We have been married for almost 9 years. We have two wonderfull children. A few days ago my wife told me that she wants to seperate. That she needs to explore who she is and that she still loves me but that it is not the same somehow. That the passion seems gone. She wants to write for film and work on herself. Since our son was born 8 years ago, all i have done is worked to provide for our base, our familiy. I don't go out, I don't drink and we are not abusive to each other. I am not saying we didn't have our arguments or vent, but we always worked things out. Yes i worked long hours, but in my mind it was always driven by the idea of providing a good life for my family. I am lucky in that I was also working in my area of interest so my career flurished. Things would get tense from time to time, if i was having to spend long hours for a particular project, but we always got through it. Melissa stayed home with our son for 6 years and worked on her writing. I know now that I got stuck in a behavior pattern that was slowly depleating her love bank. I care for her so deeply. My response to this of course was conflict, i tried every possible angle, I tried to get through. She would not budge, she feels it is like a revelation and that she must be true to her self. She openly admits that she still loves me, but again that at some point it changed and that she is sorry. We of course fought, I lashed back when she hurt me and did exactly the wrong things as i know now. A day or so after she went to a friends house ( a divorced female friend) and even though i tried everything to find a solution, one hour at her friends and she came back ready to negotiate. To set new guidelines for the relationship. <p>I was so relieved, my stomach had been in knots through this whole thing and I felt so drained. So leading into the weekend we set new rules and i thought we were on our way back up.<p>Of course I still didn't understand her stance, how her love could of changed and was very very sensitive to her behavior towards me. All i wanted was to be together through the weekend and work on our relationship. Unfortunately all she wanted was time to work on her writing and spend time in the writers chat forum.. This hurt me. The weekend went by and we didn't really spend any quality time together. By sunday night, my taker was gearing up, i was getting hurt left and right by her lack of interest in me. I blew up and started an argument. I know now how stupid this was of me, that she had quickly moved from withdrawl to conflict and we had started to negotiate. Our argument pushed her back into withdrawl and ended with her wanting seperation again. I would see her looking at a web page for Divorce Conceling for children and just reel in pain. To her there was no middle, no work to be done, yet she still looks me in the eye and tells me she loves me. <p>I was crushed. Again I try everything i can think of to say and we end up saying hurtfull things. So yesterday I come into work. Hurting so bad i could barely think straight. All i could do was walk around the office. I needed some answers, I needed something that I could do. I needed someone to talk to quick. I tried the web and somehow quickly found This site. This site is so amazing! I thank everyone who worked to put this site together and I deeply thank Dr. Harley.<p>Finally some answers, oh the relief it was to find out that it is normal for love to change and that it does. And most important to me that it can be re-grown. I know so much more now. I know what needs to be done. Her love bank account for me had dipped and with her new found outlet in writing ( she recently recieved very positive support and mentoring from some seriously successfull publisher and writiers ) It is easier for her to write us off so she can remain focused on her self and her career. So i read the articles several times yesterday, feeling hope and understanding of our situation. Oh how badly i wanted to share these articles with her. For her to see that Romatic love in a releationship can change and can be restored permanatly. I also realized that my love for her also had it's up's and downs over the years (although I never told her, i looked at it as phases and pushed through) I am so ready to work as hard as i ever did on providing to re-build our marriage and love for each other to a state of bliss... I know we can do it. But i don't think she will be open to anything i suggest right now. Here was my plan for yesterday. Come home, be happy and plesant, tell her that I do want her to be happy and that i am here to help her if she needs anything at all. And no matter what do not argue or fight. Be ready to negotate and be thoughtfull. Don't be the other side to an argument. Let her do her own thing for awhile, let her come around.<p>So, i did, i got home early from work. I smiled and was energetic. When she came into the kitchen she asked me what was up, how my day was. I asked the same of hers. I told her that I had learned a lot today, that I was sorry for hurting her last night, deeply regret it and will do everything in my power not to ever do it again( our argument ) and that I do want her to be happy. That i am here if she needs anything. That i am willing to give her time and just help. She seemed to accept that with a smile. So yeah i did it, i made the first step with the confidence that it was the right thing and that it was a small positive step in the right direction ( maybe even a small deposit [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] I feel i also diffused a situation that probably would of ended in sepration if I had not found this site. I too was considering entering withdrawl before i learned what was going on. So last night after our discussion she went back to her writing chat groups and discussion boards and I took to taking care of the children and cooking dinner, etc.. It was very hard to maintain a positive, light attitude, i tell ya. With her giggling and smiling with her chat group and headphones on. And not giving me the time of day really. So three hours later, I had gotten the kids in and out of the bath, fed them, read books to them and had em in bed. She was still in the same spot, glued to the computer. I of course dying to talk to her, dying to work on things, spend time together. It was really hurting and I almost lost it, almost started an argument just to get her time. I stopped my self, said good night and went to bed. She also came to bed later. And that is where i am at. She was chipper and happy today as i was getting ready for work and she was getting ready to take kids to school and run some errands.<p>Ok, soooo after all ( and that was a brief version belive me ) What do i do? I feel like if i keep coming home early, keep doing everything around the house and yet getting no attention from her that I won't be able to keep up the positive, supporting attitude. All i want to do is share what i have learned with her, for her to know that her feelings changing are normal, not destiny, not static and fixed. That I know a way and want so badly for us to pursue it. That she can have more freedom to work on her career but that we can have a rewarding marriage and be deeply in love again.<p>How do i present this to her, or do I? Should i not come home tonight, should i go out and let her be. Let her look up from her work at 9pm and realize that I'm not there? Do i send her a million rozes ( like i feel like doing )...arg or do i keep doing what i did last night. Keep coming home early, taking care of all the needs of the children, the house and stay happy and positive towards her bahavior and go to bed with nothing from her? She went from withdrawl to conflict (negotation) in one day before, i screwed it up without knowing it. What should i do to start moving things back up? How do i share such insight as the Heart Bank, and three states of marriage with her. It answered so many qustions for me, gave me so much hope. I know what i need to do now, all i want is the opportunity to do it. Sorry again about the length, it just keeps coming.<p>Help<p>Todd

