I am trying to save a marriage that I am not sure is saveable(<is that a word?.Anyways my H and I seem to come from two totally different backgrounds and his logic seems to confound me. I hate to say it but it seems at time that my 17 has more reasoning skills then he does. I am not sure how to talk to him, so that he understands what my emotional needs are. When I do tell him with out any "sugar coating" which is his words. The reply from him is not what I expect. It is usually something like. WELL I could understand it if........... but he never seems to understand where I am coming from. He also has a very abusive mouth when we do aruge. I think I have given him this weapon to use. Because when he resorts to name calling, I tell him, fine this discussion is over, let me know when you want to talk about it without the name calling. So I let him off the hook, nothing is resolved and he won't bring it up again, because he doesn't want to talk about it. I sent him the link for this site, but he refuses to come here. Says it won't help....Yet he had said he would go to marriage counseling but it costs to much.**sigh** I am at my wits end. Oh I should probably tell you that my H is 20 years younger then I am. And I am beginning to think he married me for the "unconditional" love that he got from his mother, and doesn't realize that with a marriage you have to put more work into it.<BR>Help

Katdoll,<P>First of all thank you for your reply to my message. <BR>Just wondering if we are not married to the same man? Ha Ha! Well, it's hard for me to give you any advice because the truth is my husband never listens or wants to talk either. Although, Sometimes I can get him to apply a little effort when I totally promise him that i won't judge him or yell at him for what he says. The problem is my tounge starts bleeding from how hard I have to bite it the entire time he is talking to me! But it is usually during those discussions that I can hear his honesty. Which I must admit is pretty rare these days. Even though it isn't what I always want to hear I am glad to hear the truth.<P>I wish you luck Kat, Hope things go well for you.<P>Hope to hear from you soon with good news.<P>Jenni

I am nto the best to respond, I have lots of my own problems, you really should try to go to counseling. If it costs to muc, there is ALWAYS a WAY. I did not think there was a way for my husband and I, but I went to my priest, told him everything, and now we are going, and the priest is helping. God works in mysterious ways, he helps, if we only ask. Try going to a pastor/priest to talk to about your marriage problems. Have you ever heard of retrouville? Its catholic based, but any denomination can go, its a weekend where its like a conference for marriage, a priest and a few couples help you- its for troubled marriages, and then after the weekend post 6-8 Saturdays. Its supposed to be realy good. My hubsand and I going next weekend... I will pray for you.<BR>sweeteeyore

Thank you both for your replys. As for any counciling through a church. My H's attitude is that he is His God that if he needs something done he has to do it himself that there is no God. So I doubt I could even approach him with that. Have one couple try and do some intervention and have us write down 10 things that we dont' like about the other. We had 10 minutes to do this. Then to write any number of things that we loved or liked about each other.<P>We didn't show each other the lists, We were suppose to use them as a place to work on compromise. Well H had several things on his Don't like list and nothing on his love/like list. <P>I have tried the biting my tongue, as a matter of fact that is why I am up tonight. I heard him tell a friend on the phone "well I have no female friends" and when I said I thought I was your friend..His reply was NO we fight to much all you are is my wife. So now I am stewing over the fact of "how can he make love to me" if we aren't friends. How can we be lovers if we fight to much..Yet he still seems to want the sex aspect from me.<P>Sorry I am rambling.<P>Kat

I don't know if I am the best person to respond to this either but here goes. Your husband just wants his mommy to be near. You do indeed come from two different backgrounds.<P>If he can fight and degrade you to his friends, yet still wants to go to bed with you for sex, then that is all he wants...is sex.<P>He is even more immature than I am. My wife is only 8 years older than I and you can see the differences. She is in her late 40's and I am almost 40. She is past that time in her life where sex and making kids is important. Now it is companionship and friendship...don't get me wrong, she still loves to go for the big O once in a while, but on a scale of one to ten, it rates about a 2.5.<P>Your husband must make a choice whether he wants you for you, or just wants you for a nice warm body. Now, let me also ask a pointed question, Why did you marry him?<P>In my case, my wife is a woman that does not want to be alone. She talks about how she went for over 20 years without being married, but as she talks and the more I have come to know her, she has never been 'alone' for very long. She has to have a man in her life to be with, to feel needed by.<P>I see two people here who both need to sit down and take a good long look at just why they are in the relaitonship. I can already tell you that your husband is probably missing out on the best thing that ever happened to him in his life because he is so strung out on his hormones that he doesn't know what to do. <P>You eluded to the fact you have a 17 year old child....At least that is what I got, is you Husband that much older? If not, then the immaturity is even worse....men don't 'mature' until almost 30 and in some cases farther after that.<P>I am sorry that you have gotten into this big mess. I hope that you will not lose too much sleep when it falls apart and that you will have the strength to let this idiot go and find yourself someone who wants you because of YOU and not because of some physical attraction.<P>If I sound harsh...I apologize, I see too many on these forums who try to sugar coat things and I am getting more and more to the point of just letting it all hang out.<P>I wish you all the best.<P>[This message has been edited by freddyb (edited October 04, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by freddyb (edited October 04, 2001).]

