I want to briefly describe two instances of what I perceive as H's verbal abuse. Years ago, this was a MUCH more serious problem and it has improved some with MC and my own awareness and learning how to respond.
Sat. after a long drive home, H went to the store to get some food and daughter and I wanted oreo cookies and milk. We were excited about this and fooled around talking about it the whole time H was out. When he got back he asked for help with the groceries and we were in the middle of a "wrestle fight" and would have gone to help in two seconds. We asked if he got the oreos, and he didn't and of course there was the obligatory groan--"Oooooohhhhh!!!" and HE said: "I need some help getting the food out of the ****ing car!" Both of us winced at that. How horrible it sounded and she told him next time he says that he's grounded, and I gave my two cents how I'm happy to help but I won't be talked to that-a-way no time no place for no reason.
Today, Mon am, after a very nice night we spent together last night, he got up for work, and I got up after him washed up etc. I was going to help him iron his shirt which I sometimes do if he asks me if he's rushing, but he said he'd do it. Then. He was looking for his deodorant and THE WAY he asked me to help him find it pissed me off bec. it came out as blame. I worked SO hard all week cleaning out the horror of the messy bathroom drawers and cabinets in both bathrooms and bought these drawer organizers and everything looked human finally, and he says "All this reorganizing is great, but not when I can't find anything." Well, at that I saw red. Why can't he just ask if I knew where his deodorant was? So I said I'll help him look, but it's not fair to automatically assume that I moved his deodorant which I didn't remember doing, and I found it and gave it to him, but he now wanted to continue fighting instead of a simple thank you. He kept at me in this irritated voice and all I heard was "blah blah blah" and told him to just leave me alone bec. I didn't want to argue, and THEN he had a caniption!!!! He started jumping up and down screaming at me not to withdraw how he hates it when I withdraw and he is having a fit and I could care less, and I aske him what do you want me to do? What COULD I do????
He lied down on the bed hyperventilating, then got his medicine and continued to breathe heavily, and then just left for work. He came back to get something, and this time he came to say goodbye to me. Geez!! What is with him???? And I DID help him find his deodorant. What the heck is going on??
The SCARY thing that I ask myself this morning is this: why is this SO similar to the situation I had with OM? He too had this sort of intimidating dance, almost to a tee!!! it's not even funny, when I wouldn't sleep with him and had this complete out of control temper tantrum, and there I was sitting and watching and thinking this behavior is not my problem, the way I did with H. this morning, BUT at the same time as I was emotionally tied to OM at the time, I did also think that I had to do something for him bec. I depended on him in a weird way, emotionally. Sad, I know. So what were my reactions in both situations? Both times I viewed their behavior as irrational and childish and even manipulative. Both times at first I despised the behavior, then got afraid of it, then felt the obligation to do something to make them feel better. That is the part that worries me. I have often thought of the time when I succumbed to OM's "pressure" (whatever you call it it was a form of pressure) for sex, and I feel so sorry for myself in retrospect that I actually did something I didn't want to do of my own choice, but felt I should.
The way H left today almost makes me think as if I did something wrong, this guilt for HIS fit.
Am I missing something?

I think that you need to get some counseling and not internalize your husbands behavior.

Find out what is really going on?

WOW! You just explained exactly what I go thru on a daily basis!!
So my question to everyone is - what if H thinks there is NO PROBLEM. Total denial. He just says he's sorry after the horrible attack and thinks everything should go back to normal.

I have even tried seeing help myself - but I can't fix a marriage only from one side....
We tried to see if he would come to a session as my support to fix my problem and he doesn't have time.....

UUUUGGGGHHHH!

