I am confused and do not know what to do. About a year and a half ago my wife started seeing another man who showed up at our front door one morning and in the haste of anger I left, she called me back 3 days later and apologized and said that they both had made a mistake in them having an affair. I came back home and we started counselling, his marriage ended up in a divorce, well my wife still see's him daily where she works at (he comes in as a customer of the establishment) she says that there is nothing going on between them, my dilema is that my wife's sexual appetite has changed dramatically, we have been married for almost 8 years and she used to want sex at least 3-4 times a week and for about the past year and a half it has now only been 1 time every 2-3 month's, she tells me to go find a girlfriend to satisfy my sexuall needs, she says that she is not in the mood like she used to be (she is 29 yrs old), I asked her if it was me and her reply is that god no, that it is awesome when we do have sex. I do not want to go out and find anyone else, I love this women and want to make it work but am having doubts. We have 2 children that come into the picture also, so a divorce is out of the question at the present time, oh yea-another reply that she gives me is that I can masterbate to relieve myself, why can't she do this for me? this is out of the question. "HELP"

Dear takenforgranted~<P> I don't know what to tell you about your wife's affair, it must be very hard to trust her now that it is all said and done. That is very good that you decided to stay with her and work things out with counceling. I guess nobody but you knows her better, but if she says that she is over with the other man, she must be.<BR> Don't worry too bad about her not making love as much as she used to, sometimes in marriages, one's sex drive goes down temporarily. I am a woman, and I have had this problem with my husband also. It's not that we aren't attracted to our husbands, sometimes we just don't feel like making love.<BR> Don't take this personally with your wife yet, just give her some time and sexual space. Once you do that, you may be suprised, she may in turn be wanting it everyday. Just don't pressure her, whatever you do, she may end up with a sex complex.

I am afraid that you have a lot of problems. What an awful story. She comes back after leaving you and your children for 3 days to have an affair and apologizes. She tells you<BR>to look for a girlfriend and masturbate to satisfy your needs. You have sex once or twice every three months and she<BR>is 29. Either she needs major therapy, she is still seeing<BR>someone or she has lost all love and respect for you. She must get into therapy or you will have to decide is this how you wish to live the rest of your life. It does not sound like a marriage to me. Sometimes reality hurts and I wish you luck.

Please consider posting on the Emotional Needs forum. You'll get more replies there.<P>Why can't she do this for you? Well, because she's not "in love" with you. That's easy enough to answer.<P>The hard part is figuring out how that happened. What was your part in creating this situation, and what can you do to help fix it? <P>You have demonstrated that direct confrontation isn't helping; she tells you to take care of your own needs and leave her alone. I'm guessing (since that's all I CAN do) that you have, in effect, been telling her the same thing (maybe without even realizing it) for some time. <P>Have you read the Basic Concepts on this site? Are you familiar with the concept of Emotional Needs, and what the most common needs are for women? There's a questionnaire you can print off and fill out for each other, but you can do a lot by working with the usual ones if she isn't willing to work with you right now.<P>Read up on Plan A, too. That's where you need to start. Figure out what you haven't been doing for her that you should have (meeting Emotional Needs). Figure out what you have been doing that you shouldn't have (LoveBusters). And make a plan for repairing your relationship.<P>I haven't counseled with the Harleys, but those who have recommend them highly.<P>I wish you luck. You're in a very difficult situation, but others here have been in similar -- or even worse -- ones. It's a long, hard road. Be strong.

"she tells me to go find a girlfriend to satisfy my sexual needs"<P>Her opinion of you is summarized in the above statement. She doesn't love you. Either she is still in an affair or still thinking about the OM. Advise that both of you go for marriage counselling to address the issues in your marriage. <P>

Thanks to everyone who wrote, there was a lot more that I could not write because I would have wrote a book, believe me when I say that I agree with everyone, Our counsellor has been trying to get her to open up and she states that she is telling the truth, a major item that I left out was that she does not do anything around the house, I cook, clean, give the kids baths and pull out their clothes for the next day, she complains when she has to do anything like this, I have always tried to give her everything that she wanted and have always put her on a pedastal, She states that she loves me very much, and have even heard her talking in her sleep and have actually tried to carry a conversation with her while she was asleep, and believe it or not she even states that she loves me in her sleep, her boss whom is a very good friend of mine has also told me that there is nothing going on with her and the OM, he said that he did not even know about the last time, and he is there all day with her and states that when he comes in (the OM) that she talks to him in a professional manner, customer wise. Heck she even attacked me yesterday morning, stating how much she enjoyed it and how good it made her feel, of course I had to make a comment that I guess that since she wanted it that she would get it from me and that I guess that I was satisfied like a vehicle's oil change every 3 month's or 3000 miles. enough for now, Once again thank you all.

