The following is my story that I posted the other day - today I got a call from him telling me he filed for divorce on Tuesday, and the only way he'd work it out is if I come home. My friend ended up talking to him to try to get him to meet with me to discuss things and he refused. Come home and leave all the ultimatums by the door or nothing.

I'm so torn, I still want this to work but it seems that he's not willing to bend even a bit. To "submit" to your husband is to support and respect and stand behind - how can one submit if they don't believe what's going on is right? Uggg - thanks.....

Here it goes, I've been married (2nd for me 1st for him) for 9 months, dated for 2 1/2 years before getting married, I have a 14 year old son by my first marriage and have recently moved out. (He's 36/I'm 33)

I am a Christian and he is Catholic - we did live together for a while before getting married and Mark (my husband) had land somewhere one state away, (about 2 1/2 hours from "home") we lived in my house (nice suburb) that belonged to my family before getting married. I worked out of my home (computer programmer) for a few years and my business was starting to take off.

Well, my family didn't approve of Mark, even though he used to be a stock broker on Wall Street, he'd since given up that lifestyle for a simpler way. Building a small cabin on his property with plans of building a larger regular home on the same plot. They saw this as something bad and I stuck up for the plan, working with him for years cleaning and preparing the spot for the new home, thinking it would actually happen. I wanted to get an apartment for another year so my son could finish out middle school but Mark thought the move would be good for him and give him a chance to meet all the kids before going to high school up there. This would mean leaving his sports teams and his dad that has always been quite involved in his life. After some time, I agreed with much reservation.

Mark's had a string of start up companies that have failed and all through I'd stood behind him financially and mentally. We married and were soon asked to leave our (my families) house, with that we ended up moving up to the small cabin - my son as well. Now my son and Mark don't get along that well, Mark never having children and my son not wanting to lose his mom to this other fella. At odds with each other most of the time now. After we married, things got much tougher. Outdoorsy GI Joe guy, playstation inground pool kid, pretty normal. Both very unwilling to take steps toward each other.

The cabin not getting fixed up as quickly as we'd hoped, my son hating the situation ended up fighting me in court to live with his dad. So he moved. Turning out to be the best for him in the downward spiral that is turning out to be unfolding.

Let me explain the cabin, it's a cute small 24 x 10 cabin a mile away from the nearest neighbor, with no electricity or running water or phone. It snows most of the time so getting vehicles up and down the mountain is impossible during the winter (7 + feet so far) so we end up hiking up or taking a snowmobile when it works.

Mark had promised that the other house would be built by now but with his business not working out and me moving my business to a new area, no money was coming in. The small cabin was getting worse by the winter when his water supply ideas didn't work and the well he built the house over was starting to freeze so the pump broke. Leaving us to pull up the floor boards to send buckets down to toss into the well to brake the ice and get water. No shower, that was also suposto be there but not yet. Heating the home with wood is also an issue, during the summer when most people in that area are cutting wood for the upcoming winter - he was trying to fix trucks or visiting neighbors and flitting around town. So now we've run out of wood too, that leaves him having to cut down trees daily to keep us from freezing to death.

This sounds like one of those really bad jokes where the kid writes home from camp but I assure you, sadly it's all real.

Meanwhile, I'd been begging him to put better insulation in and he didn't want to. "Trust me" is often the answer and the insulation that was put up was going to be enough - not for this kind of winter it isn't. -20º any given night makes it difficult to keep the place warm in a tight house but in a cabin with many "vents" it makes it even harder. Then conserving wood doesn't help matters.

Nonetheless, I've gotten to a point that living in this situation isn't working for me - having no (and I mean NO) money and the home set up like this I had given him an ultimatum..... Fix it up and get a full time job and an apartment, I would get a job too and we could do our business's part time till they take off, work on the house and save some money to build the other main house. Or I have to leave.

Now, among all of this no doubt that our fighting has become not just a regular thing but constant. If we were able to get through a morning without fighting for 10 minutes, it was a good day. My hair started falling out and my health was getting bad. I'd even started smoking again after giving them up almost 3 years.

I'd been trying to visit my son as much as I could but with money tight, it made it hard. His idea was also that if I wanted to visit him, that was my dime and I'd have to figure a way out to see him - and not that often either because my roll as a wife was to be home. With only one car now that made it harder. Thankfully, my parents gave me bus tickets for Christmas so not coming down wasn't an issue and gave me a bit of freedom. He's also pretty mad because I won't say he comes first in my life - I should tell him my son comes second. With having no kids of his own he's unable to understand that your kids always come first in one light and your husband is also a #1 spot in another light. Seeming to not cut it with that answer, nevermind my actions and where everyone is now living.

