My husband and I separated for two weeks in order to give each other some space and think about where we are in our relationship. It was my choice to leave since things were not good in our home. After I returned he mentioned that he ordered Playboy (which he knows how much I dislike that magazine). When I was shocked and upset and told him that he knew how I felt about that magazine and that I think it objectifies women and that I don't approve of it, he became very defensive and started calling me immature and childish and insecure. He said that he ordered it when we weren't together and he though we were going to divorce. (I never ever lead him to think that I wanted a divorce). We had another discussion about the magazine after he got some advice from a friend and insisted that I am insecure and that I need to deal with that issue and that he's still getting the magazine. I continued to stress to him that I have the right to not approve of that magazine and that it has nothing to do with insecurities. The magazine arrived and he left it out and I saw it in our bedroom. I mentioned it to him and told him that I don't approve of it and that it objectifies women, etc... He got defensive and continued to say that it is my issue and my insecurities and I need to get over it. Later I told him that it hurt my feelings that he insists on bringing the magazine into our home when he knows how I feel about it and that if he has to have it, that I would prefer it not be in our home. I further stated that I want to be respected as his wife and that my feelings should be taken into consideration by him. He continues to think that I have some problem and he tried to justify it by stating that the magazine is classy and is a gentleman's magazine and that I need to be more open-minded. I further informed him that I feel that I have the right to have an opinion and a feeling about it and by being open-minded will not change my beliefs and morals. He basically wants me to change my feelings and accept it. I don't think I will ever accept it. If he wants to read it, I wish he would do it on his own time and not in my presence and I certainly don't want to see it around the house. I am upset that he thinks that I have to "deal with it" and get over how I feel. Do any of you think I am making more of this than there is and should just learn to accept it or do I actually have the right to feel the way I do and request that it not be in my presence or view? Any advice or thoughts are appreciated. Also, any advice of what I should say to my husband are also appreciated.

Sounds like a power struggle to me. <P>You want your husband to give up the magazine; he wants to keep it. I can't think of a good reason to encourage him to keep his magazine, nor can I think of a good reason to encourage you to try to make him give it up.<P>The Policy of Joint Agreement says that you need to find a resolution to this situation that both of you can agree to enthusiastically. If you cannot find such a solution, you need to do nothing.<P>What, therefore, can you and your husband come up with as ideas that will make both of you happy? You are both stuck in the 'Yes you will" - 'No I won't' stage of an argument that is going nowhere. <P>You object to the pictures (I presume), and your husband likes them (I presume). How about suggesting that you pose for a few pictures for your husband every month in return for cancelling the subscription? <P>Better still, ask your husband what he would like to suggest as an resolution, or tell him what you have thought up yourself. <P>As long as this is phrased as a situation where one of you gets pushed into accepting the demands of the other, both of you lose the argument.<P>Feelings are facts. If you are offended by Playboy magazine, that is something to respect. Whatever your husband wants out of Playboy is something to respect as well. <P>Neither of you are wrong, and both of you are wrong. Therefore stop trying to establish who is wrong and find a way to meet each others' needs.<P>Regards,<BR>rs0522

[QUOTE]Originally posted by cdlinaz:<BR><B>I further informed him that I feel that I have the right to have an opinion and a feeling about it and by being open-minded will not change my beliefs and morals.</B><P>That is surely your right.<P>However, it is his right too. This isn't an issue where one of you is morally wrong and one of you is morally upright. There are couples that won't go to PG movies...there are couples that enjoy watching erotic movies together. The fact that you two have a disparity on the issue shouldn't be a source of conflict, unless one of you makes it one by trying to enforce their values on their reluctant partner. <P>Coming out of a separation, surely you have more important things to work on in your marriage then a silly fight about this.<P>If I were you, I would ask him to keep his magazines out of sight. Trust me, that is probably his instinct anyway, he is probably just making a point by leaving them around, since you are fighting about it. The natural living environment for a Playboy magazine is a dark drawer.<P>You say you don't want the magazine being brought into "your house". It is his house too, right? He isn't making you read them, you shouldn't try to prevent him from doing so. <BR>

I agree with you and I believe my husband would also. I believe that Playboy and other pornographic materials can destroy marriages. However, I do agree with rs0522's idea to suggest that you pose for pictures for your husband in return for his cancelling the subscription. If this is a desire or need of his, he should be looking at pictures of you and focusing all of his sexual desires on his wife, not other women!<P>PS I wonder what he would think if you sat around looking at photos of nude men???

