is it? only if it is important to you... <p>I posted the below msg on another thread but it seemed to apply here too...<p> A couple of things I do know - if you have issues with it ,don't do as some would recommend - noone can tell you that you don't have a right to feel what you feel. <p>To a large extent you can't control what you feel. -and to an even bigger exent the more you try to suppress feelings you have (maybe because some idiot on this site said you don't have a right to your feelings) the stronger those feelings will become - they must be dealt with... but it may require you to challenge your belief system...<p>Take the below post for what it is worth... you have values.... if your partners don't match, you may reconsider your outlook, or maybe realize she made some mistakes and you love her too much to hold it against her (women do this for us all the time). <p>Still if you don't truly reconcile it in your own heart, it will always hurt you and inhibit your intimacy with your wife.<p>But does 2 or even 5, or whatever one night stands in a lifetime mean her values don't match? I'd say the number tells you very little... you know her - or should know her better than anyone else... the depth of your relationship will provide the answers - not some arbitrary number...<p>POST:
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Most people on this site respect Harley. I'd hope it is because he is a credible scientist. His sytsem works because his advice and his books are well documented and rooted in real research and empirical evidence. That in mind, you might be interested in the research of a well respected collegue of Harley by the name of Larson. <p>Larson is a leading researcher in premartial counceling and in his book (should we stay together?) he cites premarital promiscuity as an important and significant predictor of marital unhappiness.<p>He cites research showing that BOTH promiscuous men and promiscuous women are significantly less likely to be happily married, AND significantly more likely to be infaithful to their partner. <p>Interestingly enough -and no doubt you will all scream bloody murder (but hey, I didn't conduct, reveiw, publish, or replicate the studies - social scientists did- so don't yell at me), but research also shows that promiscuous women are significantly more likely than promiscuous men to be both unhappy and unfaithful to their partners. <p>You can speculate as to why this is... self esteem? need for male approval? other issues imposed on women by a sexist society maybe? Who knows? <p>But it would seem (and make sense to assume) that for both men and women, your actions prior to marraige do tend to tell us something about who you are, and what your values are. It may also make sense, (since men and women are different), that the same action may tell us more, or something different, about women than it does about men...<p>AS with all these studies and statistics, this says nothing about any individual case, and nothing about any individual person. ... it only says something about overall liklihood of a particular outcome given a certain set of conditions.... <p>in addition it wasn't very clear about how one defines promiscuous... whose definition of promiscuous is right? or if that definition be the same for men as for women?<p>All these are issues you must decide for yourself, as you evaluate your own situation.

Unsureofme,<p>I won't dispute any of the findings that you are citing. What I will dispute is the concept that you get to hold YOUR 'feelings' against a spouse. Once you marry a person knowing full well what their past is, you then give up the right to judge and hold that past against them.<p>Are experienced women more likely to have affairs? For the sake of argument, lets say that that is true. Don't marry one if you feel that way! If you choose, however, to disregard that history, then you don't have a right to use that history as justification after the marriage. It becomes PAST HISTORY as of 'I do'. <p>We had one poster here not long ago that wanted to conduct an affair because his wife had been 'experienced' before he met and married her. 18 years before! Talk about fog! He wanted someone to say that he was ok in that and he wasn't. Feel anything you want, but that doesn't mean that your feelings have ANY BASIS in reality. Worse, if you acknowledge those feelings as having some life of their own, then you can use them to rationalize any number of improper actions.

SPT_FL, I agree with you... IF there is honesty upfront, then both spouses are given the opportunity to consider the situation, and make a choice in accordance with their values and insecurities. <p>(note: it is not clear from what he wrote if timhh ever had that opportunity). <p>But EVEN if he did, if something has triggered something and the issue has resurfaced, it needs to be confronted and dealt with in a constructive manner. -not ignored. It doesn't sound as if he is bashing his wife with it - in fact he sounds ashamed of it. -and we probably all agree that after 18 years of fidelity, 1 bad marriage and 2 one nighters should be pretty easy to move on from... luckily it also sounds like timhh's wife is sensitive to his feelings and is compassionate about his insecurities - this combined with tim's own desire to set it aside will no doubt be enough... <p>(Tim if your reading, good luck -she's a beautiful woman... she loves you and none of this is worth making one love withdrawal from your account in her heart... I think you know that...) <p>but SPT_FL, lets take a moment to point a few other things out for you... if the "survey" thread is any representation, it would seem as if MOST of the responders were never honest about their promiscuity before they got married - and it would seem that the vast majority still have not been honest about it... <p>If you ask me, if their past resurfaces and causes insecurity in their spouse, they should be sensitive, compassionate, and reassuring - not hostile and defensive.... after all it was they who were deceptive... it sounded, for the most part, as if the Hs were pretty open about their experience or lack thereof... ?? if not then the H should be even more sensitive, compassionate, and reassuring... <p>but I guess one's reaction (man or woman) would also depend on if one cares more about their marriage, or if they care more about defending their right to bang 30 people in 4 years and then be deceptive about their actions in order to establish enough credibility that someone might consider marrying them... ??? <p>If one really feels they did nothing wrong, then one should have no problem being open about it before marriage. After all, YOU made those decisions, YOU should have no problem waiting to marry a someone of the opposite sex who also believes you did nothing wrong AND is willing to trust you... <p>YOU shouldn't misrepresent your beliefs, values, or any aspect of yourself - including your past. Does saying "its none of your business" really ever cut it when your talking to your spouse? I think not... not for men... and not for women either...<p>As for Joe_lost, if your reading, my advice is to be careful. It sounds to me like you are more interested in her because you think she'll provide this wild sex you've been missing than b/c you actually love her... <p>Be careful what you ask for. You might not like it or want her anymore if she chooses to provide that for which you ask. -and if she says no, and that bothers you, then you need to ask yourself why your there in the first place... ?? <p>Lastly, she may well be beyond it, her past may say nothing about how she will behave as a wife. But her current behavior says plenty! -and it is likely that it tells you a lot about how quickly she'd jump in the sack with someone else if things are ****ty between you two in the future. You see, the biggest red flag is that she is insensitive about your feelings concerning it NOW... She flaunts and laughs and enjoys reliving the good old days of nostalgia... <p>If she really valued you, she would not be that way - she'd be honest with you, BUT she'd also respect that physical intimacy and monogamy means a lot to you as a couple NOW, and she wouldn't jeopardize your confidence in her by being so flippant about her past. <p>Maybe she still thinks sex with random people is acceptable??? Maybe she should marry someone else who also feels that way? Maybe after you have gotten what you came for you will let her do just that?<p>Whatever floats your boat...