Fred,<BR>I am not offended by your frankness, as a matter of fact gave me a giggle. I am really having some issues with sharing all of the "interesting" facts of my marriage. Maybe because I know that the truth will come at me fast and furious. And I think that the general opinion would be make my H go away.<P>As to why I married him, I think to be honest, at that time I was looking for some financial security. My son that is now 20 suffered a cardia arrest he was 3 weeks shy of his 16th birthday. At that point in my life (when the cardiac arrest took place) I was going to school full time and working part time for a susidiary for IBM. My life seemed to be heading in a very positive direction.<P>When my son had his arrest, he was in a coma for 3 weeks, the doctors seriously discussed with me, pulling the plug, my sons Father came to see his son (son was air lifted to a hospital 2 hours from home) was there for 2 days and said...well I have to go to back to work. When Tony came out of his coma.....he was at infancy, he had lost all abilities....and we (Tony and myself) have been working since August 1997 to bring him back as far as we can. Of course that required that I quit school and work to take care of him. During his recovery process I have lost my mother, my sister and my best friend to cancer. The life that I thought was going oh so well....fell in a hole that I have sometimes felt I wasn't going to climb out of...<P>So when pretty much out of nowhere this young man...(my husband)told me that he loved me and he wanted to take care of us.....It really seemed like a wonderful idea.<P>He had been in a very bad marriage before me and complained bitterly about his ex and her cheating....To the point that she ended up with AIDS while they were still married. (more on that later)(have to build my courage up to go that deep into my marriage)<P>He said he didnt' want the games that younger women play that he wanted a woman that could be manogomus(<sp) and didnt' have the need to run to the bar all the time...Well again this sounded like the perfect family man to me...and I do love him...(duhhhhh me huh)but I am 50 years old, he is 30...and i really am beginning to veiw him as 13..which of course doesn't help things. Because I know I am sometimes talking to him like he was one of my kids and not my husband.<P>Input please?<P>KatDoll

First of all, you are not duh for getting involved with this man. It is just evident that you have two sets of expectations. I often wonder myself what the hell I married my wife for. When we started together, she was beautiful, vivacious, desireable and extremely sexy. I could also have an intelligent conversation with her. Now, that she has gone through menopause, she is still all of the above except now I am really tired of hearing her talk about how her tummy is getting too big, how her clothes don't fit and how every musclein her body aches.<P>As for the stuff he went through, I went through hell in my previous marriages that has really affected this one. The part about the AIDS, there is nothing you have to be afraid of to tell, either she gave it to him or not. The only consequences to that I can see that affect you are if you now have it or if she is now getting the full blown variety and there are little kids involved who may come to live with you.<P>As I read your last post, I am just going DAMN, look at this woman and everything that she has been through. You don't need to be castigated, you need to be given a medal. Who would have done what you did? I take it your son has made remarkable progress and is doing well? Sounds to me that now you are at the point where you are at the brink of the hole, looking at the blue sky and you are afraid to pull yourself out for fear the wind may blow you away.<P>DON"T BE AFRAID TO CLIMB OUT ON YOUR OWN! Your husband, does he still live with you now. Is he home at night with you? I can't believe this man is such a fool, but alas, that is what we are mostly, fools and macho egotistical *******s.<P>As I have said to others on this website, YOU HAVE DONE NOTHING WRONG! YOU ARE NOT TO BLAME FOR YOUR HUSBANDS POOR CHOICE!<P>I am still working through my own issues, but I hate to see other people in what amounts to such wrong situations. See my conversations with the Fishlady in 'Any Suggestions' She is in pretty much the same predicament you are, except her hubby left.<P>Yes, you can love your husband, but why love a man who is so hell bent to degrade you and only want to use you for one thing?<P>Sorry, now I am rambling.<BR>Let me know know if you want more input.

TRYING AGAIN. Maybe going to post twice Who Knows<BR>Fred, <BR>And anyone else that cares to reply.<BR>I guess you need the whole story to understand the under currants in my marriage.<P>My husband is a bi-sexual man: his ex-wife is a bisexual female<BR>One of the thing she liked to do in the marriage was to go out and sleep (unprotected) with another man then come home and have him perform oral sex on her.<P>Now he understood that I was not interested in any type of bi relationship and that if we were going to be together it had to be a monogamous heterosexual marriage.<P>Now he is asking me to go do that. Go out to the bar and pick up a man...go to a hotel room and do whatever...then bring it back to him..He also wants details if I do this.<P>I am ashamed to admit that to please him I did do this one evening. When I got home all I could do is cry. I felt so dirty and I know that I have had issues with this because in my mind I cheated. He has never thrown it in my face. I still feel that way.<P>Now he is saying that he would like to have a threesome. He wants it both ways though. He wants to find a woman to bring in our bed. He also wants to find a man to bring in our bed. I feel I am being pressured to be something I am not. It hurts me beyond belief that he keeps talking about this because he knows that there is no way that I want to be sexual with another woman. And after my last encounter with the other man thing I don't think I can do that either.<P>I too have been through menopause and have felt my sex drive decline. But I am not sure if it is because of what is requested of me, or if it has really declined.<P>He says that he thinks it is fine if I go get a b/f he would like that a lot it excites him, when I ask him why that wouldn't be cheating he says because it is something that is mutually decided on.And that if he ever feels the need to have another woman or man, that he will pay me the same curtsy by telling me before he does it. But I keep coming back to the fact that he said he wanted a monogamous relationship, and he says..well it is after all we are committed to each other the other people are just extras.<P>More later on his family (mom and her ideas)<P>Kat

