My H has a female friend through work. Over the last 15 months I have noticed through cell phone bills that he has contacted this person at various times in the day. Sometimes as early at 6:30 in the morning and really late into the night. He has lunch with her often and sometime a group of them go to the bar together. I have met this woman on several ocassions and I don't really care for her. She is several years younger than he, has been separated throughout this time and has 3 children close to our childrens age.<P>We have marital problems and it has not been the same since our separation two years ago. This is only one of the many problems we have. (He says he's not in-love with me anymore which doesn't help this situation any)<P>I question him often about the phone calls and his need to return her call should she call him. He has no valid explanation other than he wanted to see what she wanted or what she was doing. I just explained to him why I consider her a threat to our relationship and his vulnerability to meeting her needs and not mine. He does not understand me. I have no respect for this woman since she has established a friendship with a married man (mine). I often express my dislike for her and when he goes out to bars with his co-workers I often ask if she is also going. I know this irritates him but he thinks I'm just being controlling and jealous. Maybe I am jealous, but given the situation that she is in and the struggles we are having in our own marriage, it appears that the two of them may be meeting each others needs. He is definitely not meeting mine. <P>I need to know how I can get through to him to understand that his actions are not in the best interest of our marriage. At least if he would leave his communications with this women to work only, then we would have a better chance at strengthening our marriage. We are at the predicament of separation. This is not the route I want US to take as I am determined to keep this marriage in tact.<P>Any suggestions would be appreciated.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by determined1:<BR><B>Any suggestions would be appreciated.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I think you need to firmly establish that there is an <BR>affair underway. To be blunt, from what you have posted,<BR>it is probably physical.<P>The following is my opinion and my opinion only.<P>Before you can establish any successful plan (A, B, <BR>whatever), you need to establish the affair. Erase<BR>all doubt, THEN bring your determination to the fore.<P>Affairs are like cockroaches - shine a bright flashlight<BR>on them and they run like he**.<P>Bama<P>p.s. I really like your handle - determined1<BR>

I personally believe that all affairs start with talking to another person. Telling them things you should only be telling your partner. Complaining about your marriage, etc. My H had a PA with my best friend. While it was almost 6 years ago, I believed them that it was EA until I found out the truth 2 weeks ago. Even after all that time, I am still devastated.<P>Yes, my H also worked with her. Had plenty of opportunity to be with her. He admits now how wrong it was, a terrible mistake, etc. I think he would agree, don't put yourself into a situation that is likely to develop into something more than a married person should have.<P>I hope he wakes up and sees the dangerous situation he's playing with. Good luck.

OK, here comes my stock opening line:<P>Oy. Another one.<P>Determined, I have been in your shoes, only in my case we have no kids and OW had never been married but had one child. <P>You don't go into detail about what the marital problems are, but it appears they are not resolved.<P>How willing is your H/has he been to work on the marriage? Did you just reconcile, or did you have a plan for improving things? Because if nothing was done to address the problems that drove you apart in the first place, yes, he is susceptible (and so are you).<P>This kind of "emotional affair" doesn't get a whole lot of play here, though it should, because these can be a tough nut to crack. As far as our society is concerned, if there's no sex, there's no affair. You can confront until the cows come home, but your H will not regard this as "cheating on you". He may not even be aware of how dependent on her he has become. Mine wasn't.<P>Your situation is in reality an opportunity for you -- an opportunity to do some soul-searching and try to locate the things you have done wrong, and the things you can do to improve your role in the marriage. All that confrontation will do at this point is paint you as a nag and drive him closer to her. He says you're being controlling and jealous. Obviously, your complaints aren't working.<P>Rule #1 for your situation: YOU CANNOT CONTROL WHAT HE DOES. YOU CAN ONLY CONTROL WHAT YOU DO.<P>You're in a tough spot because your H has already admitted that he's not "in-love" with you anymore (though he does still "love" you or he would have left you for this dame already). Therefore, there are things you can do!! And that fact makes you somewhat more than just a helpless victim in this situation.<P>If your H is a good communicator, you should do the Emotional Needs questionnaire. You may be able to find it on this site, or (and I recommend this anyway) get the book HIS NEEDS, HER NEEDS. Obviously it's better if you do this together. But if he's closed off to you about this, there are things you can do alone.<P>Another book (in addition to HNHN) that helped me a lot was HOW ONE OF YOU CAN BRING BOTH OF YOU TOGETHER, by Susan Page. This book does not deal specifically with affairs, but its premise is simple: Any relationship is a series of actions and reactions. If one party changes his/her actions, the reactions by necessity will have to change. I gave a copy of this book to my then-therapist and now she recommends it to all of her patients.<P>I call this approach "nondisclosure Plan A." This concept has no meaning in the strict interpretations of the MB concepts, but "true" Plan A presupposes that you have proof of a physical affair and you have confronted. I didn't have that, and neither do you. But still, a combination of Plan A and use of the Page book can help you make a fair amount of progress even if your H does not cooperate. Just do it, and he won't know what hit him. You should know him well enough to be able to at least guess what his biggest emotional needs are.<P>If you want additional help with this, post here with an e-mail address (you can get a free web-mail address through hotmail or yahoo or any number of places) and I'd be happy to help off-board, if you like.

