My husband and I are separated and looks like we are heading for divorce. We are in desperate need of marriage counseling but he refuses to go because he is convinced it won't work. He even has free counseling at his school, but that doesn't help either.<P>We've only been married 7 months, and I don't want my marriage to end. I still love him, but he says he isn't in love with me anymore, and can't be sexual with me. He has a long history of depression and I believe that is where our problems come from, but he says he was just unhappy in our marriage, to forget him, and find someone who will treat me the way I deserve to be treated. <P>We have to wait for another 6 months before filing, so I want to use this time for counseling with hopes we can get through it.<P>Any ideas on what to do?

Fishlady;<P>Definitely see if you can get him into counseling. My first Marriage ended after about the same length of time and it was not a happy scene.<P>One thing to remember though is that he is calling the shots here. I suffer bi-polar and depression and my W has had to endure a lot of my ups and downs. What does he mean when he says he isn't in love with you any more? can't be sexual? Does he mean that he got married and found out it wasn't what he wanted....or that maybe when he got married it became like a ball and chain around his neck and he couldn't go out with the boys anymore....<P>How does he think you deserve to be treated...I personally think my W should be treated like a queen and placed on a pedastal....unfortunately she doesn't.<P>If he has already determined in his mind that this marriage is over, it is going to be hard, but don't give up yet. When you say he has couneling at school, does this mean you are both in college still????<P>Let's talk about it.<BR>We are all here to help.

Freddyb<P> Thanks for you reply and sorry you had to go through it too.<BR> I'm not sure what he means when he says he doesn't want to be married anymore. He says he doesn't think he can handle it...but can't tell me anymore than that. I never had a problem with him going out with the boys or to the bar. It may be that it wasn't what he wanted, but he has repeatedly told me that ideally he would love to be married and have a family...but he is not sure he can do it??.<BR>The whole intimate thing came up for the first time the other night. He is not sure what that means either. He has told me he thinks I'm attractive in the past, but it may be now that he is not attracted to me. But, he also said that night that he can't be intimate with anyone. He said he doesn't know why he can't have a loving relationship. I truly wish he'd get help, there are so many things in his head that he needs to get out.<P> As for the counseling, he just went back to school, and they have personal and marriage counseling free of charge. I finished school last year after being away for many years.<P> One problems lies in the fact that he is 1500 miles away at school. I moved back to my parents after we split and he moved to school. My career is in marine biology and his school is in the middle of TX. I believe he feels guilty that I wouldn't work in my field, even though I told him i'm ok with that.<BR> <BR> I've considered moving to TX, although not to Austin. San Antonio is about 80 miles from him, and they have a Sea World there. If I did that then at least I can be close enough for us to try. He told me the other night that it would be nice to have me there, but we wouldn't be intimate. I can live with that temporarily if he is willing to go to counseling. In the beginning we didn't have any problems with attraction, and my looks haven't changed any.<P> When I talk to him, there are always new things he states are the problems. He is inconsistent but his message is generally the same. He tells me I should find someone who will treat me like I deserve. Someone who is affectionate and attentive.<P> I think his mind is made up, and I know it is going to be hard but I don't know what else to do. I can go and find a job in my field elsewhere and start over, but then there would be no hope left for my marriage. I don't know what to do...<P> Kathy

First of all and as is stated so often in these forums...<P>YOU ARE NOT TO BLAME FOR HIS CHOICES! hE HAS CHOSEN THIS, NOT YOU!<P>Now with that said, if he is 1,500 miles away, that makes a pretty profound statement. <P>I would try to pin him down on just exactly what he is having a problem with.<P>When did you two seperate? <P>Is there anything in your past relationship that has changed since you got married. ie, How long did you know each other before you got married? what did he do, you do, etc, etc...<P>It sounds like you have your ducks in a row and maybe he is intimidated by that....my W is a VERY confident woman and sometimes I can't handle it...makes me feel like a really am her slave....<P>Also my W is a very independint woman...that is hard to deal with at times...<P>It sounds to me like he has just given up...It would be nice to know WHY though.<P>He keeps mentioning the intimate thing....is he having a problem with his sexuality somewhere in there???<P>Just some more thoughts.<P>Remember though, you are a worthwhile person and right now you need to make sure that your needs are being met.<P>Talk to me<BR>Fred

