Hi we've been married for 4 years and over that time I guess the relationship has been going steadily down hill.<p>We approach tasks in different ways; analytically vs. get stuck in. This creates tension between us and makes it very difficult for us to do anything together without getting mad at the other.<p>Over the years I can see changes in myself from caring about people/childern/objects to not caring about anything and not wanting children. This so far as I can see has been in response to my W attitudes and lack of support. She would say I don't give her support. The problem is probably due to our modern non-patriarchal marriage such that there is a continual feeling of being in competition with the other. If you are in competition then it is impossible to give anything away which might give the other an upper hand.<p>I now feel that I was a better person before marriage and that any sort of modern-day relationship cannot be fulfilling or beneficial.<p>I always thought marriage was supposed to be about hapiness and synergy not about dissipation and loss of self respect.<p>Any comments/ideas/suggestions/anecdotes/empathy would be truly appreciated. [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img]

RAINBOW!!!<p>I don't have time to post much right now but I want to say WOW!<p>I think you have made a great observation on the state of modern marriage <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> The problem is probably due to our modern non-patriarchal marriage such that there is a continual feeling of being in competition with the other. If you are in competition then it is impossible to give anything away which might give the other an upper hand.
<hr></blockquote>and I agree that this attitude is a major contributor to the unhappy state of marriage today.<p>You are so insightful.

Dallas;<p>So, are you actually advocating the male dominated relationship.....<p>Personally, I never could see myself doing that...
But you know, as I look at things in relationships, there does have to be a dominant and a recessive, doesn't there????<p>Oh my, brain attack....
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Every army needs a general, fred!

Every hive needs a Queen [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]

Thanks for the responses guys!<p>The thing is we both are conflict avoiders but when they happen we both have to be extremely restrained to avoid mutual demolition. This shows itself by conflict avoidance - take last weekend:<p>She says I never want to do anything with her around the house. I guess its true - its just a lot less stressful doing construction type stuff on your own; no need to justify continuously or stand up for every single action, just pure concentration on the job in hand according to the plan that you spent the last month working out.<p>So she drove off for a couple of hours to calm down following me saying 'its true - I prefer to do certain things on my own'.<p>She is a strong woman - by her own admission and that of her Dad! But underneath -like most of us- there is still that child that craves affection/attention/acknowledgement/admiration etc. But although I give her some, I fear that if I gave her too much she would become a complete 'little General'!!<p>Maybe I take things too personally - every unthought out idea expressed by her taken as contradicting me, and being the best way to do it. Well maybe. But she would just bodge it and get it done rather than take time and do it just so - that sounds like perfectionism in me doesn't it?<p>My current thinking on perfection is that it is an imaginary concept born of the higher aspirations of the human spirit and as such does not exist and cannot be achieved - or our definition of perfection is fundamentally flawed.<p>That aside - phew! - I don't feel good about the way her attitudes/actions have resulted in my own standards being eroded to the point of virtually not caring - or is this symptomatic of a dysfunctional relationship?!<p>I feel like part of me has died. That altruistic soulful side that recognizes the needs of others and is motivated into helpful action and at the same time enriching oneself. (ie. having the dualistic concerns for self and group in balance and harmony).<p>That's probably enough for now - brain ache right!<p>Regards<p>
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I wish I had written this site six years ago when it had been four years into the marriage and "steadily downhill" as you say. Warning! Warning! It is now (for me) 10 years and two wonderful children later that I still sit and ponder the exact same issue(s) as you. I wish I had the answers for you. But having the questions (as you already seem to) seems to be a good start towards resolution.
You know "matriarchal" relationships work too (smile). You (and others) seem to opine for the days of patriarchal harmony. I do completely agree with the notion that egalitarianism is not always "workable" in a marriage - balance is though. And "little generals" need love and affection too. That label makes me think you have some issues about control, letting go, etc... I used to have a BF (not my spouse) that would amuse himself with my "little general" repetoire. He would let me bark orders, have everyone fall into rank and file and at the end of the day laugh, put his arm around me and call me princess. O.K. - he had other problems which is why we did not marry but I do recall with appreciation his accepting of me and my strength and not holding it against me in the love and affection department. I'm babbling. Anxiety has me up all night.
Just don't let this go on forever. You can waste your life pondering your situation - you have to take action - or like me find out it's time to "bust a move" (in any direction) when there's so much more at stake. The best to you.
V

Hi Vibeke<p>Thanks for the comments its always reassuring to know that one is not alone. [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]
Sounds like those issues never go away! It must be alot more stressful having to consider the effect on kids as well. <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> You (and others) seem to opine for the days of patriarchal harmony. <hr></blockquote><p>Just thinking about where the idea of patriarchal norm came from; my parents had a patriachal marriage where Dad had complete control of finances and what he said went and there was little room for manouvre. The same was true of his parents (his Dad born 1899). For my Mum's parents (from what I remember) he was an ex-army hypocondriac with inferiority complex and suicidal tendency (which finally succeeded), and she had complete control of the finances and held the family together despite exceeding abuse (both physical and mental).<p>Considering that the patriarchal option seemed not only best but that which is familiar - and appears to work (my parents have been married 38 yrs). However, my Mum does seem to get the rough end of the deal.<p>My parents in law are more equal and run a business together with WIL looking after aspects of finances and him negotiating, planning with business associates etc. They have frequent respectful discussions which appear mostly to end amicably - one swaying the other on occassion.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> That label makes me think you have some issues about control, letting go, etc... <hr></blockquote><p>Maybe, but forgoing your past for something antithetic is tricky! Surely if one partner has a particular long acquired skill it makes sense to respect their judgement and let them use it, rather than impedeing a task. Comes down to task assignment - but verges on co-dependency.<p>Reading some of the other postings regarding long happy marriage role models it appears that the 'team' thing has to be there; what better way than to have clearly designated tasks for each partner. Although there is clearly benefit in teaching the other!<p>Effective respectful communication has to be part of the answer to the whole concept of a 'happy fulfilling marriage', but why does that appear to be more difficult with time and increased knowledge of the person?<p>Regards
Rainbow