I'm looking for help in the resolution of a conflict that has turned critical for my marriage. My wife & I have been married for 8 years and she just gave me an ultimatum.<P>I am a singer in a regional band that plays 6 to 8 nights a month on weekends and I work on computers as a day job. I have been playing in Bands for 15 years and met my wife while playing at a private party.<P>The ultimatum is quit the band or face divorce, this is probably against everything mentioned in the conflict resolution and giving & taking sections I've read on this site. <P>Why the ultimatum, my wife's has said her need for recreational time together is not being met. It is adversely effected by the frequency that the Band plays especially on weekends. <P>When we were dating I told her to never ask me to quit playing in Bands "She might not like my answer" was my bold reply. But now faced with this problem, that's was easier said than done. I want to stay married but I also want to fulfill my desires to play music.<P>Okay a simple solution would be to play less often, but that isn't an option with the group I play with. We are one of the most popular groups in the midwest, & the best band I've ever been involved with by leaps & bounds. The other members want to play as frequently as possible. I know that I will never get the chance to be in this type of group again, it is sort of a dream come true, after playing 15 years. And I don't want to go back to playing in a non-professional type environment again.<P>I guess I'm saying due to circumstances out of our control, it's either play in this band or not play at all. <BR>Is it fair to me to quit a dream, is it fair for me not to fulfill my wife's need for recreational time on weekends?<P>How can we deal with this issue? <P>

Ah, dreams in opposition, the #1 root cause of acute (and even chronic) marital strife. <P>What to do? Consider first that you have <I>achieved</I> your dream. Even if you stop now, no one can take that away from you. <P>Second, try to figure out whether that really is the problem. There may be another issue that has pushed it to the fore. What might that be?<P>Finally, if I were a wife and my 40-hour-workweek husband proceeded to spend all his weekend nights onstage, I might very well develop a problem with that over time. <P>Buddy, you got an <I>ultimatum</I> because you weren't listening to anything more subtle. And you can't blame her for that.<P>If you run out of other options, can't take her out more during the workweek, or do something else that mollifies her, then you've got to quit the band. On this site, your marriage comes first. For a contrasting opinion, go over to the Bandbuilders.com site.

So your saying it's ok to ask someone to change who they are after 15 years, brings to mind a quote "A man marrys a woman thinking she won't change, while a woman marrys a man thinking he will change". <P>Any other ideas out there. My issue is that weekends vs weekdays for recreational time together shouldn't matter. My weekends are tied up but what about using weekdays to fufill her recreational need, should this be a viable solution. What about attending gigs together? Any help out there?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bandito:<BR><B>So your saying it's ok to ask someone to change who they are after 15 years, brings to mind a quote "A man marrys a woman thinking she won't change, while a woman marrys a man thinking he will change".</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You're mistaking <I>what you do</I> for <I>who you are</I>. Imagine yourself recovering from cancer of the throat, learning to talk on one of those microphones pressed to your neck. Ghastly, isn't it. Would you put a gun to your head? I hope not.<P>Now, when someone reaches a high level in his field, he is justifiably proud, and if someone wants to take that away, he justifiably feels <I>blindsided</I>. I can't help that. But remember, this is not your day job. This is not your chosen profession. This singing is not your life. Your marriage should be a much larger, and more important part of your life. Singing is a form of play for you. And it is a form of play that <I>excludes</I> her. You can't imagine the importance she places on the closeness she has with you. When something threatens it, you can expect her to react against it fearfully, even angrily. So you have the ultimatum.<P>Is there a dream of hers you're not honoring, and so she wants to take yours away? Have you failed to explain how important this dream is to you in a way that she understands? Hell, I don't know. I just know that you're obviously already in trouble, and you're looking for help, and the best help for you is to work with your wife.<P>Imagine you draw two circles next to each other. And a smaller circle inside each circle. The small ones are your respective areas of <I>inflexibility</I>, the larger ones are your areas of <I>flexibility</I>. The challenge is to shrink the small ones, and expand the large ones to overlap as much as possible without impinging on the small ones.<P>I'm not bashing you, buddy; I'm just pointing out that your marriage is in a lot of peril here, and you need to recognize it and deal with it, and not necessarily entirely in your own favor. <P>Things that you have categorically ruled out (like singing less on an amateur basis with a different group) need to go <I>back</I> on the table. It's a <I>cliche</I> that band life interferes with family life. Why do you think you're any different in that regard?<P>Wake up and smell the fuses blowing in your marriage. Before all the kliegs go out.

