I searched Dr. Harvey's commonly answered questions for controlling wife. I only saw controlling husbad responses. They didn't seem to apply to my situation. <P>The situation is that my wife is very controlling and accusing. I'm always having to defend myself over and over. She says that it's in the best interest of the kids and that she's protecting our children from my verbal abuse. Please don't read to much in the "verbal abuse" I raise my voice and she gets bent out of shape and saves the kids from me. She has taken my validity as a father away. My four year old daughter has been repeatedly enforced to think that what I say does not matter. I have to plead with my daughter to do anything like wash the hands after eating or coming back inside after playing when it's time for bed. <P>The worst part is that I have to defend myself to her sister and mother now because of her accusations to them. <P>I really am a good man and a good father. My daughters (1 and 4) use me as a gymnasium and they hug me for long periods of time and play to their hearts content and such. I have never bickered about changing the kids diapers like other male relatives in her family has done with their wives. I change the diapers with out hassle. I clean. I cook. I am an all around general good guy. <P>I don't deserve having to defend myself all the time. It generally has detiorated to yelling matches because I get so fed up with it. <P>Robel (my wife) recommended that I go to this web site. I have but yet I only see contolling husband topics. What can you recommend that I say to Robel or give her to read or what.

Well, you asked so I'm going to give you an answer - but maybe not the answer that you (or your wife) want.<P>I was very much the controling one in my marriage, mostly because my H, like you, let me be. It got to the point where I lost respect for my H, and basically treated him just as I pleased, without thought to his feelings or any consideration for him. He never said a word. But somewhere along the line, he fell out of love with me. Who wants to love someone who doesn't treat you like an equal, who doesn't show you gratitude for your involvement or effort, who doesn't respect your role as a father, husband or man.<P>I have been fighting for my marriage for a year now, and it has been the most difficult goal I have ever worked towards, to convince this man that I have changed, and that I do respect him and love him beyond words. Is it too late? Maybe. But I'll keep on trying.<P>DPatrick and Robel, stop the p***ing match. Work together to raise your kids, respect each other above all.<P>Maggie

DPatrickL,<P>Welcome to Marriage Builders, if you keep posting here, you will find ideas to assist you in making your marriage stronger.<P>In reading your post, I could relate to what you have written. But, in my humble opinion, I see more issues here than just the children.<P>You said your wife told you to look on this site. Has she read the information here? If she has, can't the two of you spend some time going over the material here together?<P>I would guess that both you and she are not meeting each others emotional needs. Do you know what her top 5 emotional needs are? Does she know what your top 5 emotional needs are? Do either of you care? I'm not asking this to be a smart a$$...but bc with your post, all you seem to care about is getting control back from your wife.<P>You state that she doesn't respect you. Respect is something earned by a husband....why wouldn't she feel this way towards you? How does her mother treat her father? Sisters treat their husbands? Did she grow up in an environment where men were not respected?<P>With all of this in mind, how can you focus on winning you wife's heart back. Meeting her needs. Putting yourself second. IMHO, if you meet her needs, she will begin to give you the respect to want.<P>Also, in the short run, I have kids and agreeing on how to raise them is difficult for both me and my wife. We've had to learn how to compromise our individual views so we form an united front for our kids. Our kids know that I will support her decisions and that she will do the same. If we do disagree, she and I discuss it in private. Also, we try not to correct each other in front of the kids.<P>I will check back tomorrow to see if you've added anything....have to work this evening.<P>Hang in There!

DPatrickL,<P>Below is a response you posted to another persons thread<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DPatrickL:<BR><B>Please.. This all seems so ninny nanny and bossy and controlling. <BR>I equate this desire of his to a small vice. I'm sure that you may have a vice or two. Are you perfect.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>When I read your comments I was struck by how easily you dismissed the person's feellings as ninny nanny bossy and controlling. If you respond to your wife's feelings in this same manner it would explain a lot about why she doesn't respect you. You don't repsect her. If you view a difference of oppinion as being an attempt at control I think you might have the problem not your wife.<P>Actually I think you and your wife have serious issues to deal with that stem from poor communication. Remember that communication is not just talking. It has more to do with being understood. You can not understand someone if you dismiss their feelings as somehow irrelevant. <P>If your wife will agree you two should be reading together about the Marriage Builder's concepts. Many are covered on this web site.<P>Mud <><<P>

