My wife and I have been married for 18 years and we have 2 great kids - 15 and 12. Over the past couple of years or sex life has been decreasing. Over the past few months that evolved to no physical touching at all (hugging, kissing etc.). I absolutely love my wife. We have an open and honest relationship and have worked on any problems or disagreements -- and we have had the usual "normal family problems" over the past 18 years. We have talked recently and she no longer has the "fire". She says she loves me but I think she is no longer "in-love" with me. She has commented on how things have been much better over the past year or so in regards to helping around the house etc. Also she has told me that I have not done anything "wrong". She has a very satisfying job and enjoys her work. We just started counseling and have one session done...the usual historical stuff. No surprises and we both were fairly comfortable with the topics and information discussed. The counselor has asked to see us separately next week -- which was a little surprising to both of us. We have talked about how we felt counseling would or could help. There is a strong impression that it won't fix anything...which is true in a sense...my wife and I have to fix it. But I am worried that it is just going to reinforce the "reality" that she no longer is in love with may and will eventually see separation as the only alternative. She will come to accept the drastic affect a separation will have on The house, neighboorhood, lifestyle and most importantly, the kids. I've read alot of "stuff" on the internet and quite frankly, the things I read did not offer me much hope that we will not end up in a divorce. Appreciate any reponse that can offer suggestions or what the likelyhood of saving my marriage.

I'm afraid I won't be much help, but you haven't gotten any replies yet, and I went through sort of the same thing after 7 years of marriage. We are now divorced, though I didn't want to. My ex said similar things, that I was a wonderful husband and father, it's just her, etc. Sometimes though, she made it CLEAR what I had done wrong. I also filled out the emotional needs questioniere here, and discovered a lot of ugly things about myself.<P>I'm not sure why what happened with your W happens, but I think at the basis is that it's easy to get tired of a relationship, even one as long and fulfilling as yours, and after a long while, that dissatisfaction builds up. I think it's sometimes impossible to counteract once that feeling is on the surface, unless your W is patient and mature enough to do anything she can with you to save your marriage.<P>I'm thinking a good way to avoid this in the first place is the "family meeting" concept described in the "Don't Sweat the Small Stuff for Families" book, as well as several other books and I think many counselors suggest it. A regular time for everyone in the family to talk about anything bothering them, and anything they appreciate. Anything said at the meeting has to be greeted with respect, if not agreement. I'm going to try this in my next family. In fact, I've already started it with my 4yo, though she's too young to truly participate. I want to get her used to the feeling that she can say anything she wants. Actually, she now asks for family meetings, even though she'll then say, "No, nothing's bothering me!"<P>I think you sometimes need drastic change in your life too. A new career, a huge project to work on together outside of work that teaches you, like maybe volunteering for a month at something you know nothing about. A new career makes you in many ways a different person that your spouse will (hopefully!) want to get to know.<P>I failed, so what I say is just guesses. I truly hope things work better for you.

HI, Alone,<BR>First, I just want to say I am so sorry for the emotional pain I know you are feeling right now. I am going through the very same thing with my H, and although he says that he doesn't hate or dislike me and will even admit that he cares for me, the sad truth is that he is not in love with me at this time. Also, I truly believe he has an EA going on with a female acquaintance of his but he staunchly denies this. Had I no proof or concrete reasons to believe this, I might believe him but proof is proof, after all.<P>Anyway, we have been together for 17 years, 13 of them married. We, too, went through all kinds of ups and downs like any marriage but once I got sick, our marriage took a severe nose dive. Things only spiraled downward from there, and honestly, right now I do not know for sure if our marriage is going to survive or not. BUT..I can tell you this: TALK, talk and talk some more. We've passed the fighting stage, and neither of us is in the withdrawl stage, but we are really and honestly talking to each other about what bothers or has bothered us. We are making some surprising discoveries, too, along the way. <P>Fighting is not going to help, neither is the silent treatment, pouting, or sniping. Once we went through all of those stages and behaviors, we suddenly came to our senses and started to tell each other things that were really on our minds. It was difficult at first, but with each talk now, it's getting easier to do. For instance, he had no idea (believe it or not) that most of my recent behavior was motivated by pure jealousy. I was so torn up inside just imagining him with another woman that it colored my moods and just about everything I said or did. Once I was able to admit that to him and to communicate that to him in plain language, it was as if a cloud lifted. He understood my feelings! This is something that hasn't happened between us in a dog's age. Our conversations were more of a "I'm just waiting until you're done talking so that I can talk" variety. Not now, though. NOW, we are not only hearing the words, but truly listening to each other.]<P>Trust me, Alone. The reasons and/or clues are all there. The only things you can do at this point are just two things: either hang in there and honestly communicate with each other, or split up. What else is there to do? All you can do is your best--and my H and I have chosen to give it one last try. A year ago I would not have believed any of this was going to happen to us, but it did. I thought our marriage was rock-solid and "perfect." I've come to realize that NOTHING is perfect, not even the best marriage, and that's a huge realization. <P>So, keep those family talks going and most importantly, talk one on one with your W and never stop sharing your feelings with her, too. God bless you and good luck...<BR>Hugs,<BR>Winny