Fred,<BR> <BR>I know I'm not to blame, but it is hard to keep thinking that way. There are times when I feel like I was the one to do something wrong. But, I have to remind myself that I didn't choose this. He did.<BR> <BR>Anyway, we were both living in IN when he decided to go back to school in TX. We separated a month ago, when we only had a week to go on our lease and before the move. We were going to meet in TX in a couple weeks after I visited my family and arranged to move some stuff out of NC. So instead of meeting up, I stayed in NC and he went on to TX.<BR> <BR> We met each other in 1999, we were living in different states and e-mailed and called each other. He was finishing his masters and was under a lot of stress between that and other stuff. He admitted at that time that he was depressed and that he should see a dr. but didn't.<BR> <BR> Anyway, we stopped talking after about six months, on his part...No reason that he could think of, he just did. About 4 months later, we started talking again. This time was different. He moved to a new state, and things were good. We talked almost every night for hours. We started visiting each other and things were great. We decided to marry a few months later. Probably not the smartest idea, but...we did.<BR>We had a great time when we were together, we get along great, make each other laugh...our wedding was beautiful...in Jamaica. Afterwards things were fine for a month or so. Then he started to slip down into his funk.<BR> <BR>I am definately more together than he is. He can be impulsive and compulsive, and I knew that when I married him. Some of that was part of his charm. I can be very reserved at times and his ability to allow himself to look goofy and be free was attractive to me. It still is. We knew the first year was going to be rough, but neither of us expected this. I'm sure it must be difficult at times to live with a woman who is independent. Most of us were brought up with the ideas that women were to be taken care of by men. I don't care what the feminist movement says (please, no hate mail from anyone, I don't mean to offend) , all little girls are read fairy tales, and that image is what sticks in their heads. However, things aren't like fairy tales and women are now allowed more freedom...(oops, got off track..sorry)<P>As for his sexuality, I don't think he is at odds with his preference. But, I know that instead of letting things happen naturally he can "overthink" things at times and that can result in a problem, if you know what I mean. But, I could be wrong. It wouldn't be the first time someone was fooled.<P> The fact is, he has given up. I don't know why. Instead of trying he finds it easier to runaway. And he admits that. He also has the uncanny ability to push his emotions so far deep inside that he can go on with life. However, they do catch up with him and he usually suffers more. <P> He is a good person, and the last thing he ever wanted to do was to hurt me. I truly believe that. I also believe that he loved me very much, might be he even still does. I can't see how things could change so quickly. <P> But, you are right. My needs have to be met and he is not capable of that right now. I wish he were.<P> Thanks for you input Fred. I appreciate the opportunity to vent and your suggestions.<P> Kathy

Hey Kathy;<P>I understand the part about talking yourself out of things...my W reminds me that I have talked myself out of more intimate time than anyone! I would wonder if the time was right, if she really wanted to, does she really enjoy it, will I enjoy it, how do I enjoy it, yada, yada, yada...<P>I guess I have competition in this department now (supposed to bring small smile)<P>Anyway, have you considered that this may be one of those funks again? Like you said, you guys went for four months that one time.....<P>As for the talking on e-mail....yeah maybe the way you guys got together was not the best way (personally, I never understood it....) ....but that is over now. You ARE married. You would like to stay that way.<P><BR>Have you talked to him in the way of "Honey, I know you are in another of your funks right now. Can we stay in touch and when you perk up again, we can sit down and logically discuss this."<P>I too suffer from those funks or mood swings. In my case, the Doc found Bi-polar and depression. With the proper meds and some real interaction with my W and Counselor, I have made some progress.<P>He really needs to see a doctor and have himself checked. Both physically and mentally. <P>Is there a way yo can fly in and spend two or three days and maybe drag him to the doc?? In my case after a particularly nasty episode of mood swinging, my W gave me an ultimatum, "Check into a Hospital for real help, or check out of the house...." I went tothe hospital because I love my W and want to be married to her.<P>He may resist. Try to tell him that you love him and that you want to try everythig possible before you file those papers. That you refuse to let this marriage fall apart. My W told me that this was it, there was no possibility of Divorce. Remind him that marriage is not something you just step in and out of...<P>I wish I had more to offer. He seems to be making some pretty stupid choices right now, like I said before, you sound like you have all your ducks in a row.<P>Let me know what's up.<P><BR>