How do you determine from my post to another person that I don't respect my wife? Did you read the whole post? My post was based in what I thought to be respect for each other. The SOLUTION was both individuals agreeing to give up a vice that is equally hard to give up. <P>Alot of people would like to CONTROL alot of things. They have tentacles spread everywhere. Giving advice here and advice there. They leave their mark all over the place. They work in government. They work as journalists. They work in many professions. <P>Some people would like to control how much another person can make. (So they don't make too much ala Bill Gates). Some people would like to control what kind of vehicles others drive. (So that they can't buy an SUV if they don't need it). Some people would like to take the butter out of popcorn at movie theatres. (So it doesn't do damage to other people's hearts). The same with fast food, icecream, cigarettes, alchohol. <P>Mudder, I don't smoke, drink, drive an SUV, or have butter on my popcorn when I watch a movie. However, when I see people out there trying to take all the enjoyment of life away from everyone else I may (may) point this out that it is controlling. <P>Now if I tell someone that it is a little controlling to want to stop someone from viewing Playboy, and that a GOOD solution would be to determine one of your vices that would be hard to give up also. And then both of you should agree to give up the vice. How is that born in disrespect. <P>People disagree in life. I read her opinion. And I don't agree with her perspective so much. Does that mean I disrespect her? It would be ill advised for her to go around saying to people that her "husband disrespects women" just because he reads playboy. <P>You could make the case that she doesn't respect him and his view on life and women. <P>I could definately make the case on many fronts that my wife does not respect me. Over and over again I have to defend my character. (I guess because she respects me). Over and over again I have to plead with her to not create a division. To be unified. When I say to my daughter, "please sit properly because you are dropping the food on the floor. Lean over your plate". My wife will say, "She's just a 4 year old". (Is her response and NON UNITED front born out of respect for me?) So what my daughter sees is that whatever I say, really it doesn't matter and she doesn't have to listen. Milk gets spilled. Juice gets spilled. (She has slipped off of the chair because she had one but cheek precariously on the chair and then slipped while drinking.) All I have asked, is that she sit somewhat properly. All I ask is that after eating she washes her hands so that the food stuffs don't get all over the furniture and toys. All I ask is very few things lately. Because I WALK ON EGGSHELLS worrying that I may RECEIVE THE RATH of my wife. And more division will occur. <P>Don't tell me that I may be the one disrespectful. I have done just about everything to DEFEND myself and stay SANE. We have gone to counseling. It was a waste of time. I ENDED UP defending myself over and over. <P>I am tired, very tired of defending myself and having my validity as a father taken away from me. <P>I don't think you understand my point of view. Therefore I think you disrespect others. <P>You have 243 posts to other people. You have tentacles everywhere. Affecting other people's lives. Maybe you should spend your time with your wife and teenagers than spending your time telling others things. <P>I think it is a sign of disrespect to your wife and kids to spend so much time on the internet. <P>If it were up to me, and if I were controlling, I'd take the right of people to post more than 50 times a year giving advice to others if they had families of their own. Just like people say about Bill Gates, "What does he need with all of that money. (Which by the way he has said that he will donate 95% of it to charity and charity dispenses money way more efficiently than govt.) I would say, what do people with families need to post more than 50 advices to other people on the internet for?<P>I am done. I hope you see the fast judgement on your part could be WRONG. and a little of the hypocrasy by yourself.<P>I am living in hell I believe. I have tried to tell my wife in every respectful and calm and reasoned way where my point of view comes from. I have tried to say that I'm tired of defending myself. <P>She is the one (not me) who has threatned to divorce me over 10+ times. She's the one that used to threaten me with killing herself. If she doesn't get her way (controlling) she tries to pull all of the stops to get her way. And she generally does get her way. I HAVE no say so whatsoever. <P>She needs to finally stop the division and the accusations and the controlling. I'm tired of it. NOW MY ORIGINAL note said, "What can I possible give my wife to read or say to my wife to finally stop all of this nonsense, to finally let her see what I'm going through." It's pretty bad. <P>I'm a good man and a good father. I cook, clean, change diapers without argument, (like some of her relatives do), I do home improvement, I read books to my daughters, I act as a gymnasium for them, I give them rides on the bike, I clean them up, I take them to the park, I teach them new words, I hold them alot, I hug them alot. <P>I don't deserve all of the flack that I'm getting from you or my wife. I have to put up defenses for 4-5 hours sometimes. All the while I just am losing my mind. I can't believe some of the things that she says. It's crazy. And I'm tired.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mudder:<BR><B>DPatrickL,<P>Below is a response you posted to another persons thread<P> When I read your comments I was struck by how easily you dismissed the person's feellings as ninny nanny bossy and controlling. If you respond to your wife's feelings in this same manner it would explain a lot about why she doesn't respect you. You don't repsect her. If you view a difference of oppinion as being an attempt at control I think you might have the problem not your wife.<P>Actually I think you and your wife have serious issues to deal with that stem from poor communication. Remember that communication is not just talking. It has more to do with being understood. You can not understand someone if you dismiss their feelings as somehow irrelevant. <P>If your wife will agree you two should be reading together about the Marriage Builder's concepts. Many are covered on this web site.<P>Mud <><<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