ToddK,<p>I can really feel your pain and frustration in your situation. There is nothing worse than a spouse wanting to separate when your love is so strong for that person. There is no easy solution...but hang in there, because there is Hope!<p>Well from my perspective on this, I would say that its very important to sit down with your wife and communicate to her how much your marriage means to you, and that you have realized that you have made past mistakes. You dont want to loose her.Just simply express your desire to be close. I know that you may have done this alrealy but maybe it needs to be said again. You can only do so much to win a spouse love..and regain that spark and commitment back.<p>I know that this is very hard for you. If you talk with your wife on how you feel and she continues to just not give you any time and love back...well all you can really do is let her go if her mind is made up. Her love may have grown cold and it maynot be any fault of yours. She has got to see for herself how much she needs and loves you. Separations can sometimes be a good thing. It can still work. If your wife leaves, hang in there and keep communicating to each other if she will allow it. If not well I guess you will have to wait and see if she will return to you. It can be a waiting game.Dont give up!! You may want to seek professional counseling for the both of you if she is willing(that would be great)if not...give it sometime, she may realize what a wonderful husband she has and come back to you [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p> Violet1 [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ October 31, 2001: Message edited by: violet1 ]</p>

Hi Todd,<p>I agree with what violet1 says, and it is very good advice.<p>However, i would NOT try to educate your wife about this site or its concepts yet. She will rebel, as so many have done before her, and she will take it that you are trying to force her into a box (which she is in, BTW).<p>Instead, learn all you can here about Plan A, the love bank, love busters and emotional needs and just work on these...SHOW her the concepts, rather than tell her.<p>I hope this helps.<p>Love and light,<p>Jacky

