Hi I'm new to this forum and I'm glad I found it. To give you a little background on what is going I hope I don't take an entire page.<P>Husband and I will be married 5 years next month - no children - we are both 30.<P>My husband left me a month ago today. We got into an argument and he packed up and left. We started counseling this past week and I found out things I didn't know because we never had communication in our marriage where we would sit down and talk about things. He said that I caused stress and that is why he left. We argued alot about different things but I didn't know or notice I was causing him stress. He told our therapist that he doesn't know if he wants to come back or not because he likes his freedom right now. I've asked him many times if he wanted a divorce and he has said no but if he doesn't know if he wants to come back or not - what does that say? That he is afraid to admit he wants one or truely doesn't know? I'm the one who is sick every day because I don't know if I'm going to have a husband anymore or a marriage. All that I ask of him is to give me a chance to prove that I can be a better person and wife since our arguments caused stress. I don't know what to do or what to think - Help!!!

Ela, <BR>Unfortunately I don't have much counseling exp but I'm in the same boat, I'm the H with the withdrawaling spouse(she wants a divorce). I think my relationship is ending with my wife of 4 yrs, together for 7 yrs. It seems as if our spouses want to move on and find something better doesn't it? It seems as if we both love the heck out of our spouses, why don't they love us back...are they scared from looking back at the past or into our future? I went to counseling and seem to be benefiting from it, though I went with the expectations of repairing my marriage and this is not happening.<P>As you mentioned you argue a bit, we're all human and things tend to bother each person in their own ways...somehow we have to convince ourselves then our partners of how much we can expand and be more patient and loving to each other...after all love is patience.<P>Hang in there, I'm an emotional wreck and I bet you are also. You can pretty much open up on this board...just don't use you real name, remain anonymous ..see my posts in "wife not in love with me anymore," read what counsel winny provided. It may help.<P>G<BR>

Goin - thanks for responding. I did go and read your other posts. I'm sorry for the way things are going for you right now. Believe me, I feel pain 24/7 because I feel like I'm on pins and needles because the husband doesn't know what he wants. How can anyone just give up on a marriage and a person without giving that person another chance to prove themselves (my situation). We've had problems in the past but it never resorted to a separation. I don't know what to do to make him see that things can and will be better. Right now all he doesn't is go out with friends. We spend no time together except when we went to counseling. I don't want to give up but I do.

Ela-Winnytoo,<BR>Here is a response from my wife regarding my relationship.<BR>I empathize completely with you Ela...Do we continue to try or just give in/up? My wife is done and I can't except it. We have so much together, we can do so much together she just envisions discontent in her future. I don't like the thought of her being unfaithful, but too many clues lead me to believe so...this really hurts. <P>"Should I even get into this e-mail while you're at work or not? I haven't only talked to people who were divorced or in my situation. I've talked to several other people too who have never dreamed of being in this situation. I never said you always put other things first but you have more than not and that is true. I'm not in a rut, I'm over<BR>being in a rut and I'm not running away from anything or dulling the pain. I don't have any pain anymore. I can look at moving on to other things and so should you. You have a lot ahead of you also."<P><BR>Stay strong, it sounds as if you're not as "over" as my wife and I are. <P>GFB<P>

Goin - do you think there is someone else is your wife's life? do you think she is talking to friends or family who are influencing her? I'm just curious because I can't see how someone can just up and move on, but I know it happens.<P>My husband came over the house today to pick up his money. When I say pick up his money its because I have full access to our banking, he left with nothing but his clothes and his checks are direct deposited. I know, he can stop those direct deposits and I'm well prepared if he does. When we went to counseling the first time this past week the therapist suggested that we get together and do something and not discuss the problems we are having, just to go out and have a good time (easier said than done). So when he came over today he said he would be over on Tuesday and we would go and do something. He said we were going to spend more time together unlike how it is now. I told him that I gave him a chance in the past when he pleaded with me not to leave and I did, I told him all that I ask is that he give me chance to prove myself. He said that is why we are going to counseling so we can work things out. Right now, I don't know what to think because with him its something different every day. All I can do is pray to God that we work things out and he comes back.<P>I'm sending you a cyberhug ((((Goin)))) because I know how we both feel right now.