Thanks,<BR>I was beginning to think I either posted in the wrong area or no one was going to reply. We have been to 2 sessions. The initial and each of us separately. I haven't seen much change. Wife says she would talk between sessions but has not initiated any. When I bring it up, she didn't want to talk about it. I am reluctant to "press the issue" and she will not discuss when kids are in the house. I don't want to make her feel she is under any pressure. <BR>So far, I feel the environment is the same. She shows no interest in any physical contact with me. I am finding very hard to get through this day-by-day. I find my self loooking at any gesture, or something she says to give me some hint as to what direction all this is going. The hardest part is that when I look at her eyes I do not see "me" in them. I am trying to hold on but I don't know how much longer I can go w/o some sort of "sign". We are going to a graduation party for one of her cousins -- which includes most of her family. This will be very hard for me to put on a "false front" that everything is OK. However, we are suppoosed to RSVP to a wedding by 7/1 for a wedding of a family acquaitance's son in August. I can't commit to going if the situation stays as it is. I am wrong for drawing a line in the sand??? <BR>Thanks....

HI, Alone...<BR>No, I don't necessarily think you are wrong for wanting to know where you stand with your wife, however, one thing I've learned over this past year is that a reluctant partner will not open up until they are ready to. I've tried barnstorming, crying, even went as far as throwing out some really harsh remarks--and nothing worked at all. He just clammed up and I got that same "no look" look from him that you talked about coming from your wife. I know how devastating that is!! AT one point, I even considered suicide, I was so down! I quickly talked myself out of that idea, but it was scary nonetheless that it even occured to me.<P>You may need far more than just two counseling sessions--and in some cases it can be a real help. But with others, perhaps not. It all depends on what the problem is. Please forgive me in advance for even suggesting this, but have you considered the idea that someone else may have caught her attention? The reason I am asking is because I've learned that evasive behavior means the covering up of some deep secret, and what could be more devastating all around than an affair? In my case, I firmly believe that my H had an affair with a woman that we both know, and as much as he still denies it, he can't deny the love letter from her to him that I found, nor the other little gifts and things that he carelessly "hid". <P>Seven months ago is when I first found the letter and confronted him with it. My life quickly deteriorated into one of terrible fights, cruel things said and oh, too much to go into here. I was utterly and completely broken in spirit, and it has taken me all this time to find myself again. I never would have believed he'd do such a thing, but it happened. It only proved that despite my feeling that he was an above-average person, he is still only quite human.<P>Enough about me for now, I just wanted to present my question to you with some background first. If your wife is steadfastly reluctant to discuss the state of your marriage with you, that could be a very red flag. I'd start looking for clues, if for any other reason than to dispel the suspicion you may be feeling. It is a known fact that an alarming number of WS's (wandering spouses) will deny an affair and never, ever admit to it. Some do break down over time and eventually admit it, but from what I've read on this site, they are in the minority by far. <P>Keep your wits about you, start looking for clues and if you find something you don't understand, ASK her about it. See what reaction you get and go from there. Let's face it--phone bills are easy to decipher, and if you find she is hiding too many things from you (bills, charge account statements, even bank accounts!...), then you may have a WS on your hands. <P>Also, please do read everything you can that Dr. Harley wrote and made available on this site. It couldn't hurt, and just might help to save your marriage.<P>Good luck to you and please keep us posted. I truly do care, and am praying for ALL of us in this miserable boat!<P>Hugs,<BR>Winny

