out of balance with you being the one that felt he could take it or leave it, and her being desperate and chasing you all the time. <P>No wonder she feels badly about herself.

I know this is going to sound cold, but at the time I would have understood completely if she stopped dating me. What is important to me is that didn't lie or conduct myself in a dishonest way. She was angry because I wasn't overwhelmed enough by her affection to immediately stop seeing anyone else and make her the center of my universe. We all have that desire within us, however unrealistic. I look back now and if I had lied to her and then let things take their course, we'd still be married, she would never know what I did, and I can't see any repercusssions--but I'd know I lied, and that is point of this whole thread. I was honest instead of just telling her what she wanted to hear, and that kind of honesty is something most people can't handle, even when they claim to desire it. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lisanne:<BR><B>Maybe your wife thought that "dating" meant, you know, going out with, having dinner, seeing a movie. <P>Maybe she didn't understand that to you "dating" meant have sex with more than one woman at a time. <P>If it had been me, I would have stopped "dating" you then. But she chose to continue on and marry you. <P>I've followed your story from your other threads on "emotional needs" and I would have to say that your wife has definitely set up her life to play out to prove her point that you can't trust people and that she's not worthy of better things. <P>I am not saying that you haven't been a good husband, now. I don't know. But as I said, for me, even though I had similar insecurities during our dating years...if my boyfriend was sleeping with me and another woman (women) at the same time, I would have ended it then. <P>It seems that this relationship has always been out of balance with you being the one that felt he could take it or leave it, and her being desperate and chasing you all the time. <P>No wonder she feels badly about herself. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

I WOULD HAVE TO SAY NO <BR>IF SHE FEELS CHEATED, AND YOU WERE UP FRONT ABOUT YOUR INTENTIONS , THAN IT IS HER FAULT FOR EXPECTING MORE, OR NOT THINKING MORE OF HERSELF AT THE TIME, IT IS NOT YOU WHO DISAPPOINTED HER , SHE DISSAPPOINTED HERSELF, BY SEEING HERSELF IN THAT SITUATION..... I WOUNLDN'T WORRY TOO MUCH ABOUT THIS <BR>FROM THE ADVICE OF A WOMEN , <BR>JUST TREAT HER LIKE SHE IS YOUR BABY THROUGH AND THROUGH AND THE PAST WILL WORK ITSELF OUT ....<BR>GOOD LUCK ........ RIVER <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Woody:<BR><B>This might set off more arguments than the "we were on a break" episode of Friends, but I need to put this out there for discussion and opinions.<P>I started dating my wife about 8 years ago. After one or two dates, I wasn't sure where it was going, but I wanted to be as up front with her as possible, so I told her that I liked her, but also wanted her to know that I was still seeing other women and that the relationship was not exclusive. Her immediate reaction was "I don't want to share you and if you're dating someone else I don't want to date anymore.." I said that was fine, no hard feelings, and I figured that was it. A few days later she called back and said "I don't care of you're dating other women, I still want to go out with you." I said that was also fine, and we started dating again. After we became intimate, she found a shirt with lipstick on it, and asked where it came from, I didn't care to lie, so I told her it came from another woman I was dating. She asked if I slept with the other woman, and I said "yes." She was quiet for a while, and then she said 'I can't believe that you cheated on me." I said "I told you that I was seeing other people, I didn't 'cheat' on anyone." This argument went on for years after I stopped dating other women and has even continued into our married life.<P>So my question to you good women and men out there is.. do you think I cheated?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Woody:<BR><B>A few days later she called back and said "I don't care of you're dating other women, I still want to go out with you." I said that was also fine, and we started dating again. After we became intimate, she found a shirt with lipstick on it, and asked where it came from, I didn't care to lie, so I told her it came from another woman I was dating. She asked if I slept with the other woman, and I said "yes." She was quiet for a while, and then she said 'I can't believe that you cheated on me."</B><P>Why do I have the feeling that your W would not remember events the way you lay them out above?

No, I don't think it was cheating then, you fully explained to her that you would be seeing others. That she still brings it up means just as others have said, it still hurts. She needs to let got of this, as you are married now, and what she should concentrate on is what you are doing at this moment. Everyone makes mistakes. She wouldn't be the first woman to hope that just because she was exclusively yours, that you would respond in kind. She would also not be the first woman to find out that men think of things differently in that respect. To her, she made a commitment to you when you became intimate, and she expected the fact that you became intimate to be a sign that you were committed to only her. Unfortunately, it's never really so at that point. It's that "Mars, Venus" stuff at work again. Considering the differing POV's men and women have on such important subjects as these, it's a wonder anyone's marriage ever makes it. I guess the secret is just learning to share the view! Just keep holding on, and do what you can to assure her that you are committed to her now.

She actually does, but still says I cheated on her. She's not big on changing her mind. I've nicknamed her the attorney, because in an argument the first thing she wants to establish is that 1) It's my fault, 2) it's not her fault, so 3) the only course of action is for me to apologize and do it her way. <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mike C2:<BR><B>[QUOTE]Originally posted by Woody:<BR>A few days later she called back and said "I don't care of you're dating other women, I still want to go out with you." I said that was also fine, and we started dating again. After we became intimate, she found a shirt with lipstick on it, and asked where it came from, I didn't care to lie, so I told her it came from another woman I was dating. She asked if I slept with the other woman, and I said "yes." She was quiet for a while, and then she said 'I can't believe that you cheated on me."</B><P>Why do I have the feeling that your W would not remember events the way you lay them out above?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Woody:<BR><B>She actually does, but still says I cheated on her.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well, that is patently illogical if she admits that you both agreed to see other people, and then says that you doing it was somehow a breach of trust.<P>Obviously, what she is really saying is that it hurt her that you slept with another woman during that early period in your relationship, and she fears that you will do it again. So address that.<P>So, apologize for the misunderstanding and ask her to drop the subject. Sometimes you have to thrown your spouse a bone and let them win an argument even though they have a weak hand <BR>