Takenforgranted, by reading of what you said, your wife acknowledges that you are there, but her actual respect, love and mind for you are not. Considering that the two of you have kids, makes the situation even harder, but you MUST and I mean you MUST confront her on this as well as the other guy. I would say MAN but he's not one. If my wife ever cheated on me, I would give her hell in reality. So confront her and this guy about it, and be the MAN that you are and put a stop to all this. Cause once she cheats on you the trust is gone, and extremely hard to regain.

TFG wrote:<BR>"....a major item that I left out was that she does not do anything around the house, I cook, clean, give the kids baths and pull out their clothes for the next day, she complains when she has to do anything like this, I have always tried to give her everything that she wanted and have always put her on a pedastal..."<P>Dear TFG,<BR>Look at your name, then read the above paragraph. Hon, you have done far TOO much. She is walking all over you, and I'm afraid and sorry to say that it sounds to me like while she may love you, she doesn't respect you. Some people think being on a pedestal is their 'due', as if just by being born, they are deserving of this honor. Then, by sheer luck they run into someone like you. She fell into a honeypot when she met you, TFG! I think I'd drop dead if my H ever offered to cook a meal or do the dishes, etc. (not exactly true--he does help me when I am recovering from surgeries, which I go through at the rate of at least one a year. Then, he's a doll!)<P>The sad part is that no one can be taken advantage of without their permission. While you meant to shower her with love and devotion, she took it as her 'right' to be so spoiled, and you allowed this to happen. Very few women look at such a helping mate as being the 'man' of the house. After a while, he becomes almost like a mother to her! Honest! Think about it: who did her cooking, washing, cleaning before she was an adult? Her mom, which YOU have conveniently replaced. As much as I love my H, even though we are going through a very rough time right now, I think my skin would crawl if he started doing all of my chores and things. <P>You both have some issues here that need further work and counseling, I think. You meant well, but got used and abused--and she isn't even aware of why her sex drive for you has sunk so low. Now, please remember that all this is just my opinion, but it's a female's point of view. If you are not as attractive sexually to her as you used to be, you need to find out why. That's step one. ASK her. Also, as strange as this might sound, even though she is 29 years old, she could be starting perimenopause. It usually hits women in their mid-30's, but that is not written in stone. Perhaps her hormone levels are off, and perhaps a lot of things. What needs to be done is truthful communication on both parts, yours and hers.<P>Good luck and please keep us all updated!<BR>Hugs,<BR>Winny<p>[This message has been edited by Winnytoo (edited May 24, 2001).]

Well, the latest update is as follows, this past Sunday she invites the family (8 adults & kids on her side), over to the house for a BBQ, she lets me know at about 4:00 p.m. (I was at work covering for her at her job where I sometimes help them/her out)) that they will be arriving around 5:00, I explained to her that I was tired, because not only working my job from 7:00 a.m until 5:00 p.m. daily that she had had me on the schedule at her work on Wed thru Sunday from 5:20 - 9:00, well this did not go over to well for her, she got upset and all the time that I was outside BBQ'ing (in the rain) she kept calling me a MF etc, well after enough of this I let her have it also telling her ungrateful she was etc. all this happened in front of the family and the next thing I know she is telling me that she wants a divorce, I went inside and went to bed, Monday she says that she still wants a divorce and takes her rings off and gives them to me with the insurance papers for them, Tuesday she goes out with friends and comes in at 1:40 in the morning drunk and she takes her clothes off gets on top of me and gives me a passionate kiss and hugs and holds me for about 5 min. (nothing happened), she then tells me that I have until Friday to get out and that now she is going to get her seperation that she has been wanting, (what happened to the divorce that she wanted 2 days earlier, I say to myself) she falls asleep, Thursday she has a major hangover and goes to work and gets off early and comes home to bed, I get home and she tells me that she is going out of town to our property in another town (whis is a campground) and that I am not invited, (memorial day weekend), she tells me that If I will help her paint the childrens daycare (which she volunteered for in return we would get free daycare for the rest of the summer) that I could stay until Sunday when she returns, she then stated that I had to leave Monday. Or whenever we got thru with the painting. I called her a little bit ago to make sure that she was alright with traveling in this lousy weather we are having and she said that she is heading out there in about 2 hours, I asked her to call me when she was leaving and to call me when she got there (about 2 hours drive), to let me know that her and the kids made it alright, well she just said yea in a sarcastic way, I am lost here, first it is divorce and then seperation, she holds me, kisses me stc. she will not tell me that she loves me anymore, but she did tell me last night that she does love me but does not like me, is this a roller coaster ride or what, part of me is telling me to pack up and leave for good and not even try to save this marriage/family, but then I love her very much and the children. H E L P.