I know exactly what to do ladies, and your man will cowtow to YOU. When my H talked to me like that in the past, I would practically cry from the humiliation I felt. He didn't care, he kept right on and then got hopping mad too. So then I tried a different tactic which made me feel a lot stronger, more confident. Instead of playing the victim, I played the aggressor! Just like him! I got pissed that he talked to me that way, and responded to him with a sarcastic, LOUD attitude that put him in his place. For example: He was pissed when he was putting some toy or tool together. He SCREAMED for me to come and help him when I didn't come out of the house in the one second he needed me.
Didn't matter that neighbors were outside listening. Seems that is when he is at his best verbal abuse, when others are nearby. So what I did was I made a very sarcastic, LOUD comment to him about his inability to put it together by himself, and that is exactly what he should do since I will not be talked to in that manner!!!! I think I was shouting at the time. Well, all of a sudden, instead of fighting with me, which I wholly expected out of him, he was like a puppy to me. And he said I need some help with his, will you hold this part for me?. I said, sure, now that you asked in a nice way, I will. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
So ladies, somewhere along the line of my dreary life, I made a choice to act in a different way. And it worked for me, and I hope it will work for you! Try it and see what a difference it can make for your selfesteem!

You H is letting some other problem or stress find an outlet to you. He may not even recognize he's doing this. Have you discussed this issue with him?

Does he have a temper at any other time? Does he "vent" often/a little/never?

I'll give you my 2 cents worth, because I used to exhibit this behavior trait often. For me it was years of pent up frustration from a rather severe and undiagnosed food allergy (made me feel lousy basically all the time and very irritable on occasion) and a general lack of satisfaction with how my W was treating me in our R. Sometimes this would come boiling over. Fortunately, the allergy problem was discovered in 1991 and I don’t do this anymore. Had nothing to do with my W. Now if she’d just treat me better I’d be a-okay.

Get to the bottom of it with him.

<small>[ December 07, 2002, 04:18 PM: Message edited by: Jake ]</small>

bravewarrior,

Hi there. I suffered for years from my H's verbal abuse. He was basically unaware of his sarcastic and mean nature, which was even more frustrating for me.

I read a book about 2 years ago that finally change things, its called "The Verbally Abusive Relationship" and I could NOT put it down! I could relate to ALL of it! I highly recommend it. It made me realize that it was NOT all in my head. I was NOT dramatizing the scenes, etc. My H was an AngerAddict and his anger would cycle. My kids and myself would walk on eggshells so as to NOT set him off.

After reading this eye-opening, confirming book, I confronted him more. Of course, it lead to more fights...(I was finally standing up for myself)....

Another thing I did was to begin a journal of the verbal abuse. Often, I would be in denial and try to forget the abuse..........but this way, it was written down and documented. We began counselling...and eventually the counsellor wanted me to share this diary, which I did.

My H was very VERY humbled by what he heard in the diary...and VERY ashamed. IN fact, he even sat us all down (myself and 3 kids) and apologized for his behavior.

He has now read books on anger...and controlling it.... and is doing a very good job! I am very proud of how he is changing. And he is now closer to the kids as well.

I just wish I had put my foot down years ago...or read something like this book. Good luck!

PS.. Dr Phil says...'there are NO victims, only volunteers'.........he also says..."you teach people how to treat you".... I'm encouraging you to put your foot down and stand up for yourself, you deserve to be treated with respect.

I need help too with this. Any suggestions on how to deal would be terrific. H and I are currently seperated due to an affair that he had this summer (it's ending, I beleive) and we have started MC and he has said that he'd like to move back in soon. We are trying to put our marriage back together (or so I thought) but it seems like if we spend the day together (with our 2 yo son) by the end of the day something sets him off and he goes into a huge tirade.

Sorry , previous message posted before I finished typing. The thing is that I feel like I have tried everything (apologizing, empathy, saying nothing, standing up for myself) and nothing seems to work. He could have the whole tirade by himself with me as a cardboard cut-out. This weekend he went into something that happened in the grocery store. I tried to apologize - he wouldn't hear it. I was silent - he told me to talk. When I tried to talk - he told me I was interupting him. It's all my fault, he accepts no blame and never apologizes. The worse thing is that our two year old witnesses the entire thing and then says "daddy what are you doing to my mommy?" Which infuriates my H even more - like I've made the son say that. This is so miserable!

Dear DueInJan,

Well, I would definitely recommend that book i mentioned in my previous post, "The Verbally Abusive Relationship". At least it will help you to see just what and how (and perhaps even why) your H is having these tantrums. And, it will make you see that its typical for them to blame us for the whole problem and to not see themselves as the one with the anger.