Perhaps the real point is that it sounds like neither of you understands the other's feelings well...a pretty darn common phenomemon.<P>I do understand why you feel undermined in this situation. Any insight into why she feels the way she does? I know my H has always been a great guy around the kids, but we have one son who is very sensitive to sarcasm, and for years my H would use that around him, without realizing the effect...and it did bring out the protective mama lion in me.<P>Probably the best thing to do is to sit down and quietly talk thru some of this stuff with her. Identify what each of you do that hurts or upsets the other, without defending why... See if you can agree on a plan to reduce some of the things she does that are a problem for you, and see if you can reduce some of the things that are a problem for her. It will take time, but if you can both eliminate the triggers and behaviors that cause dissension, you will find it worthwhile.<P>Good luck,<BR>Kathi<P>PS, don't even bother to see how many posts I have, too many, I know! <BR>

My apologies for causing you further pain. <P>Mud

DPatrickL,<P>I am going to respond again to your original post and your most recent on this thread; and, I do so with trepidation.<P>There is nothing you can do to keep your W from trying to control you. This is a decision only she can make. But, what you can do is change your behaviors towards her and how you interact with her.<P>As I asked in my first post to you: Do you know what her 5 most important emotional needs are? Have you asked her? Do you really care what her needs are? Like I said before, I'm not trying to be a smart a$$ and I don't need to know the answers. I am just trying to offer you food for thought.<P>I have come to realize in my marriage (maybe it's different in yours) that I cannot change any thing about my wife. I can offer my opinion, but change is up to her. And, since she is sitting here with me, I'm sure she would say the same about me. She said "yeah." My wife and I have also learned, by trial and error, that once one of us begins to change our own behavior, that usually brings about change in the other.<P>We have learned that the only part of our marriage we can control is our own being. She can't control me and I can't control her. Part of this process is learning how to agree to disagree and reaching a solution. This involves communication, talking with each other, not to each other. Dr. Harley discuss this in Policy of Joint Agreement.<P>From what I have read, I can tell that you are tired, have felt attacked and feel the need to defend yourself. Been there and I'm sure my wife has been there (she's told me so). Try to let go of these feelings, move past them. Get on with learning how to meet your wife's emotional needs. I would bet, that once you begin meeting her needs, she will begin learning how to meet yours. And, once again, I would guess that respect and admiration is one of yours.<P>Also, please take the time to look around the emotional needs board. Read some of the post there. They may help or they may not; but, it won't hurt to look.<P>In closing, most of us who post here do so voluntarily and when we do make a post, we are opening up to be told things we may disagree with or don't want to hear. It's happened to me several times. And I've never felt controled, but I've been convicted to honestly take a look at myself and actions. Also, concerning the amount of time spent here, many of us have turned here because we are at the end of our ropes. Posting here acts as a support group; a place to vent frustrations, seek advice and receive encouragement to make it throught another day or a times hour. My wife (althought she doesn't post) has seen the benefits of my posting here in our marriage. <P>Hang in There!

