Ok Im Back and I still need some help and support. This on going since January.She keeps saying she wants it to work, on her good days. On her bad days she just verbally beats me up, I do nothing right. She still isnt with me emotionally, she must be deciding between me and her new found love. This past week she said she had a meeting so I beeped her. However she never answered my beep as usual. I later found out that she left work four hours early and he took off that day. Some meeting that was, she came home popping certs as she walked through the door. Told me she had lunch with another friend and couldnt answer the beeps in the meeting. I left it at that, If theres one thing I learned Im always wrong and she isnt doing anything wrong.<BR> Well here it is a new week and I was kind of removed from her all weekend,I even went out without her to a bar. Well today she came home from work and said basically we are playing games with each other and it should stop. I asked her if she wanted to make it work and she said yes. I have heard all this before anytime I start to get removed from the relationship. She also said after I asked her if she did anything else that day, that she went to find out about a spa and even has a piece of paper to prove it. Must have been a long visit to the spa aay. I never asked why she didnt answer my beeps though, because she said she was in the meeting earlier than planned.<BR> Well Folks this is just not ending, and Iam at the absolute end of my rope! Any Ideas, how to handle a habitual manipulator! Any ideas are good ideas! Thanks all!

Dear Will<BR>I, too, am involved with a manipulator. Drives you nuts, doesn't it? Especially when they accuse you of it! You may not like my reply, but I am loving, courteous, respectful as much as possible to him. My pages are often ignored, but her's aren't. Quite frankly, I am loving myself. I am doing so many things to make myself happy, because I'm worth it. I honestly don't know if my relationship will work out, but whether it does or not, I want to be happy. I have quit dwelling on the past...I cannot change it, but I can certainly make the present as enjoyable for me as possible. So, when he says "I got stuck late at work for 4 hours" I simply say, you must be so tired, can I get something for you? No pushing at all. If he volunteers where he's been great...we'll discuss it, but I no longer ask. Instead I make sure I do something neat each day, or have something positive to say each day. I read the news, meet with friends, walk, swim, joined a class...anything to make my day better. The bottom line is this...I show him I care, and still love him, but there is no more pleading or belittling myself. I love me! This will either end with him appreciating me and respecting me and returning my love, or my love will die off a little each day until it is tolerable for me to leave him. Either way, I want to be proud of who I am: a loving, capable strong woman.<BR>Does this help at all?<BR>Twyla

Thanks for the reply, your absolutely right. However I have a side of me that I cant control. I keep finding these signals, running out for milk at the weiderst times, phone calls to her job where he works on her cell when she done or off, and then I find myself having to confront her. I do have my good days, but those are days I have to convince myself that I dont love her or even like her. This is a longer process then I ever imagined were both seeing therapist seperately, her choice, and I guess when her therapist feels she has let go of the OM then well be brought in together. But some how I feel like that may never happen. She's making me out to be a psycho, she's even gona as far as to let people in her office hear her arguments with me and laugh with them over the phone, how disrespectful. I dont know, my days are numbered but I really do feel for my little guys to whom Iam a MR.Mom to during the day when she works, I work Nights. O.K. bye for now I have to go off to my psycho mind.

Well from a womans point of view and you may not want to here this but I don't think she loves you. I don't know why she is hanging on but I know that when a woman is in love with someone she my stay on his butt about things but she don't spend no more time away from the man she loves no more than she has to. You can't make her love you and that is spoken with experience. I am trying to make my husband love me and I am finding out that it don't work.

Your right I dont want to hear that, however I had a discussion with her the other night. She told me she cant make this work until she resolves her own issues, she's currently in therapy. She also said that she was 100% over him which I dont buy into at all. She futher said she is here to make it work. Then she admitted to calling the OM because he bought a new car and she wanted to congratulate him and thats all. I dont know what to believe anymore. Is she trying or is she just lying! I want to believe her, she tells me positive things, but does rediculous things. She saids she talks to him at work because she has too, generically and thats it. But then why a phone call and it was to the other mans friends house, so that was planned and not spontaneous right. Im baffled, do I hang in or runaway, is there light at the end of the tunnel or is that train coming getting ready to run me down.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by will12:<BR><B>Ok Im Back and I still need some help and support. This on going since January.She keeps saying she wants it to work, on her good days. On her bad days she just verbally beats me up, I do nothing right. She still isnt with me emotionally, she must be deciding between me and her new found love. This past week she said she had a meeting so I beeped her. However she never answered my beep as usual. I later found out that she left work four hours early and he took off that day. Some meeting that was, she came home popping certs as she walked through the door. Told me she had lunch with another friend and couldnt answer the beeps in the meeting. I left it at that, If theres one thing I learned Im always wrong and she isnt doing anything wrong.<BR> Well here it is a new week and I was kind of removed from her all weekend,I even went out without her to a bar. Well today she came home from work and said basically we are playing games with each other and it should stop. I asked her if she wanted to make it work and she said yes. I have heard all this before anytime I start to get removed from the relationship. She also said after I asked her if she did anything else that day, that she went to find out about a spa and even has a piece of paper to prove it. Must have been a long visit to the spa aay. I never asked why she didnt answer my beeps though, because she said she was in the meeting earlier than planned.<BR> Well Folks this is just not ending, and Iam at the absolute end of my rope! Any Ideas, how to handle a habitual manipulator! Any ideas are good ideas! Thanks all!</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Will,<P>I am in a similar situation I am 26 and my wife is 21 we have a child together and her daughter. We have been maried for one year and it seems nothing is getting better. I have tried everything. I will give you a little light on your situation. My wife feels she is right in the fact that she has not yet lived her life and she will live her life at any cost,(her life being clubs, bars and drinking) She leaves me at home with two children and comes home sometimes at 3 am drunk expecting me to help her with the baby because she is to drunk, when I have to go to work that morning. The clintcher is when she knows she is wrong she turns the table to my past abuses me verbaly and physicly and I have to forgive this for the sake of our children. So I have faith and will pray for you Will I hope we can both overcome this and live life happy. God Bless<P>

