When my husband and I married over a year ago, it was with the understanding and agreement (or so I thought) that we would be equal partners in marriage. Now, after months of arguments, I have discovered that the underlying and very basic disagreement is this: my husband is a Seventh Day Adventist and believes quite literally in the Bible when it says that men are the lords of their homes and that wives must be submissive to their husbands.

He says we do have a 50/50 marriage, except when a decision needs to be made right away or when we disagree - then he will make the decision because he's the man. He clearly believes that being the man makes him superior and dominant.

We were reading "Fall in Love, Stay in Love" in an effort to learn how to resolve conflict and it was helping us, until he began laughing at the Policy of Joint Agreement. He said that no matter what it says in the book, he believes the Bible and the Bible says he is the boss. I absolutely, definitely, will not accept this. I won't be controlled, manipulated, bullied, or degraded. I need to be able to discuss and come to joint agreements with my husband, but it seems impossible with the position he is taking. (He says I can talk about anything with him, as long as it isn't something petty or stupid that will make him mad. Of course I never know what will make him mad until after he throws his tantrum.)

This situation does not seem to have a resolution! He is adamant that he is the boss, and I will not stay in a marriage that does not respect me as an equal partner. We are separated now, seeing each other often and trying to work on the marriage as we do still love each other, but he prefers to bury his head in the sand and not discuss any of the problems.

Does anyone have any ideas about how to resolve this seemingly unresolvable problem?

Hi Sue,

And welcome. I know I will not be of much help because my answer would be, a very counterproductive one.

I will say this, from my personal experience, when I let someone else make my decisions for me, they make the wrong ones. You sound like a very strong and capable woman, if you let him get control, it is hard to retake it back, and you will be more miserable than you are.

If he is not willing to come to an agreement with you, it will be difficult to make your M work.

This is not a knock on the bible, but, and I am not a devils advocate. My question is, why would god give women the capability of thinking for ourselves and making decisions if he truly meant for man to do that for us. Do we really know if that is God's word in the bible or is it man's interpretation of God's word? Remember the stories in the bible were originally written in another language, and back then, they did not have the capability to write down these stories, so they were passed on from one generation to the next. As stories are retold, sometimes the meaning changes, not intentionally. It happens. As words are translated from one language to another, the the meaning is changed. And one more thing, I read this long ago somewhere, I don't recall where. It had to do with quoting parts of the bible has one meaning, but when quoted as a whole it takes on a different meaning.

I wish I could recall the example that was given, but I will do my best so please bear with my butchering of it. (I don't intend to).

It has something to do with women obeying man, but the rest of the statement also said men are supposed to protect, cherish, honor, respect, and place woman before himself. (something like that). Like I said, I am trying to recall something I read back in the mid 1980's. I remember this, because I got in an argument with someone who tried doing this to me, and I had recently read it, and provided them with the rest of the statement. I don't recall it using the word obey either. I think it used a different word that had a similar meaning to obey, but it did not mean that man made all the decisions.

Yes, he is misinterpreting the Bible, but I doubt you will be able to convince him of that.

The upshot is that you cannot resolve it if he is unwilling to. Any decent marriage counselor will tell you that marraieg requires two parties that are willing to learn to work together.

Sorry to say this, but if you do not have children yet, I would be thankful that you found this out early and I would get out now. It gets much harder to leave later.

<small>[ January 23, 2003, 06:44 AM: Message edited by: kam6318 ]</small>

You know, I think you are both right that the Bible does not give him the right to make decisions for me and does not set him up as superior or the boss. It has taken me a year to see this, but I do believe this relationship has taught me a lot about myself and what I will and will not put up with.

I know now that I will never be able to convince him that that's not what the Bible means. I told him that the bottom line is that I will not stay in this marriage unless it's as an equal partner. When it looked like he could not agree with that, I told him I didn't care what he thinks the Bible means, I can't live with a marriage like that.

I filed for divorce and we split up. We are living in separate homes, but he says he still loves me (he didn't realize how much, he says) and wants to make it work. So, we are seeing each other, but the finances are separated out and we are trying to start again from the beginning. There have not been any "power plays" so far, because I am insisting on making my own decisions and he sees the logic in that since we are separated. I am back in control of myself again, but it was not easy to get here, and I'm not going to give that up again.

But can we get our marriage to work and go back to living together again? I know the issue is not resolved. It will come up again, and I will stay strong in what I know I need from a marriage. What will he do? I don't know but it's up to him, I have no control over that. All I can figure out to do is to make my position as clear as I can, and then see if he can live with it. If not, I have no problem being on my own.

This is a great website, and I'm glad to be a "newbie" here. I am finding lots of support here and I thank you all for that. Hopefully one day I can be in a position to offer support to the rest of you!

Hi Sue

There have not been any "power plays" so far, because I am insisting on making my own decisions and he sees the logic in that since we are separated.