Please.. This all seems so ninny nanny and bossy and controlling. <P>I equate this desire of his to a small vice. I'm sure that you may have a vice or two. Are you perfect. <P>Allow him to have his vice or maybe you guys can both give up a vice together. One that is equally hard to give up as his.<P>It'll be like LENT. Giving up something you like for each other though.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cdlinaz:<BR><B>My husband and I separated for two weeks in order to give each other some space and think about where we are in our relationship. It was my choice to leave since things were not good in our home. After I returned he mentioned that he ordered Playboy (which he knows how much I dislike that magazine). When I was shocked and upset and told him that he knew how I felt about that magazine and that I think it objectifies women and that I don't approve of it, he became very defensive and started calling me immature and childish and insecure. He said that he ordered it when we weren't together and he though we were going to divorce. (I never ever lead him to think that I wanted a divorce). We had another discussion about the magazine after he got some advice from a friend and insisted that I am insecure and that I need to deal with that issue and that he's still getting the magazine. I continued to stress to him that I have the right to not approve of that magazine and that it has nothing to do with insecurities. The magazine arrived and he left it out and I saw it in our bedroom. I mentioned it to him and told him that I don't approve of it and that it objectifies women, etc... He got defensive and continued to say that it is my issue and my insecurities and I need to get over it. Later I told him that it hurt my feelings that he insists on bringing the magazine into our home when he knows how I feel about it and that if he has to have it, that I would prefer it not be in our home. I further stated that I want to be respected as his wife and that my feelings should be taken into consideration by him. He continues to think that I have some problem and he tried to justify it by stating that the magazine is classy and is a gentleman's magazine and that I need to be more open-minded. I further informed him that I feel that I have the right to have an opinion and a feeling about it and by being open-minded will not change my beliefs and morals. He basically wants me to change my feelings and accept it. I don't think I will ever accept it. If he wants to read it, I wish he would do it on his own time and not in my presence and I certainly don't want to see it around the house. I am upset that he thinks that I have to "deal with it" and get over how I feel. Do any of you think I am making more of this than there is and should just learn to accept it or do I actually have the right to feel the way I do and request that it not be in my presence or view? Any advice or thoughts are appreciated. Also, any advice of what I should say to my husband are also appreciated.<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>One thing to keep in mind is that the women who pose for magazines demonstrate they have no qualms about contributing the opinion alluding to women as "objects." <P>Secondly, I noticed your husband respected you enough to let you know he ordered the magazne. He acknowledged you just by mentioning it to you. He also stated why he ordered the magazine.<P>My husband used to indulge in adult material until one day he realized he wanted me to look like the women in the literature. He said he ompared what he had to offer me to what he wanted from me. <P>Prior to his "revelation" I initiated conversation about his first look at adult material, how did he get to see it etc.,<P>The word "insecurities" has become such a buzzword and a racket that people don't get past using it as the "cure all" and "end all" answer to issues they don't know how to confront.<P>When we look at one issue from different viewpoints we never see the solution right away. <P>Your husband doesn't see the "big deal" about the magazine because you haven't helped to see the "real reason" it is offensive to you.<P>I admire your empathy for women's issues, but that magazine is not enough to make trouble arise in your home.<P>Just talk to your husband about him and don't forget to listen, too. <P><P>------------------<BR>Love hurts no one.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AGoodPhrend:<BR><B> [QUOTE]Originally posted by cdlinaz:<BR>[b]My husband and I separated for two weeks in order to give each other some space and think about where we are in our relationship. It was my choice to leave since things were not good in our home. After I returned he mentioned that he ordered Playboy (which he knows how much I dislike that magazine). When I was shocked and upset and told him that he knew how I felt about that magazine and that I think it objectifies women and that I don't approve of it, he became very defensive and started calling me immature and childish and insecure. He said that he ordered it when we weren't together and he though we were going to divorce. (I never ever lead him to think that I wanted a divorce). We had another discussion about the magazine after he got some advice from a friend and insisted that I am insecure and that I need to deal with that issue and that he's still getting the magazine.