I'd like to thank nowhereman and Kathy and everyone that has taken the time to help me with my situation. <P>Finding out her 5 emotional needs maybe a start. <P>Trying to eliminate things that we each don't like to see each other do is probably the wise choice also. <P>One minor point. I know, I know it sounds like I'm trying to change my wife. It sounds like it because I am. It is hard for me to just sit idly by whle my validity as a father is taken away, plus others in her family think of me not so highly because of what my wife says. <P>I could live with her accusations per say because it only affects me. I can change myself and stop being so defensive.<P>But what really hurts is watching the divide happen between myself and the 4 year old daughter. And what also hurts is having to address issues with her family in a defensive way. <P>For instance, once my daughter's (Christina) cousin (Janelle)was over to sleep with Christina. After we had tucked everyone in and gone to our rooms, some time passed and then my bedroom door opened. It was Janelle. My wife was in a different room with the newborn. I told Janelle and Christina that, " it was time to go to bed and told them to go back in the room." Well. Guess what happened. Janelle (age 3 at the time) started crying. She's a loud cryer. Immediately Robel (my wife) came out and the baby (Rebecca) woke up and there was commotion while Robel tried to figure out what hapened. Robel immediately started comforting Janelle and saying that it was OK. That you didn't have to go back to the room. Robel started asking, " What's wrong? Are you scared? Are you scared?" Of course Janelle said, "Yes." Robel then started to get on my case about forcing a kid whose 3 to sleep or back to a room that she's scared of and guess what everybody. I still to this day have not been successfully able to defend myself. I have still been painted by her family as being a MEAN guy that day. <P>I tell them that it was 11PM. I tell them that all I said was, " It's time to sleep. It's late. Go back to bed. <P>But still to this day Janelle won't come back to our house for a sleepover. And it's all due to Janelle's much talked about percepton of me. My belief is that her perception was fueled by what my wife and my wife's sister have said and how my wife saved Janelle from me. <P>I try to let Robel know that she should consult with me instead of finding out what happened from the child and we should put up a united front instead of making me look bad and mean. It happens over and over again. <P>I feel hellpless. I can't do a darn thing. I have finally said, " there will be no kids visiting unless Robel is here also." I can just imagine one of the kids saying something screwy that I can't defend. <P>Once a neighbors kid named Lyla, was playing with Christina, Janelle, and Matthew (another neighbor) in the backyard with a helicopter. Lyla and Christina were fighting over it and pulling on it and were about to break it. I pleaded with them to let go. My wife pleaded with them to let go. I pleaded with them to let go again. Then I said, "On the count of 3 you guys better let go." 1, 2, 3. Right after 3 Lyla let go. I had enough of Lyla's antics though. (She was taunting earlier). So I said to Lyla, "OK, you go home now. Go home. " Lyla went home. Un beknownst to me when Lyla got inside (she's 6 years old) she started crying up a storm. Her mother (Connie) came over and asked me "WHAT HAPPENED?". I asked Connie, "Wouldn't you like to discuss this away from your daughter?" She said , "NO". So I proceeded to explain that Christina and Lyal were fighting over this helicopter that actually flies and was going to break. I told her that we pleaded with them to let go and finally I said to let go on the count of 3. I told Connie that I sent her home. <P>Connie proceeded to tell me that Lyla will not come over to our house again to play. I told Connie that , "C o i n c id e n t a l l y, Leslie (Matthew's mom) had the kids over 1 hour ago and when I asked her if she was OK with them all being at her house she said that if they start getting into it she'll just send them home. Leslie just said that 1 hour ago." By this time Leslie was standing there also and she backed me up. Do you know what Connie said, " Well that's different".<P>Here is the kicker. Robel proceeded to attack me from all different angles that night. For 5 hours she dumped past issues into the plate. Past issues that are never resolved for her. I try to set them straight and resolve them. They never get resolved. So for 5 hours 5PM-10PM we were arguing. With me just gietting more and more upset. Till finally by 10 PM I was yelling. (Which is another issue. Me yelling.) <P>Oh well. I just don't see sometimes how understaniding Robel's 5 emotional needs are. BUT..............<BR>I'll give it a try. Who knows it may work. I may gain insight to what the problem really is. <P>I will also try to see if we can start eliminating actions that either of us don't like. <P>Thanks for listening and advising.