The book was quite an eye opener for me, I cried, yet couldnt put it down. It also made me feel valadated... it made me realize that I hadnt made this whole thing up...they just switch the blame onto us to confuse us.

But, I recommend you reading it when H is not around. You need to read and absorb it by yourself... and when (and IF) you are ready, you can talk with him about it. (You may end up wanting to go to counselling about it before you confront him).

The book also helps us to set boundaries. I felt like a doormat for years....I still am too nice most of the time...but things are much better between us these days as far as the 'anger'. We have a few other issues we are dealing with now...sighhh...

Anyway.... you do NOT deserve to be treated without respect. Good luck!

Jake, what led you to the doctor and eventually the identification of your allergies? My H is often stressed and irritable (my theory is either depression due to or in addition to some sort of physical undiagnosed problem) as he is angry, frustrated and victim-like not just to me.

All, one thing that help for me in maintaining perspective is to understand that he is angry at frustrated, in general (not specifically at me).

As a humorous note, our son is now 4 and has turned into the bad-word-police and the other day on the drive to school all I heard was H="grumble, grumble #$^%&$#^" SON="that's a bad word daddy"...H="grumble, grumble #$^%&$#^" SON="that's a bad word daddy"...H="grumble, grumble #$^%&$#^" SON="that's a bad word daddy"...H="grumble, grumble #$^%&$#^" SON="that's a bad word daddy"...

and at some point I just pointed out how humorous that exchanged sounded, which modified my H's behavior at the time.

Soory it took so long to answer - been pretty busy the last few days.

What led me to the doctor and eventually the identification of my allergies? I knew I had allergies since childhood, mostly hayfever type stuff. But I noticed a pattern of irritation, severe headaches, loss sleep and lower GI issues that made me look deeper. You see allergy shots do nothing for food allergies. I had to keep a dairy of everything I ate or drank for 8 months before the doctor pinpointed it . Now I avoid thos foods and medication helps as well. Until it was pinpointed I was just a "high strung SOB". But my problem was truly driven by the fact that I felt terrible all the time. Since I'd couldn't remeber what "feeling good" was like I had no frame of reference to compare to how bad I really did feel. It was "my miserable life" or someone "pissed me off".

<small>[ December 14, 2002, 05:59 PM: Message edited by: Jake ]</small>

Twenty years ago when I first got married I had food allergies. this made me very irritable and I found myself screaming at my wife. When I cured my problem I was a lot calmer.

hmmm, now just how to get him to a doctor. He didn't even go when his poison oak turned systemic. any advise?

Advice? Yeah, find a book or search the web for what you suspect his problem might be (i.e., allergies?), print out a copy and say, "I came across this and read the list of symptoms. I'm concerned that I see some of these in you. I think you should go to the doctor and check it out." The key is be sincere. But he really must help himself to cure whatever it is. You just plant the seed.

My husband is a minister and has verbally abused me since our marriage began. He never did this prior to marriage. He thinks he is right and when we do have an argument, he always manages to hurt me enough for me to be quiet (usually I go somewhere and cry). He really knows how to hit me "below the belt". He is an adult child of an alcoholic and I really think that is the basis of his problems.
Yet to others, he is kind, compassionate and generous. And, occasionally, he is to me. (Just throwing me a few crumbs, I guess.)
Also, he is never home. Always gone somewhere and never consults me. I don't think he is having an affair, although he is not interested in me.
I am REALLY getting tired of this. I am praying for wisdom. We have been to counseling off and on for years.

Dear Minsters Wife,

Wow, that has to be tough, hon. Again, I recommend that you read "The Verbally Abusive Relationship". Hopefully, you won't relate to it all as much as I did. But, it can help you to see that you aren't alone and give you some possible ways to handle yourself when he verbally attacks.

I would put the bad memories out of my mind and I'd forget about them......and didn't realize I was doing that. Then I began keeping a diary of them..and my feelings of just how much it hurt. Eventually, I read this diary at a counselling session. FINALLY, my H realized just how much he had hurt me over the years. He is doing MUCH MUCH better with it now.

Good luck, dear....