TFG, <BR>In some ways, I am on a similar roller coaster. One day, my H wants a separation, or a divorce, or he tells me "just go back to (our other property), why don't you?" and so on. The next thing I know, he's back to making plans for house repairs, our future, etc. ???? Some fun, eh?<P>With your case, she is giving YOU orders and making her feelings quite clear. How you are keeping your self together and your wits about you is just amazing to me--God bless and help you.<P>I'm new here, but I've seen a lot of people post something like this: call or contact Dr. Harley, if at all possible (I think his name is Steve, and he is the son of Dr. W. Harley). I think that is a good idea, TFG. You are in a kind of shock right now and not liable to make good decisions, or decisions that are good for the moment. <P>Your wife is, in my opinion, very abusive towards you emotionally and verbally. I know, because my H is the same way. Irate, inflammed and intense one moment, then cool as glass the next. It's enough to drive anyone nuts!<P>Please..you need someone in your corner right now, TFG. Call or contact someone-- a priest, minister, counselor, Dr. Harley..whatever, but whatever you do, don't just do nothing. My heart just breaks for you, and I am so sorry for the pain you must be in. Your wife is telling you things you are not hearing for some reason. You need to find out what that reason is, and the sooner the better.<P>Good luck to you and God bless,<BR>Winny<p>[This message has been edited by Winnytoo (edited May 25, 2001).]

Good morning, Well here it is Tuesday morning, the weekend went so-so, My Wife and children returned from out of town on Sunday and we took care of painting the daycare as planned, and then resumed on Monday (memorial day), she kept calling me Baby all day long, and then last night she kept asking me when was I leaving, I told her that tomorrow (Tueasday), because that was what she wanted me to do, she asked me where I was going to stay, and I told her the truth, that I did not know, I have no family here because I am not from here, the only family I have here is her family, She received a call from her friends inviting her to go out again tonight, I am tempted to tell her that I will watch the children so that she can go out, as long as I can stay at the house for the night, but at the same time part of me says no, dont do it. We did not argue any these past few days, I left this morning with her giving me a big hug and a few kisses, oh-yea and on Sunday night she told me that she does want a Divorce and not a seperation, so here we go back on that roller coaster ride. I am also scheduled to work at her store tonight, and am also supposed to go by the house after work so that I can get some clothes. Well that is the latest, oh and the question arises about wheather I should drop her from my medical insurance and drop her vehicle from the auto insurance, which would save me money, she says that she would give me a check for her part of the vehicle insurance if I leave her vehicle on my policy, what am I supposed to do? I believe that by me dropping her out of everything that that shows her that I am giving up, which I do not want to give up just yet. Thank you for all of your advice.

Your wife doesn't know what she wants.<P>I don't understand why you would move out. Why should you? What did you do? It's your house too and those are your children. If I were you, I would NOT move out. No way. Don't worry about anyone else but try to see what is going on. If you are doing all the caretaking, what is she doing to keep your family together? <P>Don't leave. If she wants to leave, that is up to her but you need to think of your children and try to work things out.<P>I think you should pray and read your Bible if you have one, talk to a minister, talk to Steve Harley but do not leave your house. How would you explain that to your children? If she files for divorce, don't get angry (as best you can) but don't cooperate. <P>Lord - help this man and wife to remain together. It is so hard to be married. Bring them close to You in this big trial and let this man have the peaceful strength that only you can give. Amen.

Thank you for the prayer, why do I leave the house? About 6 years ago we seperated for about 5 months and I went my way (local) and she went her way (local), I got my own apartment as did she, We reconciled and she had me move in with her and the children, everything great until last year, the apartment/house is in her name, and also if I do not leave she will have the police escort me out as she has already stated to me the other night, and now I get more bad news from my human resources at work, that my ex-wife has filed with the child support enforcement for child support which she will get, they are going to start garnishing my wages, and then with the current wife I have 1 child that is mine, more support, I had an agreement with my ex-wife and ex-mother in-law whom both said that I need not pay any more support to them because she was living with her mother and her mother is very wealthy, this was agreed by all 3, (maybe I should have gotten this in writing), well now they want support, I just feel like climbing under a rock, I do not make the amount to support myself and both of the ex-wife's support payments, (well 1 ex-wife and the current wife), maybe I need a good lawyer, but with my predictament who could afford one. I pray to the lord that he help me with answers to my questions, but so far no answers, I am tired. Thank you.