Thanks for the reply lost, Everytime I think iam in a world of **** I hear a story that is worse than mine. I sincerely wish you lots of luck. Iam still in that world, however last thursday I threatned to leave suitcase and all. Unless we could have a sitdown with some honest talk. Well I had my sitdown she confessed to talking with him on the payphone that night, but swore that was a mistake and she is trying. she wanted to know how I knew so much info, was I paying a private eye and how much, was there cameras in the house, is my car bugged. Well I reassured her that I wasnt doing any of this, which is the truth. We spoke briefly about the OM, we spoke on how we have no trust in each other. She thinks Im paranoid and she is too. I told her we have to build trust in one another. we are both seeing seperate counselors, thank god for insurance. she had a night out during the week and i FOUGHT NOT TO BLINK AN EYE, while she went to the mall for 3 hours. I worked that night, she said she bought some clothes for her and the kids. I didnt see any bags or receipts but some how I believe her. Im trying, we had a good week together maybe one small fight on a unrelated topic, but I cant walk on egg shells forever. Im hoping this is the begining of the end, but I dont know for sure. She certainly doesnt have any emotion towards me yet, other than shes trying and one day at a time. Im trying to believe her but we all know how hard that is. The obvious things have stopped though, the running out to make phone calls excuses and reasons to go places that make no sence. Oh Boy this is the pits.

What do you want from this woman, the truth? Stop looking for it because it isn't there. It appears that everyday for her is a new day to be creative with your heart. My real question to you is when are you going to be honest with yourself? Why do you keep beating up yourself over this woman? If you feel that you need to have some fun (whatever it may be) then do it. Make yourself unavailable to her for a change. Go visit your cousin in Philly for the weekend and don't tell her about it until three days after you get back. Only then say that you had to go out of town. <P>Two quick notes here:<P>1. In the real world you are what we call Insurance. It works just like health insurance. You keep paying for it until you loose your job. Until then you use your insurance whenever you feel sick enough to see the doc to make you well enough to resume your normal duties. In your case, she is playing you just enough to keep you hooked so when she and the X fall out she has someone to fill her shallow needs. Once you have nursed her back to health its off the the her main thang for some real pain gain. You Giver is in way to much control of your life here and your taker is sufficating from the preassure. Take the trip or go to the movies with a nother chick. Develope some interest in art or dance or something to give Nu meaning to your life. Save you physc money and buy yourself a suite or change your look. She'll notice and question you about it. Your reply should be, "I've been born again".<P>2. A friend of mine was married to a woman who for some strange womanly reason stop extending congical rights to him. He couldn't get it no matter what. Now she wasn't cheaten on him or anything like that but she was pleasing him either. They went for 2 years with her sleeping in the bed naked but not allowing him to touch her. (I know this because they both confessed this to me seperately). So one night he started a habit of taking a shower around 11:30 and getting really dressed up like he was going on a date. She inquired about where he was going that time of night and dress like that and he said "OUT". More question came but they were met with no answers. Once dressed he would leave the house get into his car and take off. He would stay gone til around 4:30-5:00 am. When he got home he would rush into the bathroom shower and change his close for work. He would somethime come out of the shower with a cold towel around his nect. Of course she was wide awake with more question and mad as could be. AS he got dressed he made sure the towel didn't fall from his neck. Once dressed for work he left.<P>This lasted about a week before she was trying to kill him sexually. He went from not getting any at all to getting more that he could handle. She came to his job to do it, in the parking lot of the supermarket, Zoo, everywhere you can imagin. Her whole attitude changed. He continue to go out for about 2 - 3 more weeks and the home life started getting better and better. Man she even started cooking and exercising to look good. She made life changes and good one for the family. My friend was happier than a punk in boyz town with no underwear (sorry). So one night after some especially hot love making he broke down and confessed to her about his late night trists. <P>He told her....... Well I'll save that part but I hope you understand that you need to love to live so that you can live to really love. <P>Love given is Love returned

Thanks for the reply. No advice is bad advice, however I have 2 young children to take care of being Iam a mr. mom and all. There are some good references I can use. I dont know Iam getting a bit tired here, trying to hang in is hard. Sometimes I feel like maybe Iam overally paranoid, and then something confirms my suspicions. She still is without emotion towards me, couple of kisses here and there and a I love you only when I give it to her. She tells me she wants it to work, but she also saids that Iam nasty towards her and making it very hard. Oh Boy this is some catch 22!

So, are you doing Plan A. or contemplating plan B or what...I'm confused.<BR>T