<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>One thing to keep in mind is that the women who pose for magazines demonstrate they have no qualms about contributing to the opinion alluding to women as "objects." <P>Secondly, I noticed your husband respected you enough to let you know he ordered the magazne. He could have just let you see it by surprise. He acknowledged you just by mentioning it to you. He also stated why he ordered the magazine.<P>My husband used to indulge in adult material until one day he realized he wanted me to look like the women in the literature. He said he compared what he had to offer me to what he wanted from me. <P>Prior to his "revelation" I initiated conversation about his first look at adult material, how did he get to see it etc.,<P>The word "insecurities" has become such a buzzword and a racket that people don't get past using it as the "cure all" and "end all" answer to issues they don't know how to confront.<P>When we look at one issue from different viewpoints we never see the solution right away. <P>Your husband doesn't see the "big deal" about the magazine because you haven't helped to see the "real reason" it is offensive to you.<P>I admire your empathy for women's issues, but that magazine is not enough to make trouble in your house.<P>Just talk to your husband about him and don't forget to listen, too. <P><P>------------------<BR>Love hurts no one.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AGoodPhrend:<BR><B> [QUOTE]Originally posted by cdlinaz:<BR>[b]My husband and I separated for two weeks in order to give each other some space and think about where we are in our relationship. It was my choice to leave since things were not good in our home. After I returned he mentioned that he ordered Playboy (which he knows how much I dislike that magazine). When I was shocked and upset and told him that he knew how I felt about that magazine and that I think it objectifies women and that I don't approve of it, he became very defensive and started calling me immature and childish and insecure. He said that he ordered it when we weren't together and he though we were going to divorce. (I never ever lead him to think that I wanted a divorce). We had another discussion about the magazine after he got some advice from a friend and insisted that I am insecure and that I need to deal with that issue and that he's still getting the magazine. I continued to stress to him that I have the right to not approve of that magazine and that it has nothing to do with insecurities. The magazine arrived and he left it out and I saw it in our bedroom. I mentioned it to him and told him that I don't approve of it and that it objectifies women, etc... He got defensive and continued to say that it is my issue and my insecurities and I need to get over it. Later I told him that it hurt my feelings that he insists on bringing the magazine into our home when he knows how I feel about it and that if he has to have it, that I would prefer it not be in our home. I further stated that I want to be respected as his wife and that my feelings should be taken into consideration by him. He continues to think that I have some problem and he tried to justify it by stating that the magazine is classy and is a gentleman's magazine and that I need to be more open-minded. I further informed him that I feel that I have the right to have an opinion and a feeling about it and by being open-minded will not change my beliefs and morals. He basically wants me to change my feelings and accept it. I don't think I will ever accept it. If he wants to read it, I wish he would do it on his own time and not in my presence and I certainly don't want to see it around the house. I am upset that he thinks that I have to "deal with it" and get over how I feel. Do any of you think I am making more of this than there is and should just learn to accept it or do I actually have the right to feel the way I do and request that it not be in my presence or view? Any advice or thoughts are appreciated. Also, any advice of what I should say to my husband are also appreciated.<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>One thing to keep in mind is that the women who pose for magazines demonstrate they have no qualms about contributing to the opinion alluding to women as "objects." <P>Secondly, I noticed your husband respected you enough to let you know he ordered the magazne. He acknowledged you just by mentioning it to you. He also stated why he ordered the magazine. There was no way for you to know your leaving would be conducive to his ordering Playboy. So, don't beat yourself up about it. <P>My husband used to indulge in adult material until one day he realized he wanted me to look like the women in the literature. He said he compared what he had to offer me to what he wanted from me. <P>Prior to his "revelation" I initiated conversation about his first look at adult material, how did he get to see it etc.,<P>The word "insecurities" has become such a buzzword and a racket that people don't get past using it as the "cure all" and "end all" answer to issues they don't know how to confront.