Thanks for your post. I got the name of the book and will purchase it immediately. I have read Together Forever and am completing The Surrendered Wife. I am willing to try anything to keep this marriage together. I wish my H would understand and feel how much I love him. It's true what you say about issues not being resolved. We just brush them off as if they are going to go away. It's been two years since our separation and we are still have so many issues which are a barrier between us.<P>What I really don't understand how can someone fall out of love but still love. 85% of the time my H and I are doing great and getting along fine. The sex is good, the little signs of affection are there, we make future plans, we talk about things we want to do to the house, etc. Maybe our biggest problem is focusing on each other...what do you think?<P>I have the summary and the Emotional QNR for us to complete. I've had it for nearly a month now, but we have not made the time to complete it and share with one another. I want to do this alone, maybe over coffee and with no kids around. Hopefully we will get to this soon. We have a busy weekend ahead of us. <P>I would favor any additional information you may have and would answer any questions you have. Thanks for your input and I would like to keep this on the post for now.<P>Determined 1

I agree with what maggierose said. My husband's affair also started with confiding in the other woman about his "horrible life at home." Find out what your husband's emotional needs are, and do your best to meet them. Also, try to work on "self-care" (exercise, hobbies,etc) to make yourself more interesting and fun to be around. I know it's not fair that you have to do all the work to fix the marriage, when he's the one messing up, but it seems that's the way it always is. I'll be praying for you!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by hanginginthere2001:<BR>[<BR>I agree with hanginginthere. AbsoLUTEly...get started on a program ASAP that focuses on *you*. Do things for yourself that appeal to you: exercise, get a new hair-do, join the local Y, if you can, keep yourself well groomed at all times and all the rest. AND..try this! It worked for me:<P>When I became aware of my H's EA (also vigorously denied by H), and once I confronted him with it (proof was a very personal letter from OW to him that he carelessly hid and I found by accident!), all hell broke loose. After weeks and weeks of arguments, screaming sessions, etc., I finally found the MB site. Along with starting Plan A, I did some REAL things for myself. I opened up a charge account in my name only; I opened up a dept. store charge account; I opened up a bank account; joined the local YWCA; joined a women's self help group; and went to a lawyer to find out what my rights are in this state (we moved to another state). When H found out, he stepped back about a hunderd feet or so and "rethought" his situation. Suddenly, the appeal of a fling wasn't so appetizing anymore compared with losing what we had built together. he KNEW I was serious when I said "make a choice."<P>My strategy was to get ready to wing it on my own, just in case the marriage was over. This took him by such surprise that it was almost funny. He had NO idea I could be so strong, and by my actions, he knew how I felt. I was clearly saying, "You have to make a choice: me or HER" and I was ready to stand by my actions, thoughts, and feelings. He developed a whole new respect for me, and today, we are back together, stronger than ever. It took five months of Plan A and lots and lots of prayers, but it worked.<P>One thing I learned form all this is that I truly AM a stronger person than I ever gave myself credit for. Down deep, I knew that I would survive, with or without him. <P>Most importantly, behind it all was this old saying, which is one of my fav's:<BR>"If you truly love something, let it go. If it doesn't come back to you, it was never really yours."<P>Hugs to all and many best wishes,<BR>Winny