I did sit her down yesterday and told her how much i have learned and how much I am in love with her. That it's like first love again to me, that I am in love with someone and it is her. I couldn't stand for her to be soul searching without the answers to some of the hardest questions, such as why do the feelings of love go up and down. This was one that had us both stumped and could only say before, I don't know how it happened, I don't know why. I did tell her that I know there is hope that I know we can not only restore our love but grow it back to levels of passion and romance and keep it there. I have mixed feelings about what i did, but I couldn't stand it, to have learned so much and not share it with her. I come home early now, I take care of the children, I clean the house up. She just hangs out in her writers boards and chat group and doesn't give me anything back. I know it is early and she says she just needs space, she says she just needs to come to her own conclusions.. But I feel she is confused, she is about to turn 30 and has discovered an outlet with her writing. I think she is having a little pre-mid-life crisis at the core of this too. I know in my heart if I can just give her that space, that time without my taker exploding, she'll come around, she'll see what is real and what is fantasy. I go to bed as soon as i get the kids down to avoid my taker causing conflict just to get attention. She says she still loves me guys.. Yet she is taking what she needs as far as friend ship and community from her writing community and not looking to me.<p>My current questions are:<p>1. Do i bother to send her flowers today? Just saying something to cheer up your day. Not pushy or anything.<p>2. I have written several poems that discribe my love, my longing, my pain. They also talk about how I've made mistakes and how i've learned that love goes up and down on unfair grounds..etc. As her being a writer would this stylized, romatic approach do any good at the moment.<p>3. Do i not come home. Do I see if when she looks around and I'm not there, that chat groups and carreer's mean nothing without a partner. That I am the one that stuck by her when we we're young, I was there when our children were born, I have supported us, I have been faithful and worked hard for us. Not her chat community, who can be whoever they want, say whatever they want. When she can't sit from 5:30 to midnight with her virtual friends. How do i get through to her that Love, our marriage and our children are what is important. And that she can grow her career as well.. Do i go home and sit in pain, giving yet not getting anything in return? Will she come around if she know's i am in the house taking care of the kids?<p>Thanks for the feedback and please keep it coming,<p>If anyone wants to read the two poems i've written in the last few day and comment on them they are here: They are my first so try not to laugh..<p>www.poetry.com
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Todd Kuehnl

Toddk,<p>Well here is my perspective on your situation again....in answering your questions that you listed.<p>Sending flowers??
There is nothing wronge with sending flowers. No one can really know for sure how your wife will respond to these things. It certainly is a beautiful expression of love to send flowers.You love your wife very much and you have every right to express your love for her. You will have to determine by your wifes response when and how ofen to send then.<p>Poems??<p>It is certainly another beautiful expression of love towards your wife that is not going to hurt anything by giving her romantic poetry, although I would suggest not pouring on too much at a time. Its not easy to know for sure what is a good idea and what isnt. You wont know if its a good idea until you try. <p>Do you come home??<p>Yes, by not comming home would only cause you to feel even more pain. You and your wife need to communicate clearly where you are at emotionally in this marriage. If your wife is not willing to give any effort in nurtering your marriage than something has got to give. You cannot continue to live day after day with someone who is pulling away and not wanting to try any more. If she will open up to you and let you know what her emotional needs are, that would be great. It would give you a better idea on what is lacking in your marriage and you may be able to heal those areas.For a marriage to work, it take two people who are making an effort in loving and caring for each other. One person cannot do the part for both. At some point your wife will need to start giving back...if she cares about her marriage surviving at all,than she will need to do her part. Comming home everyday and sitting in pain would not be fun for anyone. Get things out in the open. Its time.<p> Violet1

ToddK<p>This sounds like classic mid-life crisis. Your W is on a journey of self-discovery. You need to be there to support her. She doesn't want the old life back, she wants a new one. If you can't give it to her, she'll go somewhere else to find it! It's not necessarily becasue she doesn't love you any more, but right now she is focused mainly on herself.

Your reaction sounds exactly like mine almost exactly one year ago. It sounds like you are trying Plan A (read up on it if you haven't) which is the right thing to do. But you should remember, the object of Plan A is to make YOU a better person, not to impress your W with everything you do. I too began trying to do everything around the house, but that only drove her further away. She didn;t feel needed at all.<p>I know it's hard, but for now don't think of this as a way to get your W back. Think of it as an improvement plan for you. But remember it really is a commitment to change yourself forever. Don;t take on so much that you couldn't keep on doing it for the rest of your life!!!! Doing small jobs consistently over a period of time will win you many more love units than the occasional big effort, followed by nothing for a while.<p>Of course flowers and poems will help, but again don't overdo it. My W told me that after going for so long with nothing, the sudden rush of all these things just felt like I was doing it just to get her back (which of course I was). She said it all felt very false and forced, and when I backed off to flowers occasionally, the odd card and ecard, etc it was much better. And again, it wsa being consistent that counted more. (Do you really think you can afford to send her flowers every day?)<p>As others have said, trying to educate your W is a big NO NO at this stage. We are one year into this whole mess now, and though we are much happier than we have been for many years, still my W resists any attempts to analyse what happened between us. I hope we can revisit it in the future, becasue I still have some unresolved feelings, but it will be done when she is ready for it, not me.