TFG,,,,<P> I was just reading your post. I would like to share with you some observations.<P> Your wife is sending you on a roller coaster ride that you don't like, so why are you constantly buying a ticket?<P> She comes in late, drunk, all affectionate after telling you to get lost, and YOU ALLOW HER TO DO THIS. Why lay there and let her be all sweet and loving and then smack you with,"when are you leaving?" Draw some boundaries here. Don't act like everything is fine. You're confused, upset and angry. Let her know that. Don't take whatever she decides she wants to give and just hope she will change her mind. She is walking all over you and you are giving her permission to do it.<P> She wants to stay on your insurance, she's bargaining with you about staying in the house while she knows you have no where to go. Why allow this? It sounds like to me that she wants no part of you,,,just what you can give her right now. Take her off the insurance, tell her that you aren't amking anymore deals with her and find your own place. Don't keep going both ways. Decide on a course of action and stick to it. You can't bring her back if she doesn't want to come back. And right now it sounds like she doesn't. <P> Don't let her use you anymore. Take some of your self-respect back and say no to her. TFG, she is pulling your strings as clear as day. Learn how to draw some boundaries for yourself, stop allowing her to wipe her feet on you.<P> stand up straight, take a deep breath, and act. I know it is scary. But which is scarier?? Letting her control you or controlling your own actions? With the roller coaster she is on right now, I would vote for self control.<P> I went through something similar with my H, and let me tell you, I wouldn't change my course of action for anything. Once I stood up for myself and continued to do so, my h found respect for me that I didn't know existed. I didn't believe it ever would exist. He takes on his own responsibilities now, in the house as well as in the relationship. And it all started with me saying NO! It's not perfect, it's even hard sometimes. But nothing worth having comes easy.<P>Good luck.<BR>Wolf<P>------------------<BR>"You can't think your way into a new way of living. <BR>You have to live your way into a new way of thinking."<BR>Passionate Marriage<BR>David Schnarch, Ph.D.

I know that states have different laws, but in NM and TX the police and courts will not throw a spouse out of the marriage home. It does not matter who owns the house. Each spouse the the legal obligation to support each other and their children. There is no reason why the man should be the one to leave. Another issue is that the courts will usually would rather that the children stay in the family home they are used to so that their lives are disrupted as little as possible.<P>My current husband held his ground, he now has custody of the children. He told her that he would not leave. That if she wanted to give up her boyfriend and work on the marriage she could stay. Otherwise she'd have to leave without the children. She left. She looked pretty bad to the courts since she was drinking, doing drugs and living with a boy friend. My husband got custody of his children. He and I are now raising them. They see their mother three times a year now - Xmas, spring break, and one month in the summer. <P>But I really don't think you want a divorce. If you have not already done so, read the material on this web site. Then read "Surviving an Affair" by Dr. Harvley. The marriage builder material is wonderful. My H and I are using it to rebuild our marriage from the ground floor up after his affairs. We now have a relationship much better then before. Give it a go.<P>You might also want to go to the General Questions II forum under Infidelity on this web site. There are a lot of us dealing with similar issues to yours over there.<P>Good Luck<BR>Z<BR><P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

I have not checked up on the laws here in Missouri, but so far I am still at the house, I have tried not to stir the fire by bringing up about her wanting me to leave, she did say last night though that she wanted me to leave and if I did not that she was taking the children and going to stay at her mothers until I found somewhere to stay, Today I hear her talking to our babysitter about the sitter watching the children on Wednesday nights all summer so that we can go to the pool leagues, and of course the sitter said yes, so I am really confused, get out or what? I dont think so, go out with her? It would probably be in my best intrest if I did. Well that is the current update, she still is denying any wrong doings with this OM.

Hey TFG! Take it from me...the police will not remove you from the home. Now, if you two are arguing, they will always take the man out of the home first..but they don't say...YOU CAN't COME BACK. That is up to the apartment complex and would have to be settled in civil court...it has nothing to do with the police.