Thanks again. It really helps to share thoughts with people who have had (or living) this unfortunate experience. I do not believe she is having an affair. She really does not have the time. She works in the education field and does have many after school meetings. But I and the therapist have both asked on separate occasions the "is there anyone else question". She steadfastly says no -- would never do that to me. Also, she is a great mother and I do not believe she would never risk doing that kind of thing. Plus, I do get all the bills and there is nothing suspicious. Also, she has asked me what week she should put in this summer for vacation...<BR>Anyways, the "empty look" is a very devastating thing to endure. We have been with each other for about half of our lives now. If we were just "going out" I have to believe she would have broken up with me. The fact that we have so much of our lives invested with each other is causing her anxiety too. My thought is she is just as nervous at the thought of "being single" and all the drastic changes it will bring about. But, no matter what I do, I can not make her "be in love" with me. It has to come from her. I am willing to wait as long as I can, but I need some signs of progress or some indication that she still feels this way. I do not want to rush or pressure the situation, but I do deserve something.<BR>Regards....

Dear Alone,<BR>I am very glad to hear that you sincerely feel there is no other person in your W's life. One thing that came to my mind as I read your post is that so many couples seem to fall into this trap. Together for so long, the spark seems dead and sometimes, it truly does die. Can it be gotten back again? I believe that it can, but it takes trying from both partners.<P>I also believe that "mid life crisis" is a very real thing and not just a trendy term. Perhaps she is having some hormonal imbalances and may not even realize it. <P>It sounds like you need to rekindle that spark, all right. Do you know what's odd? Before our own personal crisis, I was feeling almost the same way towards my H as your W is towards you. I mean, I truly did (and still do) love him, but the thought of being intimate with him just hit me wrong somehow. Why? Well, for starters, I got tired of being put second, third or even farther down on the waiting list for his time and attention. He never looked at me anymore--I mean really LOOKED at me, right in the eyes and with tenderness and/or excitement in his own. Sex seemed to be more about him reaching his climax than anything else. If I did, fine, If I didn't, who cared? Not him.<P>I don't know when the last time is that he said, "I love you" to me. When was the last time he took me in his arms and really hugged me?? I have no idea. Instead of taking care of my emotional needs, he only took care of his own and I took care of his, too. The only thing is that I became a non-entity in our marriage, except for chief cook and bottlewasher, laundress, etc. etc.<P>Now...I know what you must be thinking! "she must be fat, out of shape and a real drudge." Nope. Far from it! For my age, I am in marvelous shape, illness and all. I weigh a trim 110 pounds, am average height and have a really decent figure. In fact, I made sure I didn't age and let myself go like so many women do. Just the opposite, in fact. Heads still turn when I walk down the street or into the pool at the Y. So, what's wrong??? Well, what's wrong is that my H got very complacent and took me for granted. And, I eventually became very angry. That anger spoiled any sexual feelings for me that I might have had, although "like a good wife" I still catered to him and tried my best to please him. It was awful for me--empty, cold and nothing what love is supposed to feel like.<P>If any of the things I've said here sound familiar to you in any way, Alone, then you need to do some homework! Women NEED to be treated as special, as desirable, as 'the only woman in the world for me.' When friends, hobbies, work or what-all come before her constanly, the spark eventually goes out. IF she loves you, and I mean truly loves you, she will appreciate your attending to her emotional needs. It might make that spark reignite, too.<P>Just making suggestions here for you, because I know all too well from both sides of the story what it feels like. Why did my H stray? Ultimately, it was his own doing. Had he treated me like I meant something more to him than just a housekeeper, I would have thrown him down on the floor and...er....never mind. You get the picture! But, he never caught on and I tried to TELL him this, but he wouldn't listen. Too macho. He never did anything wrong. Right. <sigh!><P>Let me know what you think about all this, ok? Hang in there...it may not be too late for you after all!<BR>Hugs,<BR>Winny