Hi,<P>Just caught your thread and wanted to respond. I too am not one to give advice. Story: separated 3 months, married 9 months. H loved but not "in-love" with me. Or H couldn't handle being married. Or h wasn't attracted to me. Or H thought I deserved better. Who knows...he just kept contradicting himself. <P>The important thing is for you to take care of yourselves. Show your spouse the person they would want to be married too. Do 180 turn-arounds on them. Something that they will never expect. Stay positive, attractive and fun. Try and figure out their EN's and keep meeting them. <P>I've learned that whatever you do, DON'T pursue. DON'T beg, cry or plead. Don't LB. It will only push them away. Read everything on this website and others. As well as the books.<P>Although it is difficult to practice these things. As for me, my H is 2000 miles away so I have great difficulty doing anything right now. But it is a common theme and seems to work for some. <P>Stay strong and good luck,<BR>Keep posting.<BR>Kathy

Ela, <BR>Unfortunately I do think opinions are influencing her along with someone else of the opposite sex. It's tough not trusting your spouse, along with not knowing or shall I say convincing yourself she has an eye for someone else. My mind is very cluttered with wonders, disillusion and distrust. I have a feeling I know the OM also...and i'm at the point of confronting him. Somehow I've maintained my composure and kept myself in check. <P>Direct deposit huh, he can't stop his side of the paycheck legally, he still has to support a family. You know what I did for my wife (too bad I love busted though), I made reservations at a nice restaurant, had fresh picked flowers and a candle set for us...we had a big fight and I had to cancel...shoooot! Find a pottery place and the two of you can express ideas, maybe not even speak while creating something from you mind/heart...kind of say it through creation???A thought huh?<P>Wrapping a hug right back around you...since my wife and I began our issue, I haven't had someone hug who really meant it...do you know what I mean??<BR>((((((((((((((((Ela))))))))))))))))))))))))<BR>(((((((((((((((Winnytoo))))))))))))))))))))You need one also!<BR>Have a good evening.<P>GFB

Kathy, <BR>I've tried to remain positive...it seems to give my wife comfort, like I'm accepting her desire to divorce. I'll attempt it again beginning tomorrow.<P>We're heading to an attorney's office on Monday for a settlement agreement...All I see is our relationship in a severe downward spiral.<P>Thanks for the inspiration though!<P>GFB

Goin - that's your choice if you want to confront the OM but in my opinion I think that would just make things worse than they already are. <P>I have a family member whose wife was cheating on him, she met someone on the internet who lived probably 10 minutes away from her. Well, instead of hiring a PI, another family member found out who the OM was on the internet. Well, they basically trapped him admitting that he was with her and they even followed them and took pictures. One day the family member went to this guy's wife and took an envelope full of materials (pictures, emails and printed instant messages) and handed it to her. Needless to say, the OM is divorced now and the family member's wife had no clue what so ever that her husband was the one who actually did all of this.<P>Another thing, don't confront this OM unless you are 100% sure something is going on, get proof.

Hey Ela & Fishlady,<BR>As far as doing 180's, staying positive, find out what her emotional needs are....I don't quite know what to do?? For me to do 180's it would entail not turning the porch light on if she comes home late...not doing the cleaning or laundry on my down time so i can spend more time with her, etc...staying positive, I just came off a 24 hour shift, busy as hell, she didn't even ask me how my day went, I think she just returned her wedding ring to her mother(famiy heirloom), monday we're speaking to an attorney <BR>regarding a settlement agreement's far as emotional needs are concerned, she becomes like a turtle when I approach her. Though my gut tells me she isn't like this with the presumed OM. She just took a sabbatical for "us" and stayed in a hotel room...well, I saw she took her lingerie robe with her, and when I spied on her I noticed the truck seat reclined...the only person who sits in our truck with the <BR>seat reclined is the OM(for some reason I've been collecting clues for a while and notice the oddest stuff). <P>Like I told Winny, I'm no slouch couch potato and can not comprehend why she won't lust for me, I found an e-mail that said I disgust her. exact wording "He really is a good person and tries the best that he knows how. but it's not enough for me. Emotionally nor mentally and for the past few months physically." My conversation is interesting, I just don't understand. I'm still debating on whether or not to ask her why she took her skimpy robe to a hotel room, or would you consider this a love buster. As far as not pursuing, begging, crying or pleading, I'm trying and it's freaking hard, LOL. Maybe I'll go to church this morning.<P>How ya doin' Ela? Hanging in there I hope. I was told the absolute worst thing spouses in our predicament could do is make acquaintance or confine with the opposite sex, but I find women so much more logical and since I'm attempting to figure my "woman" out, I need to ask other women?? <BR>Who knows??? I just had to laugh, you're in PA also, where at?..I think this state just screws up relatinships...You, Winny and myself all reside in PA. (Winny is on the rebound! Hi Winn.)<P>I'm on the see-saw of confrontation, I have applications in for a couple of police depts., getting into a scuffle with the presumed OM wouldn't look good...but ohh I can taste it. I have to go to church, get this though out of my mind. <P>Have a great day. I have an old quote i used to push me though my military career, "If you settle for what they give you, you deserve what you get!" And find the poem titled "Success," it may apply to us.