Hey bandito! Any progress?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sisyphus:<BR><B>Hey bandito! Any progress?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Going to counselor tonight, we made list of things to work on as directed by counselor. We both agreed that we needed to talk about control issues, recreational time together & insecurities. <P>CONTROL<BR>I feel that she wants to control my appearance (i.e. clothes, hair style, mustache/beard), relationship with kids from prior marriage, who my friends are.<BR>She feels I control all of our time due to playing in band. We are booked 12 months out in the future which makes scheduling around things difficult.<P>RECREATIONAL TIME<BR>She feels we should not do anything without the other, hobbies & friends should be 100% mutual.<BR>I feel time away is part of being individuals, and we share many activities & interests together, golf, camping, auctioning, etc.<P>INSECURITIES<BR>She thinks she is fat, ugly, geting too old, and I that I don't desire her anymore. My actions show her otherwise, but she can't understand why. I guess I'm blind to physical imperfections, my love is more mental than physical attraction. My playing in the band only adds to her insecurities, she is afraid I'll find someone "better". She can't let herself beleive that I only have eyes for her. Yes I have always been faithful to my marriage, contrary to the stereotype. I take my Christian values <BR>& music seriously, there is no room for bimbos. <BR> <BR>Those are the Issues, may not totally be Band related, but it is diffently the catalyst at this point. The lines of communication are starting to open now, and we have agreed to work through this together. <P>I'm willing to do whatever it takes to save my marriage. So Bandito may become Bandless. <P> <P>

Research shows 5 good hours of quality time per week is enough to sustain a marriage. Of course that's a minimum, not an upper limit. <P>But "joined at the hip" seems exhausting for both parties. Somebody said when two people are exactly alike, one of them isn't necessary. And it would also seem that a related issue is that your wife is insecure. If she thinks that of herself, why isn't she at Weight Watchers, Bally's, or elsewhere for remediating that sort of stuff? Seems unproductive to just sit and bemoan it. <P>Realize that some of this won't ever get fixed (see Gottman's books). And you should both learn to accept those sorts of things.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sisyphus:<BR><B>If she thinks that of herself, why isn't she at Weight Watchers, Bally's, or elsewhere for remediating that sort of stuff? Seems unproductive to just sit and bemoan it. <BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>She is seeing a doctor about weight issue, and is exercising 4 nights a week, but has seen little results. I thinks she is over eating to cope esteem issues, creating an endless circle.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bandito:<BR><B>I thinks she is over eating to cope esteem issues, creating an endless circle.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>OK, a couple of quick things. One is that if the exercise program is working right, there should not be <I>weight loss</I> unless she is <I>very</I> overfat. In fact, there may be <I>weight gain</I> (although with a reducting in measurements and consequently the ability to get back into clothes she hasn't worn for some time) as lean muscle mass is built. <P>Second, if the eating is still a problem, it may not be "esteem issues", she may be overloading on carbs (primarily sugar and flour). That Atkins diet (almost all protein) is deadly, but there is an element of truth in upping the protein intake ... especially <I>simultaneously</I> with an appropriate amount of carbs. Protein is needed in order to metabolize those carbs into <I>other than fat</I>. And the latter is what the body is <I>trying</I> to do! If it can't get the protein to do the structural work, it will <I>keep her hungry</I> in an effort to demand what it needs. Meanwhile, she's still stuffing in carbs alone that are good for nothing but adding fat.<P>Try 5 protein-laden meals a day, getting progressively smaller from a big breakfast to a <I>tiny</I> dinner or after-dinner snack.<P>This stuff is in Covert Bailey's book, and other good books on nutrition and exercise. Things like EAS Myoplex shakes can also help. You might have her trot over to GNC. If she's in good health otherwise, thermogenics like Xenadrine or Hydroxycut <I>may</I> be attractive kick-starters (it's tricky stuff, and those are the two supposedly most reliable brands). <BR>