Well, I can certainly say I want to hug and kiss and all that. She has been #1 with me for a long time. The issue is that she does not seem to desire physical contact of any type. She loves it from the kids etc but says that is different. I think about this situation constantly. I wonder if she thinks about it at all during the day? The frustrating thing is that I can't do much to help this without input from her. If the spark has "died" in her then can it be re-lit? If not, no matter what I do say or try, will bring her back to me. Even though we are very civil and friendly around the house, I believe I deserve to know what deep feeling she may still have about me. I am wondering if the only thing that holds her with me is the kids, house and the "fear" of what changes will come to our entire lifestyle if it comes down to a separation. But, I can not endure this pain much longer and I am not just going to roll-over and give away everything that I feel is important to me. I am trying to formulate a list of questions to ask so I can know more and at least let her know that I still want our relationship very badly. As for the hormonal thing -- I have thought of that but I sincerely doubt she would ever consent to that kind of treatment. She has a strong belief in Homeopathic medicine.

Dear Alone,<BR>I re-read Trying2beme's post and he makes a lot of good sense. Perhaps your W is just tired of your relationship; perhaps it just feels stale to her. You know, women wrestle with a lot of issues that somehow seem to espcape men. For one, the getting older issue: for men, it's more of a what have I done with my life and is this all there is kind of thing. For women, it's more of a did I really make the best choices for my life and how soon before I'm old, wrinkly, saggy and unattractive thing. She may have inner feelings that have nothing to do with you personally (part of getting older) and she doesn't know how to deal with them. You mention you have teenagers. She may be thinking 'what will I do with my life once the kids are grown and gone?' (the empty nest syndrome). Also, you didn't mention it yet, but are yours and her parents still living, and if so, are they in good or poor health? Now, that can be an issue at some not-too-distant future point that can hit a woman like a ton of bricks. Are there other siblings to help out--or will your W be the mainly responsible one? <P>You really do need to sit down and talk with her, as I'm sure you already know. From what I gather, she is reluctant to discuss the physical side of your marriage, but it seems like she would discuss anything else. Alone, honestly, when a woman turns so completely "off", there is a reason. But, to not even want to discuss it--that is truly some kind of red flag. Discussing things means being open and honest, and if there is something else going on, she would not want you to know about it. As much as this seems inconceivable to you, shutting your eyes to the possibility will get you nowhere fast. <P>Just make your list of questions, sit her down when no kids are present and get her talking to you. Ask her if she is angry about something you did or are doing, and ask her if she is worried about the future. Ask her if there is anyone else and if she wants to know why you asked that, tell her that that is one reason spouses deny sex with their partners, and you just want to know. <P>I truly do wish you the best of luck, Alone. I know the pain you are going through but in my case, at least part of the truth came out and it's a starting point for rebuilding our marriage. He did admit to a "close friendship" with this woman and I told him that he is playing with fire and might get badly burned.<P>Keep us updated, ok? Hugs and best wishes to you...<BR>Winny

Well, we went out to dinner yesterday and we talked more after we got home. I was a mess at home...she says that there is not anyone who probably loves her more than I do. She thinks that this has been building for a while...which made me feel even worse that there was some sort of big flashing light I somehow missed. I asked her what attracted her to me in the beginning etc. The stunning statement is that she said she would be gone if it were not for the kids. I am still trying to digest the entire meaning behind that statement. She still wants to continue to do the counseling, which was my idea in the beginning. This leaves me with a feeling there still may be some tiny hope for us yet. She said nothing has changed on how she feels about me. So I told here what I was looking for -- talks between the two of us in between sessions. I asked for her to try to reach out and let us enjoy some simple physical stuff like hugs and kiesses etc. She is worried that she will be sending the "wrong signal" and get my hopes up when nothing has actually changed. I told her that I would try very hard not to read more into these attempts... She does realize that if we separate, it will bring a drastic change to our entire lifestyle. She says the kids are the most and only important thing. To me, sometimes I wonder if she already has made up her mind on how this is going to turn out. Do I need to look into representation to make sure I do not lose out? I believe we both would try to be as cordial as possible, but I know both of us can't get our way. I just want to be prepared so I know I can get the best for me and my kids too.<BR>Regards....