Something I should have stated more clearly. I totally agree that even if your wife completely hid (lied about) her sexual history, that could never serve as justification for infidelity - insecurity maybe, but never infidelity...<p>But lie or no lie, a spouse's insecurity should never be ignored. It should be dealt with in a constructive manner... most of the time that requires sensitivity, compassion, and reassurance... sometimes it requires counceling... sometimes it requires that spouse to adjust their outlook... <p>but none of that will ever happen if you insist on responding with hostility and defensiveness... or worse yet by attacking them... no one (and especially no man) was ever made to feel more secure by being attacked and ridiculed for being insecure in the first place...<p>just my thoughts...

spt-fl let me make things clear to you. I love my wife and hate my feelings. I'm ashamed of them and the thoughts they have brought about and the terrible burden they've put on my marriage. I put a post here to see if anyone else had ever dealt with this problem and get some guidance NOT TO GET A OK TO HAVE AN AFFAIR talk about unfair. I truly wish I could just get beyond things as easy as you see them. Believe me I hate all this more than I could ever express to you wether you believe it or not. I don't want my wife's past to effect her or me. Someday you'll have something that bothers you that you can not shake easily and you'll see what a burden it is. I would never come on this site and degrade someone for seeking advice and guidance with a very personal problem. Sometimes when your not involved in a situation it all looks so easy to resolve just do this and that and it's all fixed, but when your involved in it and your dealing with the pain and frustration it's not so easy. I truly apprecaite the good advice and direction people have given me. Yeah I may be in fog, but at least I know I am and I'm looking for the way out. Thanks!

Tim,<p>First off, I had read another poster's reply that indicated that you were seeking to justify an affair and if that was in error, so was I. I apologize for that.<p>There is nothing in what I am saying to suggest that what I believe you must do is easy. Nonetheless, look at this from your spouse's point of view. What can she possibly do? She is hopelessly pinned with no hope of escape. Can she alter the past? No. Can she say anything to help you with your feelings? Perhaps, but who can say for sure. All I am trying to get across is that this is brutally unfair on her because it leaves her nowhere to turn. What can someone do about 18 years ago?<p>Clearly, something has indeed triggered this. Reading your posts does not indicate that this has been a problem over those years, but has surfaced only relatively recently. What has triggered these concerns? Is this something that you have found out about recently? <p>Yes, I agree with the previous poster that your spouse needs to deal with this in a mature, understanding way. Regardless of anything else, at this point, there is nothing that really can be done about what is past. She can do nothing to make this much better, which really puts most of the burden on you.<p>I won't suggest that I have any wonderful answers for you. I can tell you that you really only have three basic options. You can find a way to live with it, find a way to get the thoughts or concerns from bothering you or eventually the third option, that it will burn you up will occur.<p>I don't think that this is something worthy of feeling shame over. Just as your wife cannot change what has occurred in the past, you cannot control having thoughts. I do hope for the best for you and your wife.

spt-fl Apology accepted,, but after rereading everything that was posted you seem to be the only one that got the idea I was looking to conduct an affair. I believe I stated over and over how I hated these feeling and concerns, and that I felt this was all unfair to my wife. Everyone has feelings at times in their lives they try to over come, but sometimes it's not as easy as other. My brother has anxiety attacks and I use to say well you should just do this and that and get over it. Well one day I suddenly get hit with an anxiety attack, and I found out it is not that easy. Luckly mine never got as bad as his, and I was able to over come it after a year. I learned a big lesson and felt pretty bad for telling him it was so easy to over come. Until your in that person's shoe don't make a judgement on them or their problem.When my son came to us about moving out with his girlfriend my wife said I think he should do it. This triggered everything because she was not considering the premarrital sex side of it. Everything came falling out of the closet. It made me feel like she had not learned the importance of sex between two people who love each other. I needed to know how she really felt about her past. I always took for granite her attitude had changed. Now I needed to know that her attitude toward sex had changed. It's been the hardest thing in our lives to go through, but in the end we are closer than ever. She feels going through all of this has helped her to put closure on things also. She's not perfect as neither am I one mistake or several their still mistakes. She is the best wife a man could ever have, and she knows I'll always be here for her.

Tim,<p>It certainly appears to me that you have a pretty good handle on this whole thing. I can't tell you if I saw that particular post on this thread or another; it has gotten somewhat confusing with all the related threads.<p>My point, however, still stands. Of course, you can't help having feelings and concerns. Those feelings and concerns are perfectly valid. There is nothing wrong with that and it certainly is not shameful in any way. At the same time, in the end, you will have to find a way to get around them or they will cause you and your W a great deal of harm. That is all basic logic and inevitable.<p>I think, however, that I could have phrased it a bit better. I do hope that this all works out for you.

Tim,<p>The original poster that I was going on from was 'MT' on the 'Past tearing at my heart' thread.<p>Just thought that I would mention that.