Whoa-up here!<P>First of all, sexual orientation is not the issue here. The issue is you, wanting to be married to this man and having him to yourself. If you don't want to participate in this stuff and you were not aware of it when you got married and you had an understanding that regardless, you were going to have an exclusive relationship, then he is still messed up, you are not.<P>Fred

Fred,<BR>Glad to hear from you and glad to see you made it through this last week of beating against the monitor at MB's and sayin LET ME IN.<P>I did spend the last week trying to figure out what I am doing wrong in the marriage. I know that I am having a hard time letting specific issues go. Things that he feels are resolved and I feel that my emotions were never validated.<P>This of course makes it so there is always some tension in the house. I also caught myself, just when he was starting to warm up to me again, being angry with him and expressing it. If not verbally then with body language, grunts and short answers. Till he finally asked me what was wrong. I realize that this is not the way to communicate and have tried to get him to this site so we can go over the forms. <P>When I asked him this AM, why he didn't follow the links that I e-mailed him, his reply was "well that isn't really a site on the net that I am in a big hurry to go off and investigate"<P>So I guess right now I am at a crossroads as to working towards some type of Honest communication or Plan B.<P>I do know that when he seperated with his first wife, to take a break and work things out, that is when he started his cheating on her. When we try and discuss that he calls it an **accident** and he refuses to see it as a choice that he made....It was just an accident. So I have concerns that if we do seperate, he will have more "Drive by <BR>F@%kings** and the fact that he is bi-sexual I have no guarentees that even if he is hanging out with the guys...that he is being faithful.<P>I am sure no one has any answers for me and maybe I am just rambling looking to see where I hid my backbone at when I got married. Seems I put it in a closet somewhere and now cant' find it.<P>Kat

Nice to be back. Now on to your posts.<BR>You have to take care of your needs first. You are correct in assuming that you cannot trust your H. You DON"T know if he is cheating on you. As he himself said, he is used to drive by F.....G's I don't understant that at all. If you marry someone, you want to be with them and no one else.<P>YOU NEED TO DECIDE WHERE YOU WANT TO BE! WHERE YOU WANT TO GO!<P>I wish I had the answers. I myself am going through some interesting times right now. But I am willing to talk.<P>Take Care<BR>Fred

Fred,<P>Thank you so much for your responses. Now enough about me for awhile, what is going on with you? <P>I have seen that you help a lot of people on here, and would love to help you if I can.<P>Obviously, my marriage is messed up but sometimes we can see some solutions in anothers marriage where we can't see any in our own.<P>If you want to talk....would love to listen. Or read as the case is here. <P>Kat

Thanks for wanting to help. In my case, I have been married three times and each one (except this one) has failed because of several factors. It boils down to my wanting sex too much. I like sex. I like the touching and intimacy and feeling the person next to me...wanting to please them and be pleased. I don't think there is a way two people can get closer. But it has gotten in the way.<P>I have four kids who live with their mother in aother town. I am a professional teacher. Right now, we are in the process of trying to extricate ourselves from a very bad situation that we ahve gotten ito and return to a job that we had before (My wife and I). Our salary will jump a little over 20K per year and I think that for our peace of mind, we will be better off.<P>As I have eluded to, my wife is 8 years older than I. She is absolutely beautiful and she has four older children. Her youngest is her daugheter that lives with us. She is a PAIN IN THE ***. The child is spoiled past rotten and she acts like a two year old. She is 11. Needless to say this puts a strain on our relationship.<P>Anyway, I will be off the net for about ten days or so as we move. So please don't think I have left. I will check in as soon as I can.<P>In the mean time, you keep your head up. YOU ARE NOT TO BLAME FOR THE CHOICES OF YOUR HUSBAND. If you are not comfortable with his life choices and you believe he may be cheating on you, then call him on it and see where it goes. I would much rather be chatting with you, a live person, than to have you tell me he has given you some nasty social thing. You can find other love. You are not tied with a chain to this man. Don't be fooled into that.<P>I will be talking with you on the other side of this move.<P>Take care<BR>Fred

Fred,<P>I moved the topic to two different areas at the advice of **anna** to see if I could get some more input especially while you are in the process of moving.<P>I moved the thread to DD and EN.<P>Catch up with you there or when you get settled we can continue to talk here.<P>-Kat- [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]