HI, Alone,<P>My heart truly aches for you and again, I am so sorry for the deep pain you are in right now. I got a very similar speech re: things building up for a long time and I didn't even realize it. In fact, if you read a lot of posts on this site, you will see the same thing expressed over and over again. There is an excellent thread called "Out Of The Blue" (do a search..you'll find it) where dozens of folks feel just like you and I do: it just seemed to come 'from out of the blue.' <P>Yes, you are quite right in that she probably does not realize how much her entire life would change if the two of you went your separate ways. There could be a very good reason for this and I urge you to read on and read more posts on this excellent site. Just think about this for a moment. It's easier to make a decision like this when there is some sort of security in the picture. That is, what IF there were someone waiting patiently in the wings for her? It wouldn't be such a horrific experience then, would it? This was an idea that came from my brother to me way back when I felt like my world was going upside down. I was so offended he even mentioned something like this to me--but it turned out he was dead-on right. I sincerely hope and pray this isn't the case for you, and it might well NOT be. Still, it's something to tuck away for future reference, just in case.<P>As for should you get an atty. right now....Alone, I think that's a very good idea. I finally saw one and it accomplished two things: I found out what my rights are in this state (we moved to a new state just last year), and my H stepped back a moment when he found out and started to look at what he was doing in a whole new light. It really got his attention, and he is very anxious now and worried. He never thought I'd do such a thing, and suddenly his new 'interest' (and the life he has fantasized with her) isn't looking so attrative any more. When faced with the reality of REALLY splitting up, he is having more than second thoughts now on wanting to do it. It's one thing to think about it and fantasize about it, but when the line is drawn in the sand, it's quite another thing to cross it. <P>The only thing is that now I am not so sure I want to stay with him. He has hurt me to my very core, and destroyed my happy, safe and secure world with him. Things may never be the same with us again, and to me, that is really sad. I thought we had a great marriage and no one was more shocked than I when it came out of the blue. I am trying Plan A and at least things seem to be calming down a lot more and we are really talking/communicating. As much as what your W says may hurt or shock you, try to keep as calm as you can and let her continue to express her thoughts and feelings. This is the only way you are going to find out (and you WILL find out, eventually) what is bothering her. Don't be too quick to want to hold or hug her--she already knows you are in her corner, no matter what. Perhaps if you withdraw a bit that will shock her into reality. Believe me, I know what I'm saying! Once I pulled back from my H and then later on went to a lawyer for advice, he started to rethink things and now we are having talks that count.<P>Good luck..hang in there and stay strong!<BR>Hugs..<BR>Winny<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Winnytoo (edited June 20, 2001).]

Alone - God can and will restore your marriage. Pay no attention to what your wife is saying. The Lord will give you the desires of your heart.<P>You need to pray, fast and believe that the Lord WILL restore your marriage. God IS NOT a man that He should lie.<P>You don't need a counselor, you need the Almighty God to restore your marriage. He WILL do it. Trust Him. Our God is bigger than our marriage problems. There is nothing too hard for our God. Think of all the things the Lord has done for you in the past. He will do it again.<P>Trust God. He will do it for you.<P>I will also keep you in my prayer.

We have our next session tonight. I am hoping the therapist will start getting a little more specific. I know we have been to two sessions so far, but she has been very generic and seems to get sidetracked into areas that my wife and I do not think are the reason. After my wife and I talked two days ago, I actually feel a little better. I do not know really why...she did not even shed a tear during the whole conversation. But I did get some information on how she felt. I told her that I am seeing no attempts from her to reach out to me. She replied that she is afraid of sending me the wrong "signal"...does not want to raise my hopes if her feelings have not changed. I told her that I would try not to read anything more into it but I felt it was important that she tried to interact more. How else is she going to find out her "true" feelings? It so weird in some ways. We are "fine" together -- no arguing etc. If you were to look at us from the outside, you would think all was calm and smooth.... One question I do struggle with is how long do we go on before I know she will never come back? <BR>Regards....