THIS LADY FRIEND OF YOUR HUSBAND<P>Yes your instincts are totally correct and he is starting his day with contacting her and ends it too<P>She is "stealing him from you"<P>You must stop it straight away<P>First speak to him and tell him to come home and you are married to him not her<P>She is borrowing him emotionally from you and thinks you do not realize it<P>Listen to your insticts and take him politely back before she pulls him away from him as she has wormed her way into his life and business and emotions and is comfortable with her relationship with him<P>Then phone her and tell her to stop contacting him and leave him alone<P>Tell him you want an agreement with him that he will stop contacting her because he is married to you she must stop pulling at him for attention as you are trying to build a relationship with him and cannot afford this borrowing habit of hers and refuse to lend out your man to keep her company<P>Tell her to find her own man<P>Contact me if I can help<P>You have to firm here but nice to him but blame her to him so he feels blameless otherwise he will go to her again and explain to him what she is busy doing so he can see her from a different angle<P>Guys get led by the ring of the nose most of the time with the woman's sneaky behaviour which she does undercover with nice charm clothing perfume make up etc leading him away from his home and relationship with you<P>It is up to you to take a firm hold as soon as possible<P>Carol<BR>kidnpuppetshow@yahoo.com<P>Relationship counsellor<BR>and Christian<P>Prayer request page<BR>

I am sorry to read this.<BR>You sound like me last year. Now the H says he is not in love with me. We are working on our marriage now.<BR>I thought My H would never have an affair-I WAS Wrong!<BR> <BR> Stop the Female friend ASAP. Please go get Marrige Counciling ASAP. You need to be his only special Female friend. Find out what she does for him and start doing it ASAP. Good Luck!!

All the replies are helpful. I'm another casualty of my H's "BestFriend". Our marriage is virtually over. The posters all had good insight and comments.<P>------------------<BR>Belle, Domestic Goddess

Sorry to hear about your troubles. I hate to say this but you may be in for an emotional rollercoaster ride. My story is the same. H "talking" to OW at work constantly. Definately LOTS of phone calls. At least 1 email & maybe chats on yahoo messenger. Likely some meetings I suspect & cant prove any of this. ANd yes I hate OW.<P>But after talking to your H about this & discussing your feelings once, let it go! Mine adamantly denied doing anything wrong. Tells everyone she is a "professional work colleague". My A**! These women are game players. It turns out this OW has a lousy marriage herself. So her & my H are likely commiserating on how "awful" their lives are. I believe she has brainwashed him. He treated me AWFUL the last 4 or so months. He is still in our house. But these days we dont speak. Seperate beds, meals, driving everything last 3 months. I fear it is over. <P>I had to learn the very hard way to try to let go. It is very hard. But you must. Do NOT phone this other woman! After telling your H you know, leave it alone!! I told mine. It did no good. I even asked her to back off. That the path they were on was how people make mistakes. That the more withdrawn from me he was the more dependant on her he became. Instead she told him everything I said & probably a bunch of lies and DOUBLED HER EFFORTS. She is in his office at work all day every day, and no one says anything to them. I work in the same place, unfortunealty.<P>Also, you cannot meet his needs if he wont let you. He is very confused right now. Try to avoid fights/conflicts over any of this. Dont go out of your way to do anything extra (I tried that & was severely rejected - had things thrown back at me & told me to get the he** away & leave him alone). But dont stop doing what you already have been doing either. Think about things you have wanted to do but put off, & make a plan to do those for yourself. Get out & do things with your own friends or by yourself. Work on yourself is really important. I was sick of hearing that. It has taken me 4-6months to start doing it myself!! I would recommend that you think about visiting a therapist. It takes a few appointments but they are helpful. I had become a basket case of emotions from trying so hard & running into a brick wall every time. I started anti-depressants (effexor) & it really works!! <P>For now, leave the man alone. Dont talk to him unless he talks to you. Do your normal routine without stopping the ordinary things youve already done for him & make plans for yourself. Read the Divorce Busters book by Michelle Weiner-Davis. If all else fails as a last resort, do a 180. Its doing for yourself in a positive way, but things that he doesnt expect. ( I sleep in late on weekends & when I got up early H wondered what I was up to!) I only went to the store but he didnt know that!! I wish you luck! Hang in there. At least talk to one close friend or relative or spiritual leader whom you can trust. And keep posting here. Its a wise bunch who've been in the same situations.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cantletgo:<BR><B>I had to learn the very hard way to try to let go. It is very hard. But you must. Do NOT phone this other woman! After telling your H you know, leave it alone!! I told mine. It did no good. I even asked her to back off. That the path they were on was how people make mistakes. That the more withdrawn from me he was the more dependant on her he became. Instead she told him everything I said & probably a bunch of lies and DOUBLED HER EFFORTS. .</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>HI, Cantletgo:<BR>I am so glad I read your post!!! I have been torturing myself this past year (actually, it's been 9 months but it feels much longer than that) with thoughts of contacting the OW. "Something" inside of me said don't do it--and I chose not to contact her. Now, I am recently wondering if I should contact her and after reading what YOU wrote, I am going to be strong and like you said, "let it go."<P>Yep...knowing her (and I do know her), she would definitely double her efforts! The fact that she and my H commiserated over their "awful" marriages to begin with shows me that she moved in for the kill. You see, we used to live about 200 miles away from her but we relocated here just last year. I am sure nothing was going on at the time of the move, but it started up just afterwards. Why? Because my H was here for 4 months before I had the chance to join him. It was during that time that she made her move. And, he was dumb enough to fall for it. Also, he was very vulnerable at the time, so that made it even easier for her. I've suspected for years that she was attracted to him but I never thought any of this would or could happen. <P>Btw, we moved here because of his job. It never occurred to me that he picked this city bec. SHE was here, but someone asked me about that shortly after my D-day. Honestly, there is no way I can prove or disprove it, but he did take a much higher paying job which we desparately needed. I try not to focus on this little 'detail', and only focus on Plan A'ing. So far, so good, but as he keeps saying to me, "We'll see."<P>Hugs to all,<BR>Winny<P>