Went to counselor with wife went pretty good, counselor recognized that wife didn't have own identity and commented that she should have her own hobbies. Wife didn't share much about herself with counselor after that point was made.<BR>We were asked to make list of compromises in order of most appealing to least & bring them next week. She asked us to keep them confidential from each other. my list follows.<P>Enjoy as much quality time as possible together during weeknights & weekend days.<BR>&#61623; Plan activities on Monday &/or Thursday nights, like watching wife’s Thursday TV shows together or going to a movie, out to eat etc.<BR>&#61623; On Saturday & Sunday (so we don’t waste day sleeping), we could work in yard, go to auctions, do projects around the house, take dogs to lake fishing, go golfing, etc.<BR>&#61623; Bowl &/or golf together 1or 2 nights each week, I would stop bowling on a Men’s team.<P>Give the band notice that I will only play 2 times a month starting this fall.<BR>&#61623; This let’s wife know there is future relief in frequency of how much the band plays.<BR>&#61623; This gives me a transition period.<BR>&#61623; If unacceptable to band they can always replace me before the fall. <P>Give the band notice that I’m quitting, and determine a future date.<BR>&#61623; This let’s wife know there is relief in sight.<BR>&#61623; Gives the band a timeframe to replace me.<P>Quit band immediately.<P>That's where we are at....

Looks good. You might want to spend more time over on the Emotional Needs board ... it's more active ... and I think your counselor is moving ahead with the two of you on the resolution of the conflict.

You know this may not be the answer you want to hear but here goes, your wife knew what she was marrying into and if she loves you she has to love you for what you do.Its ok for her needs to change even when they involve you to some extent, but if you to cant grow in the same direction and make the change together then maybe it isnt love at all. Or maybe it is love but you 2 are growing apart. Then again maybe you two need to sit and talk and come to some sort of compromise that makes you both happy.<BR>Good Luck<P>------------------<BR>InLoveAndLost

I too am forced to say that this sounds somewhat strange. Now I am all for doing everything to please the wife. I have even quite some jobs because she wasn't happy with what I was doing. But I agree with the fact that she knew that you love being in a band long ago. She even enjoyed experiencing your skills as well. But now that she has not done any personal growth in her life she wants to grind your life to a halt. Her need for family committment has no more power than your need for recreation and admiration. I personally think she should greatly admire your abilities considering how many people in this world who would love to do what you do at least for one day in their life. <P>Now the flip side to this is the fact that since you have been with this band for 15 years and married for 8, you knew or should have known that there would come a day when you would have to fish or cut bate with the band issue. If you and the band have no intentions of becoming Rock Stars and you quitting your day job, then either switch your band time to thursday night performances or let it go. You marriage relationship is the more important relationship you will ever have between two people. Your wife has veto power over any choices you even think of give to someone else in your life (trust me I know that for sure). The same should go for you in her life. <P>Your wife should never force you to choose between her or anyone or anything else as well as you should not force her to. You should both monitor your marriage daily to show yourselves worthy of each other's love You should live to make each other's day as rewarding as god will allow. Forced choices should be seen and placed upon your own self as you see the need. If I have to remind you to show me that you love me that I must have failed in showing you that I love you. Love given is love returned.<P>Ok, that was my dime worth..... Now you owe me 8 cents back....<P>------------------<BR>5 stops closer to your mate's heart can bring miles of mutual pleasure.

Have been seeing counselor for several weeks and we have made great progress. Our counselor encouraged us to compromise & while working on it we had to communicate our feelings to each other. We learned alot about each others feelings, and as a result I have reduced the frequency the band is scheduled to play. It was a subtle change but made the biggest difference in how my wife viewed the situation. <P>The counselor is now working with my wife, who has acknowledged she has issues with self esteem. We are seeing the counselor together twice a month & she is seeing the counselor twice a month on her own.<P>I was never a big fan of counselors, boy was I wrong!