Your lives have become so "robotic" that you have forgotten about each other<P>Write your partner a card invitation to a dinner<P>Do not say too much to each other<P>Just change your approach<P>Go out and do some fun things together<P>Say we will be "friends" Good "friends"<P>You have both worked so hard that you are experiencing burnout<P>It is normal<P>But I beleive a flame of desire still flickers there<P>Buy a gift on one occasion<P>A very small gift like a nice piece of jewellery like a ring<P>Do not worry too much to say too much<P>Go for a quiet almost speechless walk after your outings on a lovely warmish evening<P>Go to the jacuzzi together and give each other a backrub at home using baby oil<P>The rest will come alive again<P>Carol<BR>kidnpuppetshows@hotmail.com<P>Mail me if you wish<BR>christian counsellor<BR>prayer partner<BR>and friend<BR>

Thanks Carol. You bring up some points that I feel and have expressed. I have sent my wife gifts in the past...flowers etc. They do not "do much for her". It is not that she does not appreciate them, it is just not her style. I have bought her some jewelry and she likes and wears them, but she says they are things I want her to have. For example, I wanted to replace her diamond, but she told me that she is perfectly happy with the size of the one she has...does not want a larger diamond. I am trying to change the "approach" but it has got to be 2-way street. She has to find out if she even wants to have a relationship with me anymore. I do not know that answer. I guess the therapist is supposed to be helping us discover that... I am not giving up on her yet! <BR>Regards...

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Alone-in-CNY:<BR><B>Thanks Carol. You bring up some points that I feel and have expressed. I have sent my wife gifts in the past...flowers etc. They do not "do much for her". It is not that she does not appreciate them, it is just not her style. I have bought her some jewelry and she likes and wears them, but she says they are things I want her to have. For example, I wanted to replace her diamond, but she told me that she is perfectly happy with the size of the one she has...does not want a larger diamond. I am trying to change the "approach" but it has got to be 2-way street. She has to find out if she even wants to have a relationship with me anymore. I do not know that answer. I guess the therapist is supposed to be helping us discover that... I am not giving up on her yet! <BR>Regards...</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hi, Alone...<BR>I just wanted to add this one last thing: I wish your wife knew how lucky she is to have a husband like you. Most of the women on this site whose H's have lost interest for them would give anything to receive the attention you seem to give to your wife. I can't recall the last time my H gave me a gift just to surprise me, or make me happy. In fact, the last time he gave me something for Christmas was more than 10 years ago--and I cry silently inside each and every Christmas Day. I'm not being greedy, but it just hurts to see him give gifts to his students and friends but not to me. His reason? He says he 'can't afford it.' Of course, I'm supposed to understand, according to him, but I don't understand. <P>You want to hold your W, and shower her with affection. How fortunate that is for her! I wish I could speak to her and if I could, I'd tell her to kiss the ground you walk on! After 18 years of marriage you still want to show her how much you love her--and she is turning a deaf ear to you. As I am typing this, a word just popped into my mind, and forgive me for saying this, but she sounds very spoiled. She KNOWS you love her--she doesn't even have to try. Wow. I've just about done everything over the years but stand on my head for my H, and have kept myself as neat, well-groomed, trim and as "sexy" as I can--but I think I spoiled him, too. He knows I am crazy about him and HE doesn't have to try, either. <P>Maybe there is a lesson in all of this, I don't know. I just would like your wife to know from me, a heart-broken wife, that she should thank God each day for a mate like you and for all of her blessings. The very least she should do is be honest with you, acknowledge your pain and do her best to see what she can do to ease your pain. I don't think she is doing that, not until she is fully honest with you. I pray that counseling will help the two of you, and as for praying to God, yes, that will help. But you must remmeber that "no" is an answer, too, and if it is not God's will for you to remain together, then you must face that. Ask God what his will is for you and pray to accept it. Ask Him to reveal the truth to you, and He will.<P>Good luck, keep us posted.<P>Winny<BR>

I do not think it is a question of that she is "spoiled". She knows what we have built together and says she wants to keep that and have a relationship with me -- if possible. These are all positives I take from our discussions. I do not know if she has built up anger or resentment which has created a wall. She is an independent and confident person...some of the many qualities I love in her. We are like 2 pieces that fit together in a puzzle...her strengths and personality are different than mine so that together we make a great couple. I struggle with a concern that I missed some important sign(s) that may have foreshadowed this situation. But I can not go back and have to try to keep a positive outlook. My assignment this week is to write down "positives" I have brought into the marriage. My wife has to write a list of things she is angry -- not necessarily with me. <BR>I just want to take the time to thank everyone who has taken the time to share their thoughts. They have helped me get through the day and to think with my head rather than my emotions.<BR>Regards....