Have you looked into the possiblity that both of you are controlling and enabling? I was in a relationship that sounds very similar to yours, being put-down & basically surrounded by verbal/emotional abuse daily.<P>Now that I'm away from that relationship, I realized that both of us contributed to the mess. One tactically accepted the abuse & sometimes did things to attract more abuse while the other found every occasion to undermine self-esteem & love. We were locked in a power-struggle neither was going to win.<P>It sounds to me like your wife is very angry about something (which may have nothing to do with you) and she is focusing that anger at you because you are tacitly accepting responsibility for her anger. Why are you accepting the anger?<P>You stated that you went to therapy and instead of 'fixing' your wife, you got 'blamed for everything', for what exactly were you to blame?<P>In my case, lack of communication skills & a hard-head meant that neither of us could profit from therapy because we desperately needed the other person to accept all responsiblity for the failings of our relationship. In the face of that wall, our relationship died. Looking back, I can see many instances where I held up "all I had done for the relationship" as a shield to protect myself from really seeing myself as an adult instead of as a victim.<P>In my new relationship, I'm working very hard not to be the victim nor the abuser. I ask myself every day what exactly why I'm asking or doing certain things. It is a long road but well worth the effort.

Nowhereman, I read your advise again for a second time. I think I understand better what you are trying to say. <P>I am focused on trying to change Robel for my sanity and keeping my relationship with my daughter strong. <P>What I hear you saying is that I really can't change that. That Robel will change on her own. If I change she will change in reaction somewhat. <P>I hear you saying that the process of finding out her 5 emotional needs and then trying to provide for those needs will bring out much of the respect in her for me that may tone down her getting on my case all the time. <P>My interpretation. <P>I think what I need to do is first take some time to suck it up and then approach her in a few days with the question. <P>It'll take some time for me because I'm so upset. I've been getting madder and madder. I am tightly wound. <P>I suppose if you are still out there listening when the time comes, I'll let you know the progress. <P>Thanks

DPatrickL,<P>Way to go! I'm here for you and will offer all the support I can. I've got to keep this short, busy day at the office and I have got to get to an appointment. You sound very positive and like you're making a solid plan of action. Let me know if you need to vent. This is the best place to do it....avoids Love Busting!<P>Hang in There!

Buddy, that's not just controlling, that aggressive hostility and it's something that's worth therapy if you can convince her to go and you can find a good therapist. When I think of controlling I think of someone who always wants to decide where to go, what to do, what to buy, etc. I think my wife has somoe control issues, but nothing like that. Good luck, and if I believed in praying I'd pray for you. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DPatrickL:<BR><B>I searched Dr. Harvey's commonly answered questions for controlling wife. I only saw controlling husbad responses. They didn't seem to apply to my situation. <P>The situation is that my wife is very controlling and accusing. I'm always having to defend myself over and over. She says that it's in the best interest of the kids and that she's protecting our children from my verbal abuse. Please don't read to much in the "verbal abuse" I raise my voice and she gets bent out of shape and saves the kids from me. She has taken my validity as a father away. My four year old daughter has been repeatedly enforced to think that what I say does not matter. I have to plead with my daughter to do anything like wash the hands after eating or coming back inside after playing when it's time for bed. <P>The worst part is that I have to defend myself to her sister and mother now because of her accusations to them. <P>I really am a good man and a good father. My daughters (1 and 4) use me as a gymnasium and they hug me for long periods of time and play to their hearts content and such. I have never bickered about changing the kids diapers like other male relatives in her family has done with their wives. I change the diapers with out hassle. I clean. I cook. I am an all around general good guy. <P>I don't deserve having to defend myself all the time. It generally has detiorated to yelling matches because I get so fed up with it. <P>Robel (my wife) recommended that I go to this web site. I have but yet I only see contolling husband topics. What can you recommend that I say to Robel or give her to read or what.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

Further on down the page of all the forums, is a section for women, called the Women's Bible Study Forum.<P>We have a rather long and interesting thread on Boundaries. <P>You asked what you would recommend your wife to read, and I think this is really good. You might enjoy it also.<P>TNT