Do any of you feel that there are two teams here? The betrayers and the betrayed?<P>I've noticed a lot of this here on the board, and sometimes it gets very heated! I know that betrayed spouses are in a great deal of pain. That goes without saying! The postings here from the betrayed are always wrought with emotion and rightfully so!<P>Also, the betrayer seem to walk on eggshells a bit. When a betrayer writes something they seem to be bombarded with angry sometimes downright cruel responses by the other side. Don't get me wrong, I understand the anger and frustration, I just don't see how that helps anyone.<P>Let me make a suggestion:<P>We are all here because infidelity has caused us pain. Right? Whether we're the betrayed or betrayer, we're in pain. I think we can all agree on this one. And being that this is Marriage Builders, we're trying to work on our marriages. So, there are 2 sides to building a marriage after an affair. Both sides are represented here. Don't you all think we could REALLY help each othere here? I see such potential for opposite sides to give insight to each other for the benefit of everyone! <P>One way to do this would be to carefully gauge your emotions before posting a reply to someone...especially someone from the "other team". This site is meant for building up one another, and if it's not something meant to help or encourage, perhaps it's best left unsaid. <P>I'm not trying to start a war, I just want to see those in pain get some relief (me included!)<P>So please think about it before you reply and let's try to make this a place of refuge for ALL sides!!<P>Thanks<P>Tracy<P>------------------<BR>"I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me."<p>[This message has been edited by Sad4Now (edited August 28, 1999).]

Right Tracy, exactly!<P>If a post angers or offends you, DON'T RESPOND. Walk away from the computer for a while. Take a break. Go drink a soda or something. Think about it.<P>THEN you can go back and respond. Your response will be much less angry.<P>--andy

By the way Andy, I wanted to say I have really enjoyed your posts...so honest, insightful and sometimes heartbreaking...I'm an "airheart" too....would love to chat sometime about things, see how you're doing etc.<P> <P>Take care<P>Tracy<P>------------------<BR>"I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me."

WOOPS <P>I just posted on the marital bownies issue-and then I read this. I am so sorry. I was getting angry as I wrote the other-i wasn't angry when I started. so for now I will apologize for getting angry-but thats all I agree with you Sad-and thanks for being big enough to state it how it is!!!!<P>heartache

Sad-<P>Your point is valid, but I have found that when people of either side of this issue post looking for help they get it. If you are a betrayer looking for someone to say that you did the right thing, I guess you should look somewhere else. If you are a betrayer saying that you arre sorry and looking to rebuild you will find a lot of support and advice.<P>I have been here for a while and those are my observations. I hate to see any one in pain, but don't expect to hear that you were right to cheat, to mutilate someone's heart and pride. I don't think it will come from here.<P>I often don't post because I can't offer a positive answer. So your advise is good.<P>God bless.

Tracy,<P>thanks for your compliments. I don't know how insightful I am... just relating my experience usually. <P>I'd like to chat too, but I don't have ICQ. And I'm not too comfortable with putting my email address on a public forum like this... Besides which, my email addr will change after this week cuz I'm going to another job anyway. Did you post your email address to the email exchange thread? I can email you if you and if you ever want to talk, then you'd have my addr.<P>--andy

Hi guys,<P>Well, I agree that things can get kinda heated here. That's understandable. It's kinda like talking about politics & religion. (Please don't jump me on this ). Everyone has an opinion, belief, and/or experience that differs from someone elses. For the most part, I really think that everyone here trys to get along, and offer whatever help we can, regardless of the situation.<P>I also wanted to add that I have received wonderful advice from Both the betreyed and the betrayers, but I really don't think there is but one "side" here....... those who want to save and rebuild their marriages.<P>Just my $.02 worth.... <P>Butterfly<P>------------------<BR>My favorite quote....<BR>"Hello, this is God. I will be handeling your problems today. I will not need your help, so sit back and have a good day."<BR>

...........And if you're someone like me who is both betrayed and betrayer, it can feel like being split right down the middle ......... BUT, I cannot even tell how much insight I have received from all directions.<P>------------------<BR>Love is meant to heal. Love is meant to renew. Love is meant to oust all fear. Love is meant to harmonize differences. Love is meant to bring us closer to God.