Its almost been a week and I am not seeing anything. The marriage counselor told me I need to be patient. This is proving to very hard. I am not unrealistic and expect a change overnight but I am expecting to see some sort of attempt. I brought her to work today and helped her bring in her stuff. She is preparing a breakfast for her staff. When we got there and I brought the stuff in the conference room she just turned and said something like I'll call you if I need a ride home. She would not even take the 15 seconds to walk with me to the door and at least give me a hug or a quick kiss. I don't know, maybe I am expecting too much. But I am starting to think she is not willing to let me back into her "tightly controlled" life. Anyone have any thoughts on how to break through?<BR>Regards...

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Alone-in-CNY:<BR><B>Its almost been a week and I am not seeing anything. The marriage counselor told me I need to be patient. This is proving to very hard. I am not unrealistic and expect a change overnight but I am expecting to see some sort of attempt. I brought her to work today and helped her bring in her stuff. She is preparing a breakfast for her staff. When we got there and I brought the stuff in the conference room she just turned and said something like I'll call you if I need a ride home. She would not even take the 15 seconds to walk with me to the door and at least give me a hug or a quick kiss. I don't know, maybe I am expecting too much. But I am starting to think she is not willing to let me back into her "tightly controlled" life. Anyone have any thoughts on how to break through?<BR>Regards...</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hi, Alone...<P>I hope you are not sick of hearing from me by now, but honestly, I am truly concerned for you because I've "been there, done that", too, and know how it feels. How sad that your W didn't even give you the common courtesy of walking you out and at least giving you a quick kiss or squeeze on the arm or something, to show her appreciation for your help.<P>You said in your last post that you didn't think she was spoiled. I don't think you understood what I meant. I meant that she is so secure in knowing YOU love HER that she doesn't even have to try. If your attention to her is not getting her attention, then perhaps you should change your tactics. Back off a bit, even for just a day or two, and see what happens. I read on this site someplace that the best difinition for insanity is doing the same thing the same way time after time and expecting different results. I am not calling you insane, Alone, but think about it: she is not responding to the things you are doing, so perhaps if you changed, she might notice and start to wonder. I did this with my H and it worked wonders. He started to think and I mean really think about me and about us. After about a month of my backing off, he came to me one day and asked me outright if there was someone else! I couldn't believe what I was hearing! It was at that point that things started to turn around for us, and today, we are really communicating and getting our lives back together.<P>Alone, don't let her know how much you love her at this point. IF she is in that fog (i.e., someone else in her life), you are only going to make her back away from you even further. If there is no one else, then you may just shake her back into reality a bit. If she has simply just fallen out of love with you (not attracted to you anymore), then she'll welcome your backing off and feel more at ease around you. The point is you need to change what you're doing, because if you keep going on in the same way, you are only going to get the same results, which at this point is nothing, or at least, not what you want.<P>Good luck...keep us posted!<BR>Hugs,<BR>Winny<P>

I am still 99.99% sure there is no one else. I have thought about some of those things...it would be very easy to do but I do not know where the line is drawn. She may feel that I am forcing her to choose now. I do not know what it would ultimately be but I would have to lean towards the separation route. I feel she has me walled out preety well. I do not want to subject the kids and go through the trauma of disassembling our lives only to find out later that she may have second thoughts. It would be very hard to put this all back to gether again once she makes a decision or clearly implies one. I personally feel she is struggling with being the "bad guy" in this and possibly trying to figure a way not to be the cause of a separation. But, there is no way I would stand for a different explaination if this happens -- no matter who initiates the "suggestion". I am not go to lay down and accept something I do not want or take the major responsibility for. I am not saying I was perfect spouse the past 18 years, but I have always known that I loved her and valued being married to her as the most important thing to me. However, I am afraid it will eventually turn into something adversarial -- which I know is not usually for the best. I only have so much patience and I do not think I am asking for a lot -- some visible attempt from my wife. It is going to answer the question either way -- she wants me in her life or not....<BR>Regards....