Hi Fred,<BR> Oh, you definately have some competition. Not only can he talk himself out of things beforehand, he talks himself out things during, rolls over and says "oh well"!<P> I have considered that this is one of his funks. It is hard for other people to see a pattern with him if they haven't lived with him, but it is definately there. <P> He went to an MD a little over 2 months ago, and was told he had all the symptoms/behaviors of someone who is depressed. The Dr. even told him he thought there may be some slight bipolar indications as well. I'm not sure about that, as I have never had any experience with bipolar depression and have no idea what to expect. He didn't have severe highs and lows that I've read about...I'm not sure if there are degrees of bipolarity. Any ideas?<P> Anyway, the Dr. put him on Paxil, which my husband took for awhile but is now off of them because he says he doesn't need it. I know he won't go back to a dr or even go to a therapist because he doesn't see how any of it can help. He has said that he is beyond help, and there is nothing any therapist can say or do to help him. <P> As for now, he is going to be so involved in school and his lab work that he can easily put me and our marriage out of his mind. I have told him I am committed to our marriage and will try everything, including moving to TX to try to make it work. It didn't faze him.<P> He has to wait six months before filing for divorce according TX law. The school provides free legal services as long as it is uncontested. I can contest it and tell him he needs to seek counseling and exhaust all efforts to save this before I could consider going through with it. I'm just afraid that he will then go to counseling on spite and go in stating it won't work and not even try.<P> But then it comes down to this again...I would have to move to him in order for us to make counseling work. That is a huge risk and I need to know if I am strong enough to handle that.<P> How is stuff with your marriage? When your wife told you divorce is not an option, where you at the point where you believed your marriage was over?<P> Thanks, Fred. Talk to you soon.<BR> Kathy

Kathy;<BR>Yeah, I know about talking myself out of it during the act...not very sexy..<P>As for the degrees of bi-polar...yes there are. I used to have pretty severe swings. I had a former relationship where she would be just as nice as nice can be and then just fall off the deep end, get into drugs/alcohol, the works...made for a very interesting relationship that I had to finally let go of.<P>I tried the paxil...didn't work for me either. My doctor right now has me on Wellbutrin along with Depakote. My W has noticed that it has evened the ups and downs out some. I still have my funks...last week was one...I talked myself out of making love to her about three times....<P>I am in a frustration one today...trying to do some work on her car and don't have the right parts....she is shopping at K-Mart yet tells me that we don't have the funds for me to go get what I need.....hmmmmmmm<P>As for moving...that is entirely up to you. You mentioned Sea World at San Antonio....I was just there in March...It is a nice city. Can be hot and humid in the summer though.<BR>If you ahve a job there, I am not understanding the problem. You said he would be, what 80 miles or so away....<BR>Again, you need to look at all sides of this and if he is hell bound and determined to kill the marriage, you are not going to be able to do alot to stop him.<P>Are there aother options for you to do for work?<P>As for my marriage, She tells me that the times that she gets the most frustrated are when I get upset for, what she says, is no reason. She also hates to hear me apologize for my preceived wrongs that I have done to her. The times she has told me to leave, she has meant for me to leave the house...she has also, in moments of frustration, said that maybe we should live in different locations and still be married...for me that is not an option as I think married people should live together. Yes, there have been times I was ready to toss in the towel...those times when I feel that she is being selfish and not listening to reason. But on the whole I know in my heart I have someone who loves me and wants to make this work...<P>Now, I have debated this next thing, and don't take it personally, but if you want to take this conversation off this forum and do it as they say 'the back way', let me know and I will give you my e-mail address....You can say no too.....<P>Stay in touch.<P>Oh, I know what I wanted to ask....How are you feeling emotionally about all this? Like I said, It sounds like you are in control of everything. What do you consider to be your options right now this moment? Where would you like to go?<P>Fred