Well, we're doing it. Atleast I think we are. After all the energy, all the positive thinking and self learning and discovery, I had to agree to seperation last night. We even sat my son down and told him what was going on ( he's 8 ). He took it well although I don't think he's really absorbed it yet. The odd thing was that as soon as I caved and accepted the idea of the seperation we started talking like friends again. Her wall came down, I guess because I gave her something that she figured I wouldn't do. I don't think she has really thought any of this through though, the logistics of it our huge and difficult. We both just kept looking at each other and shaking our heads about it. I think once it came out and it wasn't just another idea in her head, that she started to see just how big and real and irrational it may be. Josh's feedback was You guys should be together, you can work it out.. This really effected her. We layed with the kids and held hands.. She wanted to sleep, I couldn't. She came down a little later, and I figured it was to start planning.. Nope, she went right to the computer and her message boards and chat group ( can we all say Habitual). This really got me. We had just told our son that we were getting seperated, she left both kids in bed to get on the computer? I broke down a little at that point, it just hurt so much to see this. She reacted to my pain, she shut everything down and came over and held me. Then she went up and went to bed... She may of finally realized a little something about her priorities, that her behavior was hurting real people, people that would do anything for her. I think that she is obsessing over this community she has found, allowing these virtual avatars to fill in the blanks of conversation, friendship and community that we should be learning to give to each other. I don't think it is a romantic thing, she tells me she doesn't want that right now. She want to focus on herself. It is not like I have not done the same ( games or projects), technology has always been a big part of our family ( I am an 3d animator and programmer for film and games). I just think that I never stood up and said, Hey get off my back I'm going to go through some compulsive obsessive behavior for a while. I have a feeling that if I can get through to her, if she realizes that she is moving us out of the way so she can obsess, that those people can say whatever they want, craft every sentence, pretend to be the types of people they are not, and they don't have to back anything up. I know I found out that career or anything else means nothing to me without my base, my life-mate, my family. I know she will discover this on her own, but why do we have to put the kids through this for her to figure it out? I am lucky in a way, my Mom is a Psycologist and I have been able to talk with her about this on a daily basis. This has helped me to stay on track, not make things worse. This board has been great as well. I am a problem solver by trade, a good one, I don't walk away from problems.. This one is just the biggest, most important one I will ever encounter. I know this can work out and we can be stronger then we ever were, have a healthy and amazingly rewarding relationship. Someone will benifit from all that I have come to learn ( i want it to be her of course) I will not give up. I see sparks of it all the time, she just needs to work things out and I just hope it doesn't damage the children. All i ever wanted was provide every opportunity for my kids, for them to have a happy childhood, to be a great husband... Arg, ok enough for today, I'm just going to see what happens.. I've tried guessing and planning and it just explodes in my face. I wish happyness in all of your lives.<p>Take care.

Todd,<p>You're right. She probably hasn't really thought any of this through to its logical conclusion yet. For 6 mths my W was planning to leave, saving money, making enquiries about jobs, appartments etc. After I came out of my panic and depression, I told her that, though I wanted her to stay, and for us to work things out, if she really wanted to go, I wouldn;t stand in her way. At this point she had a kind of 'breakdown' and came rushing back into my arms (for a while anyway). That 'honeymoon' period is over for us now, but we are both trying to make it work.<p>Like you said, I think she was in love with the idea, but had not faced up to the reality of it until that point. Then she saw that it wasn;t that easy to just walk away.<p>By the way, even if she does leave, don;t stop your plan A. You will end up a better person for it, whatever the outcome.<p>Also, in these trying times make sure to take care of yourself.