Tracy:<P>I think that us betrayed spouses often times have a hard time accepting that betrayers are going through pain too. After all, betrayers are the ones who did the "wrong" thing. We tend to see ourselves as victims, sometimes not really wanting to admit that our neglect or our actions may have (and, I think, in most cases, probably [b]did[/d]) contribute to the deterioration of the marriage.<P>It's hard for us to see betrayers' pain because we are so wrapped up in our own. This doesn't justify verbal attacks, but I do hope you understand that the emotions often get the best of us, especially when we read a post that gets perceived as unrepenting.<P>I think MOST betrayers whom I have gotten along with well are those like DuncanMac, New Woman, RJR#2, StevieB, Maya, Suse, and others who do not try to justify what they've done, but rather admit that they screwed up and want to HONESTLY move on.<P>It's really too bad that there are several here who are too intent on justifying their affairs and trying to make their spouse or their lover's spouse look bad. I won't name names, but I'm sure you all know some of whom I speak.<P>Anyway, the point of my post is twofold:<P>1) I agree whole-heartedly with you, and I must admit that I have not been the best role model for controlling my temper.<P>2) I think as long as you have betrayers and betrayed in the same forum, there will be some natural empathy for others in similar situations, and therefore "cliques."<P>Guess we'll just have to get used to it.<P>------------------<BR>/// Lone Star * ///<P><BR>

I am a betrayer. I've been absolutely floored by the kind, loving, honest, understanding, and empathetic replies I've been blessed with from BETRAYED individuals. When my H cheated, 5 years ago, I definately lacked maturity. I'd have been fireing anger at any and everyone. I appreciate the replies I've gotten from both betrayers and the betrayed.<BR>FC

I think a high-spirited game of volleyball should get out some of our .... er ... um ... aggressions .... as long as we're taking sides here.<P>I'd suggest racquetball, but I really don't want someone coming after me with racquet in hand.<P>Okay, sorry. I'm hormonal .... actualy I'm the one that shouldn't have a racquet in my hand!<P>

All I can say is I'd be glad that you'd be on MY side Maya!!<P> <P>--andy

Tracy--<BR>I have to say for the most part I've been given some great advice and support and that far outweighs any negativity.<BR>I don't know where I'd be right now without this forum...I've learned a lot.<BR>Thanks for sticking up for me!<P>Airheart--<BR>So, you found a new job? Does the OW know? You're wife must be very pleased. I'm going to be at my old office on Friday and will most likely be running into the OM. At this point I'm feeling that I'm really getting over him...I don't think about him nearly as much as I used to and when I do I can stop myself and think about something else. I used to think about him 24/7 and it caused me extreme agony! I'm afraid that seeing him will bring all the emotions back.<BR>So, how are you feeling lately?

Hi Holly,<P>Yeah I do have another job. My last day here is on Friday. I'm taking a small vacation, then I'll start at the new company on the 15th. It's actually kinda exciting cuz I'll be working with all my old buddies who used to work here (we had some messy mergers and I lost most of my friends to attrition!) and I'll become a part owner.<P>I don't know if the OW knows about me leaving. She might've heard through the grapevine, but she's very strong about the no contact rule (moreso than me, since as you know, I caved a couple of weeks ago!)<P>My wife actually, believe it or not, has mixed feelings towards my leaving. For the following reasons: 1) I never got along with one of the guys I'll be working with. One time I actually said I'd never work with him the rest of my life. 2) She doesn't want to feel like she's FORCING me to get another job (which she isn't, I made the decision independently). 3) It's a small company and there's some risk involved. She would've liked it if I tried to find somewhere else first (I just wanted the HELL outta here!) 4) She hates the idea that I'm too weak to work at the same place as the OW.<P>whew!<P>As to how I'm doing right now... well... let's just say that I'm on the down side of the rollercoaster. Things were actually going pretty well the end of last week, but on Sunday we got into a fight. My wife said I was getting distant again, and she thinks I'm not doing enough to save our marriage. She started yelling at me, and our son (who just went to bed) heard and asked what was going on. She told him that mom and dad were getting a divorce. He got very upset over that. Right now, we're on hold... I'm feeling very distant now. Wasn't before.<P>--andy

I don’t see the betrayed & betrayers as two different sides here. I see a few people who are betrayers saying or implying, “my marriage sucks & I’m happy with the OP, so please give me your blessing.” Most of the betrayers here have or were at one time in love with the OP & knew it was wrong, but they felt/feel powerless to stop it.<P>Big difference in my opinion!<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html</A> <p>[This message has been edited by Chris (CA123) (edited September 01, 1999).]