Saw your post upstairs in Other Topics....I won't bother you anymore.<P>Fred<P>Best wishes for everything good to happen.

Fred,<P> I'm not following your last post. Did I say something wrong? The other topic post was written maybe two weeks ago.<BR>My husband is not an alcoholic, when he is depressed he has the tendency to go out 1x or 2x a week and drink. He was never physically abusive, nor was he emotianallly abusive. Throughout this all, he has continued to assure me that I am a good person and have a lot to offer. Not once has he put me down or insulted me. Believe me, I've had someone do that to me a long time ago, and this is nothing like that.<BR> So, I don't know why you don't want to talk anymore. I'm sorry if I offended you. Write again if you feel like it or to tell me what happened.<BR> Nice talking to you.<BR> Kathy

I just thought that you did not feel you were getting anything out of our discussion and wanted some other advice. This sometimes happens to me and I am pretty good about getting out of the way for a while..it was nothing personal and I was not offended.<P>Like I said, and if it is not clear, let me restate it for the record;<P>Your husband is blind if he wants to leave you. You seem to be a really nice lady who has her stuff together. Again, you need to fillyour own needs.<P>I will be happy to talk to you any time you need it. Just ask. <P>Fred

Oh yeah;<P>My W says I am sometimes too sensitive.<P>And<P>You never have to say you are sorry. I am the one that didn't bother to read the dates and ask first. duh<BR>fb

Your post about "other topics" appeared before your other one re: the degrees of bipolar. Strange, eh?<P>Anyway, there are other options for me to work. But it would mean to move to another state entirely which then my marriage would probably be truly over. <P>You asked how I am feeling emotionally. Well I have my ok days and my not-so-ok days. Sometimes it even goes by hours. This all seems so surreal to me, its almost like we were never married to begin with. At times, I miss him so much (like now) that it aches. Other times, I feel as if I'm an idiot for wanting to save my marriage when he has stated what he wants. Like I said before, he has been incosisent with his feelings and I don't know what to believe anymore. <P>Now, this is going to sound weird but I find that I am continuously haunted by things that remind me of him. Not things like a certain song or stuff like that, but whenever I'm driving around town, I see license plates from TX and IN. Or, I constantly see references to TX or the name Austin all over t.v. Things like that. I'm not particularly superstitous, but I find this strange.<P>Anyway, right now, my options as I see it are to find a job and move to a new city/state, move on with my life and give him what he wants...a divorce. I could also leave the way things are now and stay at my parents (yikes!) and let him call all the shots the way he has been doing it. Or, I can move to TX. That way I would have a job (even if it is only a foot in the door...but I have wanted to work there for years) and we could see what happens by being close to each other. There are downsides to each of these and I need to decide which one I should do.<P>That is all I can think of right now, but if you can see any other options I'm all ears. <P>When I went back to school a few years ago (before I met H), my goal was to get my degree and move to Orlando, and get my foot in the door at Sea World there. I hesitate to move to Orlando right now b/c my close friend is going through a horrible divorce/custody battle there. There's a long story as to why moving there would not be in my best interest right now. If I moved to S.Ant. then I could do what I planned when I went back to school, just in a different place.<P>I don't know. Sometimes I sound so weak, at other times its strong. This is not a fun place to be.<P>Take care, Fred.<BR>Kathy<P>