<P>When we look at one issue from different viewpoints we never see the actual solution right away. <P>Your husband doesn't see the "big deal" about the magazine because you haven't helped him to see the "real reason" it is offensive to you.<P>I admire your empathy for women's issues, but that magazine is not enough to make trouble arise in your home.<P>Just talk to your husband about him and don't forget to listen, too. <P><P>------------------<BR>Love hurts no one.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AGoodPhrend:<BR><B> [QUOTE]Originally posted by cdlinaz:<BR>[b]My husband and I separated for two weeks in order to give each other some space and think about where we are in our relationship. It was my choice to leave since things were not good in our home. After I returned he mentioned that he ordered Playboy (which he knows how much I dislike that magazine). When I was shocked and upset and told him that he knew how I felt about that magazine and that I think it objectifies women and that I don't approve of it, he became very defensive and started calling me immature and childish and insecure. He said that he ordered it when we weren't together and he though we were going to divorce. (I never ever lead him to think that I wanted a divorce). We had another discussion about the magazine after he got some advice from a friend and insisted that I am insecure and that I need to deal with that issue and that he's still getting the magazine. I continued to stress to him that I have the right to not approve of that magazine and that it has nothing to do with insecurities. The magazine arrived and he left it out and I saw it in our bedroom. I mentioned it to him and told him that I don't approve of it and that it objectifies women, etc... He got defensive and continued to say that it is my issue and my insecurities and I need to get over it. Later I told him that it hurt my feelings that he insists on bringing the magazine into our home when he knows how I feel about it and that if he has to have it, that I would prefer it not be in our home. I further stated that I want to be respected as his wife and that my feelings should be taken into consideration by him. He continues to think that I have some problem and he tried to justify it by stating that the magazine is classy and is a gentleman's magazine and that I need to be more open-minded. I further informed him that I feel that I have the right to have an opinion and a feeling about it and by being open-minded will not change my beliefs and morals. He basically wants me to change my feelings and accept it. I don't think I will ever accept it. If he wants to read it, I wish he would do it on his own time and not in my presence and I certainly don't want to see it around the house. I am upset that he thinks that I have to "deal with it" and get over how I feel. Do any of you think I am making more of this than there is and should just learn to accept it or do I actually have the right to feel the way I do and request that it not be in my presence or view? Any advice or thoughts are appreciated. Also, any advice of what I should say to my husband are also appreciated.<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>One thing to keep in mind is that the women who pose for magazines demonstrate they have no qualms about contributing to the opinion alluding to women as "objects." <P>Secondly, I noticed your husband respected you enough to let you know he ordered the magazne. He acknowledged you just by mentioning it to you. He also stated why he ordered the magazine. There was no way for you to know your leaving would be conducive to his ordering Playboy. So, don't beat yourself up about it. <P>My husband used to indulge in adult material until one day he realized he wanted me to look like the women in the literature. He said he compared what he had to offer me to what he wanted from me. <P>Prior to his "revelation" I initiated conversation about his first look at adult material, how did he get to see it etc.,<P>The word "insecurities" has become such a buzzword and a racket that people don't get past using it as the "cure all" and "end all" answer to issues they don't know how to confront.<P>When we look at one issue from different viewpoints we never see the actual solution right away. <P>Your husband doesn't see the "big deal" about the magazine because you haven't helped him to see the "real reason" it is offensive to you.<P>I admire your empathy for women's issues, but that magazine is not enough to make trouble arise in your home.<P>Just talk to your husband about his interest in adult material and don't forget to listen, too. <P><P>------------------<BR>Love hurts no one.