Oh Chris, I don't see that at all. Most of the betrayers here are asking for help to save their marriage. What I'm talking about is when one side jumps on the other side simply because they are emotional due to their situation and something the person says hits a note that sends them in an uproar. They then let loose on the person with no mercy and are not helpful at all.<P>I really feel that "if you can't say anything nice..." you know the rest.<P>And please don't lump all betrayers here together. Some of us are trying to save our marriages.<P>Tracy<P>------------------<BR>"I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me."

Lump ‘em all together? Absolutely not. I agree totally with everything you’re saying. There have been a very few here recently who have said something like the op is the best thing in the world and I ”know” it is right. My marriage was a mistake from the beginning!<P>If they are in doubt as to what to do, then they have truly come to the right place.<P>If someone is jumping on the other because they are not sure what to do, then yes I agree they are wrong.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html</A> <BR>

Chris,<P>Granted, I don't read every thread on this forum, maybe not even 50% of them, but I haven't read any significant number of betrayers on this forum saying or implying any of the things you've said. There have been a few, isolated trolls who've come through and have announced, "I'm the OW/OM, give me your blessing," but they usually leave as quickly as they come. Go figure. <P>What I have seen is some very, very confused and emotionally torn people. Some of these people are people who very well could get the OP out of their system, but they have spouses who are also doing some very, very destructive things that are blocking rebuilding. Most of the people who fall into this category are not receiving any outside counseling, their hurt spouse flat out refuses to attend, won't talk about it, wants it to all just go away, or way on the other side of the spectrum, their hurt spouse is badgering, belittling and berating them at each turn. A few who come to mind are Facing Choices and Holly. I truly believe, by the sincerity of and the number their posts, that each of them would be farther along in their withdrawal if they had spouses who were more committed to giving 100% toward rebuilding.<P>I'm one of the lucky ones, as are Maya, and several others on this forum. We have spouses who, from day one, have given 100% effort towards rebuilding with us. They have done their part, AND MORE. I'd credit that as the reason we're not as confused as some of the others. If my H hadn't been so committed, maybe I'd be one of those who are stuck in withdrawal and are confused. Maybe I wouldn't have been so willing to let go of the OM. Ick!!<P>Chris, I know this is hard for some of you to understand because you are betrayed spouses who'd give your right arm for a chance to rebuild with your unfaithful spouse. But don't assume all betrayers have spouses like you. Some of them are getting their mistakes thrown into their faces daily, are verbally (or physically) assaulted, and are being emotionally abused, blackmailed and/or punished by their hurt spouses. And it is equally difficult for me to understand some of the betrayed spouses who have remorseful spouses at home who've ended their affairs and are committed to rebuilding, yet are stuck in the blame game. But, I UNDERSTAND, or at least I'm trying to. That's all any of us can ask of each other, right?<P>------------------<BR>Love is meant to heal. Love is meant to renew. Love is meant to oust all fear. Love is meant to harmonize differences. Love is meant to bring us closer to God.

What SHE said.

I am the betrayer in my marriage. I've received a lot of support here in my efforts to rebuild my marriage. <BR>I, personally, appreciate when the discussion gets heated and people jump all over my post. It tells me that whatever I am describing is particularly sensitive to betrayed spouses and I learn from this how to change my behavior toward my own H. <BR>I've searched for boards devoted to recovering betrayers, but there don't seem to be any. I enjoy this board, emotions and all!<P>TryingAgain <BR><p>[This message has been edited by TryingAgain (edited September 01, 1999).]