I'm glad we're talking again....<P>Now, this is going to sound rather harsh, but bear with me...<P>I say, that if you have always dreamed of working at Sea World in San Antonio...then you pack the car and GO GIRL!<BR>You do have to have a career regardless of if you stay married to him or not. By the by, what is he getting his PhD in??<P>Also, I have been married three times, as you willnote from previous posts, twice was to the same woman. Each time it was over (Only twice as I am married presently) I thought that I was some kind of miserable dirt. What ended up happening was that just about the time I really felt like throwing in the towel...some new relationship fell out of the sky on me. Yeah, some were good and some were bad..but it put distance between me and the 'OLD' relationship that hurt.<P>My W likes to say she picked me and that is basically the case. I didn't know she was interested until she kissed me the first time...there are times I wished we had gone slower, but I think I will muddle through...<P>San Antonio is a huge place and you can let him know that you are on your way to Sea World to work and that you will contact him when you get there...then when you get there, you call or send him a note....If he is still wanting this divorce thing, then you still have your career and about 500,000 guys to choose from (SA has a pop of about a million).<P>I also think you need to put your foot down and tell him that you both made a vow, a sacred promise and he is breaking it....he should at least be man enough to TRY to work it out...at least try to find out what is driving him to do this.<P>One more thing...if he really wants out, he is the one that will be missing out onthe best thing to ever happen to him...not you because you already know you are! <P>The cycles of pain and numb are normal...don't let them get you down.<P>You take care too<BR>Fred

Fred,<BR> <BR> I'm glad we're talking again too. Thank you for your very kind words. I have a feeling that deep down, my H also knows that he is losing out on the best thing. <P> I'm think I'm leaning towards S.A. I don't think I will ever be "comfortable" with the decision I make, but I need to make one. <P> And, your right. He did make a committment and I should put my foot down. I'm just not sure if it would do any good. He is very stubborn, especially when he has convinced himself of something.<P> As for his PhD, he is getting it in Molecular Biology. Not a dumb man, in the scholastic sense. He is looking at another 4-5 years in Austin, then 2-3 of post-doc. In the long run it will payoff. He'll be under a great deal of pressure which is another reason I think he should see someone. Oh well, that's another story.<P> I didn't follow on your last post...the W you're married to now, you had married her before? or was it your first 2x?<P> Talk to you soon...<BR> Kathy

The first woman I married some, OMG has it been that long, 13 years ago. I married her 2x. Long story. The one I am married to now is a totally different woman.<P>Now, I want you to go back through your posts.<P>You are in Marine Biology, He is in Molecular....I am going to be stupid here for a minute...but just where are these two going to meet at some point where you can settle down, have chilren and be a family????<P>It appears to me that you have different dreams here...<P>Oh, don't be afraid to put your foot down. He needs to know that you are confident in yourself and even though you still care, your needs will come first.<P>Have you looked at the Plan A and Plan B sites? Plan A is basically a way of trying to work out differences in a civil way. Plan be is the big D and we don't mean Dallas <P>So, am I to understand that you have a for sure job in SA?<P>You really do need to make a decision....just rest on it and make sure it is the right one for you in your heart.<P>Til later<BR>fred

Hi Fred,<BR> <BR> When I met my H, he was working in a lab and could have moved to wherever I got a job. He had talked about going back to school for his PhD, so it would afford us a better way of life. I agreed with him, and thought is was a good thing for him to do. In the meant time, while he was in school, I was going to start teaching and from there we would work on our family. We knew it would be tough, but it's what we agreed on.<P> As for me having a job in SA, no...I do not. Before I went back to school a few years ago, my plan was to graduate and take whatever kind of job they had to get my foot in the door....except cleaning bathrooms <P> I would probably work two job, until I could get in there fulltime, but that's ok.<P> Anyway, I've looked into plan A/B. I'm not sure how to use Plan A, while being so far apart. The only contact we have is by phone and that is tough to do.<P> I know I need to make a decision. I'm afraid though that with all of these "red flags" he's thrown up...that I'm being a fool and setting myself up for greater hurt. Is it even worth it? I really do love him but he has truly hurt me.<P> I'll talk to you soon.<BR> Kathy