Dear cdlinaz,<P>You have every right to be offended by your husband's actions! Not only because he insists on the Playboy's, but also because he is putting the opinions of his friends above those of your own.<P>It's interesting to me to note how some people will defend this behavior (their own?) And refer to it as being a "silly thing" or a "small vice" or what was it? -- ninny, nanny, bossy and controlling????? PLEEEEEZE! Sounds suspicious to me, i.e., most porno addicts will go to great lengths to defend/deny their problem.<P>Why not read up on what Dr. Harley says about Playboy, masterbation, pornography, and other forms of mental infidelity, then talk with your husband about how much it hurts you. Dr. Harley clearly states that no wife should have to compete for her husband's sexual attention, and this includes, pornography, fantasy with anyone other than your spouse, etc. He also believes that sex (of any kind) should only be shared within the marital relationship.<P>Unfortunately we live in a world where alot of men are conditioned to believe that it is their "right" to be able to drool, fantasize, masterbate or whatever with someone other then their wife. It's purely mental infidelity and there's not much else you can say about it.<P>It would be an entirely different thing if you were both into this kind of thing, or if you were wanting to use the magazine as some kind of foreplay TOGETHER, or if it were a mutual enjoyment thing. But, the fact that your husband disregards your feelings entirely on this issue is very, very selfish.<P>Perhaps you are presenting your case in a way that makes him feel that you think that you are superior, or that he is a bad/morally wrong person.<P>Every couple is very unique when it comes to issues like this. It should be something that is solved together. Otherwise, it will certainly become a very large thorn/lovebuster in your marriage.<P>BUT....whatever you do, DON'T let anyone else make you feel bad for feeling this way or to tell you that you are "being bossy" or controlling because this hurts you. You are not alone in this, and it's about time some of these husbands realize just how much their "need" to indulge in this type of activity hurts many, many wive's feelings, sense of security, and self-image. Many of these same men complain about wanting more sex, but I can't think of a more sure way to go about NOT getting it (from their wife anyway).<P>It's too bad they can't have a "taste" of their own behavior. I wonder how they would feel knowing that their wives were in the height of self-induced orgasmic pleasure while drooling over a gorgeous young hunky stud with a glorious erection??????<P>Sorry for being so graphic!

WWJD??<P>Matthew 5:27,28 (Jesus speaking) "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not commit adultery'. But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

How sad for you to be dealing with this mentality from your spouse. I am familiar with the "guys will be guys" attitude and agree with you. My last partner as well as my ex husband both had a "thing" for pornography in this form. It amazes me that they do not see the inappropriateness of looking at the naked bodies of strangers much less their intimate life partner. I have always noted that these same men often do not care for the idea of starnge men (or familiar men) looking at MY naked body. What does that say? <BR>I am not a women's liber per say but I am tired of men's weaknesses being referred to as our insecurities. There is much to be admired about a man who does not need to insult his spouse or his own character for that matter, by looking at naked strangers, especially when he has been lucky enough to have found his own lifetime intimate partner. <BR>I think of Clinton and Reagan. Big difference in moral fiber.