Hi Goin - I really don't know what to say about your wife. Seems like she thinks the grass will be greener on the other side. And if there is another man in her life, why can't she just up and tell you instead of playing games with you. I hate game playing like that, especially the mind games. <P>My parents have partially stayed out of my business as to what is going on with my marriage right now. Except for my mom saying that I'd probably be better off without him and to get a divorce. But my parents have been married over 30 years and they never experienced something like this. I don't want to give up on my marriage knowing that it can be worked out. I think my problems are minimal. Husband lies, I flip out about him lying to me and we argue. He says that our arguing caused him stress so he left. Ok, if that's the case then give me a chance to prove that I can be a better person and wife and learn to argue the "right way" LOL. It's just very hard to deal with day by day blows not knowing if my husband is coming back or if I'm going to be divorced in a few months. I will give him credit because he agreed to go to counseling, I just hope that all of this counseling is going to pay off in the end to bring us back together.<P>By the way ((Goin)), I'm from the Pittsburgh area.<BR>Keep your chin up

Hi, Ela (and hi, GFB!)<BR>LOL! I was going down the list of posts this evening and happened to read this one. To my delight, I see a 'familiar face' among the posts! Hi, GFB!! You're doing ok, hon. Just hang in there and like Ela says, BE GOOD TO YOURSELF (now, where have you heard THAT before?! )<P>Ela, my H and I were in the same spot as you are right now, and to be honest with you, although we are really communicating again and finding out things about one another we never knew before (much like as in your case), things are still not back to normal. They're better, but not quite where I'd like them to be. Five months ago, he was going to "leave me" ever other day or so, but he never did. Also, he tossed around words like divorce, temporary separation, incompatibility, and he expressed a desire to be "free" again, and have no responsibilites for anyone but himself. Nice, eh, after 13 years of marriage and a lifetime of love and devotion??! NOT!<P>You need to do two things, Ela: Do Plan A and then be real patient. One other thing: You didn't say whether or not you think your H has someone else, and without any more info from you on it, I wouldn't know what to say. However, if you haven't read Dr. Harley's excellent article on "Signs of a Cheating Spouse" (I can't recall the exact title), then I urge you--and you too, GFB--to do that right now. When the person we love suddenly does such a complete turn-around and withdraws from us so completely, the reason is usually another love interest going on. Believe me, I had to learn this the very hard way! One thing the 3 of us have in common is that we all love our spouses very much. Another thing is that our spouses have pulled away from us for no apparent reason, although the things they say seem to have little basis in reality. <P>Here is an example of what I mean by that: for years and years, since I've known him, actually, my H has always put his work first. I have told him time and again that I don't like it when he does that. Often, he'd put his friends before us and our needs, too, and I also let him know I how I felt about that. So, this is a truth, a constant, and he KNEW how I felt. Now, one day he hits me out of the blue with "You are so inconsiderate of my feelings." HUH??! When, in the 17 years we've been together has he EVER said that or anything like that?? Answer: he hasn't. Truth?? NO. It was a justification on his part to explain something he did that he knows was wrong. He had about 25 more "complaints" like this and all of them were sudden, out-of-the-blue, no real basis in reality kind of remarks. The TRUTH was that I found out by accident that he was having an A with a mutual friend (???) of ours. How deep it went, I really can't say, but I DO know that there was an attachment between the two of them.<P>So, Ela....read, read and READ Dr. H's articles, and start with the one on infidelity. Perhaps you are one of the forutnate ones whose spouse is just in some kind of identity crisis. No matter what, you need to start Plan A as soon as possible. Trust me--it really can work wonders if you give it a good try.<P>Hope to hear back from you soon!<P>Hugs and prayers,<BR>Winny <P><p>[This message has been edited by Winnytoo (edited August 26, 2001).]

Is there something in the water here in PA??! I live in PA, too, in good old Philly! <P>I'm drinking bottled water from now on! <wink!><P>Hugs..<BR>W<BR>

Winny - as far as I know, there is no one else in my husband's life. When we went to counseling he said he likes his freedom. He doesn't have to answer to anyone, and can do what he wants. I never stopped him before from doing anything. I just didn't like his friends that he had before all of this. When I mentioned the "freedom" part of it all he said the therapist wanted to know as of right now why he didn't want to come back. He said all of that can change. The only thing I can do right now is give him his space. Maybe he will realize that the grass isn't greener on the other side. I have been reading book after book and I know that I'm not perfect either and my problem was starting agruements. Why? because I couldn't trust him. Before I even start working on "us", I need to know myself. He claims I caused stress in this marriage. I'm sure I did cause stress but I didn't see it because I was stressed too. My husband and I both have faults. No marriage is perfect. But in order for us both to work this out, we need to work on ourselves. I'm just surprised that he wanted to go to counseling because he said he would never resort to that. I was even surprised that he listened to the counselor who said we needed to get together and do something that didn't focus on our problems that we are having. <P>I'm really glad that I found this board because you guys are really helping me through my hard times.