Hi Kathy<P>First of all, in the words of the great poet...don't know who said it but somebody did ... There is no risk that is not worth taking! ....<P>You will not know unless you try. As to the plan A...yes, it is hard to try being so far apart. <P>Are you in touch with him regularly? I still havn't heard you tell me why he thinks he has to do this....you say he is inconsistant....is there anyway you can pin him down...<P>Maybe say something to the effect of; Oh, tell him to be quite until you have finished...<P>"You know honey, I married you because I love you and want to make a future with you....now you have been telling me to let you go and find someone else....and you haven't even given me a reason why....You are supposed to be in love with me too and you made a promise to stay with me as my husband until we die....now you want to break it. Fine, I will consider it, but you absolutely have to give me one damn good reason why you feel you have to do this. Not some feeling, or some vague notion that you can't handle it. I know you can handle it or I wouldn't have married you in the first place....so listen buster, you give me a good reason and we will talk....if you don't have a good reason then you need to know that I love you, I will not be a party to this and if you insist on doing it, it will be without my cooperation!"<P>Now that is what I would say.<P>As for your job..doesn't Sea World have a web site you can go to and inquire about job openings? I would think that with the world's focus on the environment and particularly the crisis with the fish populations throughout the world not to mention the die off of coral and the other marine disasters going on...that there shouldn't be some kind of opening for you. Hey, go start looking, get that resume fired up and get started with the rest of your life...don't let dufus ruin it because he can't see past his own bellybutton... <P>Stay in touch too<BR>Fred

Hi Fred,<BR> I'm all for risk taking but this is the biggest one I've ever had to take, and it is a bit scary.<P> My H and I have talked once on the phone since we've separated and sent an e-mail to each other. The phone call was ok, we discussed us, and there wasn't any arguing. We talked for 1 1/2 hours and agreed we'd talk again.<P> I haven't given you a reason for all this because I don't really have one. All he has told me was vague things like "not in love anymore"..."can't be married"..."it's for the best". I don't know if it is depression that is clouding up his mind and has let it take over his rationalization and judgement. But in his mind, I bet, these are very clear reasons and should be good enough. What I mean by inconsistent is that he flip-flopped about what he wanted. Me to go, me to stay, loves me, loves me not, attracted to me, or not...<P> I like what you said about confronting him. I've told him something similar by saying that I'm committed to him and our marriage and will do what it takes to make it work.<BR>Unfortunately, he doesn't need my cooperation to do this. He can file for divorce on his own and go from there. <P> I have gone to the website, and found the job openings. Nothing in what I want to do, but that is ok. I did apply to an entry level job. I've also sent them my resume in case they have something available they don't post. Now, I'm am waiting to hear. However, I wonder if they don't bother to respond to online applications. I haven't even recieved e-mail notification. I should call them and ask whats the best way to do this.<P>I posted on the EN board today, I had heard on TV the nick-name my husband used to call me, and it just cut me. I needed to vent, and it helped. A little. I'm going off to the beach now, I will talk to you soon.<P>Take care, <BR>Kathy

I did go to the beach tonight. I took a walk and it was a very nice night. <P>I have lived in NC for 4 years, on the coast, and I have searched the beaches for sharks teeth. Not once did I find any until tonight. And I found a whole bunch! I know it's not much, but it made my night. I'm going to go back this weekend.<P>Anyway, I called Sea World, they told me the best thing to do was to come in and fill out an application. Not that easy, eh? I guess if I go, it would be under the assumption that I would take any job for the time being. <P>Well, just thought I'd write about something light instead of my dufus husband.<P>Take care,<BR>Kathy