I posted topic a few days ago "infidelity comes in all forms" because I found out that my husband has been involved with porn behind my back all the time that we have been together. Not only porn mags, but hardcore videos, surfing the net and sex aids. It also came out that most of our mutual friends knew about it. <P>Like your husband he insisted that it was the male thing to do and normal, that he could see no reason to give it up and that my feelings did not impact on his decision although he was sorry it hurt and made me insecure. He also said that he was happy with our sex life and still found me attractive.<P>Like you I felt wacked between the eyes!!<P>I agree with some of the posts that there is little to be gained with "I'm right and you're wrong" coming from both parties. I disagree with those who say that it is a little issue. Issues are always relative.<P>Responding by suggesting that you pose for him so that he looks at you and not others may be a good idea. But my experience was that I just joined the "library" of material. Sometimes he looked at me and other times all the rest of his stuff.<P>Explaining that his behaviour is not adhering to the policy of joint agreement is all very well but again experience showed that "none so deaf as those who don't want to hear".<P>Talking about the issue is also a good idea, but...... At best it served to explain the behaviour a little more, but was not enough to motivate change. Both of us seemed to get entrenched in defending our very reasonable reasons for why we do what we do and feel what we feel although it was not nearly so acrimonious.<P>So what have I done? Well firstly I read quite widely about marriage, conflict, communication, porn and men etc. I talked to a number of people and eventually came up with the following:<P>Firstly I was extremely bitter and resentful about the unfairness of it all. Here I was having to accept something that made me miserable because it was a done deal and I have no control over my husband's behaviours. At the same time, I was compromising myself too much by focusing exclusively on the "we" in the relationship in general at the expense of "I" (if that makes sense). As a result, this resentment was compounding this specific clash.<P>To deal with this, I thought long and hard about what I could do that would not be viewed as "tit for tat" but at the same time would allow me to have a more rounded "I". So I ended up by negotiating some "separate thing" of my own. We agreed if not enthusiastically certainly jointly, he would look after our baby once a year while I would take a two week vacation on my own. I love to travel and he does not, I live in a remote part of Africa as that is where my husband has found work and I am a city girl at heart.<P>Secondly I expressed my sadness that while we were both aware of the drift in our relationship, he was spending so much time and energy on establishing acceptance for something "separate". So I suggested that we spend some time looking at how we can introduce more "togetherness" into the marriage and am waiting for his response to this. He did say that this was a good idea.<P>Thirdly I paid close attention to some of the male respondents who emphasised that while they could sympathise with me, men are different. They can compartmentalize (see the posts under the topic I started). This does not make it right but it is worth keeping in mind.<P>And finally I prayed that God would give me the ability to love my husband in spite of.... One thing I have learned through all this is that withdrawing love is not the solution and trying to maintain it was beyond my capacity.<P>So what am I saying to you. Firstly it helped me to identify what are the real problems here that his involvement with porn highlighted? Secondly what can we do to improve the marriage generally rather than "you give it up..", "no you accept it". And thirdly, if you believe, God is a tremmendous resource when we just don't have what it takes and to unburden to when the feelings became very intense.<P>Is it working? Well time will tell.<P>Many members may think that my solution is unorthodox. <P>What do you think????

I am not familiar with your whole story - so please forgive me if you already mentioned this elsewhere. <P>But do you have children living in the home? Does your husband have any particular concern about them seeing this material if it's "no big deal" ? <P>I often wonder about people who try to justify certain attitudes and behavior and yet if you ask them if it would be o.k. for their kids to see or hear, or to be like them when they're grown - they typically say, "No Way!"<P>But why, if it's perfectly alright? <P>Just wondering

No, there are no children in the house. My husband did mention that if we ever have a son one day and he is caught looking at a Playboy magazine that he would probably laugh and then talk to him about it and tell him that he will tell mom (me) about it and that he should keep it away so that I don't see it. He told me that when he was 15 years old his father ordered that magazine for him. Even his own mother has said that I shouldn't make a big deal out of it becaues it's not that bad of a magazine. I don't think she's ever even looked at one in my opinion or at least hasn't looked at one in many many years! I think they've become more explicit then they used to be. I do appreciate everyon'e advice and thoughts. I've tried to have a calm conversation with my husband but just can't seem to get him to understand how much it hurts me. He continues to pressure me to accept it and he obviously doesn't care about my feelings. I just don't think he realizes how much it actually does hurt me. I think he believes that I'm just angry and want control. That is not it at all. It really hurts me more than he can imagine, but when I tell him this, he gets defensive and doesn't try to think how I feel. He has always had a hard time "putting himself in someone else's shoes." He's also very selfish and has always been.