The key statement here is, he sees the logic in that since we are separated. What about if you cancel the divorce or if you divorce and remarry. He has to see the logic in this as respect towards you as his wife and partner.

What about you guys out there? Do you men have any comments or any insight about this that might help me?

Ephesians

22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. 24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. 25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, 27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. 28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. 29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: 30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. 31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. 32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. 33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

But submission is a matter of trusting God more than trusting in your husband. Christ did not abuse the church. He did not treat the church rudely or direspectfully. He did not ignore, demean or abuse the Church. What did He do? He loved the Church, He protected the Church, He provided for the Church and He cared for the Church.

If your husband believes that he should follow the commandments of the Lord then he will love you just as Christ loved the Church. Basically he will be willing to sacrifice his life for you. Is he willing to do that? If you see in him actions that show that he is concerned about your desires and opinions then you should have no problems submitting to him. But, submitting is a verb, it is something that you do in accordance with the last verse. If you truely respect him and believe that he is following God's will for his and your life then submission will not be a problem.

If he demands submission, it is no longer ture submission. Simply by him demanding submission he becomes oppressive and intimidating. What does that do for you? Resentment and anger from you. And we all know where that gets us. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Trouble!

1 Peter 3:7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.

Simply put, I am commanded as a husband to love my wife as Christ loved the Church. To seek my wifes highest good and not my own (yes, that means that I have to come to you and ask your opinion on all matters). I am to honor my wife and to be considerate of her, not bitter or harsh. As her husband I should be intimately aware of my wife's needs, strenghts, fears, weaknesses, her goals and desires. The funny thing is, that if I do not do this my prayers are hindered.

So I guess if your husband meets all the above critera, you will probably not have any problems trusting the decisions that he makes and the submission that is refered to in the Bible will come easily.. But if he meets all of them, then he is already coming to you for input and opinions on all matters of the house anyway.

If he does not meet the above critera. Well, then he is using the word submission as a noun and feels that it is something that is owed him.

Wrong answer! I tried that one for 16 years and look where it got me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

<small>[ January 24, 2003, 09:39 PM: Message edited by: trusting her ]</small>

Trusting her - thank you for putting that here. I knew I read it somewhere, and that it was misquoted, interpretted and edited to suit the purpose of the quoter. In its entirety, it took on a whole new meaning

That does make a lot more sense, when read in context like that. It looks like my husband is using and interpreting the Bible to mean what he wants it to mean - that it gives him the right to be domineering and abusive. Would he die for me? Ha! He'd throw me out in front of him first as a blockade to protect himself. Does he honor me and ask my opinion and feelings before making decisions? When I stop laughing I'll try to answer that.

This matter of him believing he's the boss is obviously not the only problem in our marriage. There are many others. But I see the others as being able to be resolved if we can discuss them intelligently and calmly. We can never resolve them, though, if we can't agree on how to talk to each other and respect each other. We have been married a little over a year, after having known each other for 6 months. This is my 3rd marriage, his 4th. I am 49, he is 44.

My husband is a big, intimidating man with a volatile temper and an evil, hurtful tongue when he is angry. He has not hit me yet, but I have seen him hit his teenage son, so it's probably only a matter of time for me. So far it's been verbal abuse. My own children from a previous marriage are living with their father now because my husband yelled at them so often and was so hard on them. His own daughter will not live with him, and his son wants to leave. I am the only breadwinner in the family as he has heart disease and has not worked in some years. He gets bored easily and loves to buy things. We had an agreement early in our marriage that we wouldn't buy anything we didn't have the money to pay for. He is no longer following that agreement, and is always wanting something new, usually for him. There's never enough money for anything I want. I suspect that the only reason he wants to try to make our marriage work is because he loves the lifestyle and the possessions that I make it possible for him to have.

I was so stressed by worry and having to work all the time that I am on antidepressants and getting sick a lot(he lies around on the couch watching cooking shows while I clean the house and fix things that need fixing after I get home from working all day - he does make dinner).

When I read Dr. Harley's book and the Policy of Joint Agreement, I thought that this was what would save our marriage because I wouldn't need to worry so much - my husband wouldn't be constantly bullying me if he would follow that Policy. But he laughs and says the Bible says I must submit to him and he's the boss. I tried to get him to go to a Couples Communication class with me but he keeps cancelling. I also tried to get him to go to an Anger Management class, but he refuses.

No resolution here, I guess. In order to protect myself financially and emotionally, I'm going to have to go through with the divorce. Now he's talking about getting a loan and buying a new truck. He has 4 trucks already. And unless I go through with the divorce, I will be liable for his debt if he can't pay it. I'm up to my ears in debt already because of the things he has wanted - always the biggest and best so people will be impressed. Time to cut my losses, and they will be big losses. What a schmuck I've been!!

Sorry, I'm rambling out of frustration. But it felt good to get it out.