Hi Winny. Glad to help! Boy, is it hard to do this!! Every day I wish she'd drop dead!! But I realize this stupid brainwashed H of mine is making his own decisions too. We cant control them! I have not "let go" of desperately wanting my marriage to work out & be reconsiled. <P>I am working hard at "letting go" of trying to convince H that he is making big mistakes that he will regret very much in the future and sacraficing alot; that his behaviour is wrong & I am very hurt & feel very betrayed (even if there has been nothing physical?). I have lost almost all trust in him. He has lots of mood swings. I am trying to retain my last ounce of self respect & tell myself she's not worth the agony I am going thru. That even if things progressed between them that its their own loss because with all the mental baggage they both have it would never work out. But I pray it never comes to that. That my H wakes up & smells the real roses (ME) before then. <P>They travel for work purposes & I have come to think that they may have scheduled trips (out of town) to arrive in the same town/hotel at night. There have been at least 3 times this happened but I was not aware at the time. I will never know if they met up with eachother or it was just nasty coincidence! He used to always phone in the good old days but not these last 4-6 months since SHE has been at issue. I think OW & her H are in the midst of getting divorced!! (She has a 3yr old boy, the fool). I think he mustve filed papers! She is counting down 60 days (waiting period?) and one of the 2 of them is moving into an apartment!! This makes me nervous. I hope my H has not and will not initiate anything physical with her. This is my biggest fear. If for no other reason - diseases. He & I have not had any other partners that way except each other. I still havent. Im in it deep. I must have SOME patience! I dont know how those who know for sure about the affairs being a PA can forgive! I am afraid I couldnt. But I want my marriage back!!<P>You are lucky in that you at least are getting a "we'll see". Stay cool! Avoid conflict but try to maintain awareness for what could be happening. But dont second guess like I do. I drive myself nuts doing that!! My H has not shown me any sign that he wants to work on our marriage at all, except he has not moved out. I hope I can still say that, after the OW becomes a "free woman". Hopefully once she is cut off from her H (earns the $) she'll drop interest in my H like a hot potato & go find herself some sugardaddy! Ha Ha! Wish me luck! (My old posts are buried in the Divorcing/Divorced category. But I was an emotional basket case & deleted alot of references to OW in case they found me on here.). Wish me luck & best wishes for you and the other BS's in this thread.