So here I am, on top a mountain, unable to work here because no phoneline or electricity makes a computer a very black screen. Unable to get to the office space I'd rented because of trouble getting down the mountain in general and the one car thing. Giving up my house and furniture, my family is gone with the exception of my mom and stepdad, my business being uprooted and coming to a complete halt, my fault too because I'm so depressed I've no desire to do what it takes to make it work also because of the move and most importantly, my son moving away. Heck, I even had to give my cat away because the wild animals where we live would have eaten him.... That tidbit of information I've managed to keep from my family....

Thus, the giver.... after the fighting got to an unnatural level, I had to leave. No physical abuse but mental I'm sure. On both ends mind you - I'm very angry about the whole thing and promises that were broken. He's not willing to see that I've given up anything and that's a big problem, he once said the only thing I gave up is closet space.... Now starting to come around admitting that I put myself in a position for my son to make it easy for him to leave.

Well, now I'm not living there and quite a bit warmer however still would like to work things out - if you'd like to slap me for being so stupid your going to have to take a number.
I had needed either an apartment or to move down with family for the rest of the winter upon my leaving and said that I also needed him to get a full-time job before I'd consider going back. Well, the apartment or moving to families for a while was out of the question. He's fixed the cabin up some by putting a portable shower in and propane heater, and tossed up some more insulation too - With that, I've said that I'd be willing to move back to the cabin but he still needed to get a job. I'd get one too - no go. He will not "give up his dream" with this carpenter business. So I've lowered the bar once again and said I'd accept a part time job to show some type of commitment to the wellbeing of our life. This would put food on the table when he or I don't have jobs going on. Nope, well not a complete nope. Only if a good job comes around - however the criteria of a good job is pretty slim.

I've been wanting to go out to lunch with him, meet him and talk with him, try to take baby steps toward working this out. Even when we talk on the phone - I've suggested trying to keep it really short so we don't fight, make it a nice phonecall. That hasn't worked. I either come home and work it out there or nothing. He hasn't come down here to talk or "use a bit of honey" to hit on my "girl" side.

This evening was really bad, he and I had make plans yesterday after a 5 hour fight on the phone - to meet for lunch today, we both wanted to meet and found myself excited about maybe a breakthrough. He was coming down to see his parents and would come over or meet with me too. Well, the day passed and he never called - during a big snowstorm, I was very concerned and left many messages on our voicemail asking him to let me know what was going on, if he got stuck on the hill or was in route, the one truck works poorly and as the day went on my concern grew. All day long. He finally called me at 7pm from a rest stop telling me he'd fallen asleep and was heading back up. Come to find out that he did in fact come down to visit his mom (about 10 miles away from where I am) and never called me to let me know he was okay - and decided not to meet. I was very upset and hurt - with everything that's gone on, and I still am trying to work with him, this was a mean thing to do with both of us teetering on such uneasy ground.

He'd admitted that he's not been treating me like a "girl" and when I've mentioned to him that a kind word or gesture would go miles with me because I really do want to come home. Today was my answer.

I can't help feeling that this was the "ton of bricks" that God needed to toss on me to wake me up and is it just another selfish thing my husband is trying to use to control me once again. I understand he's hurt and mad I moved out but felt no other choice was there.

Can something like this actually be saved? We had gotten along so very well before, trust and working together and commitment for a common goal and love was all there - it seems to be all gone now. I am getting out of the conflict mode and swiftly into withdrawal.

He's not all to blame either, I'm a big part of this - letting things get this far and putting blinders on for a big part of it too. Many other things I've not included in this as well as I'm sure you can believe.

Submit to your husbands - when they submit to being a husband? I've wanted to be a good Christian wife - live the right way and be right with God. Reading the Bible often and finding many verses about submitting to your husband.

Any help will be welcomed Thanks - at best, whoever reads this should feel better about their situation...

Ps - he's said he would go to counseling but finding one in our area has proved to be impossible and my minister isn't licensed to do it and any names he's given have turned out to be dead ends. Money is also an issue at this point as well. This is so ugly.
If anyone knows who this is - don't ever mention seeing this because I'd want to crawl into a hole......

This is all a power play from him. You have lose everything (just about) that you know and love and you are even willing to take the blame for it.

You need to read about emotional abuse. There is a post up in the emotional needs section, probably a couple of pages back, that, I am sure you would see yourself in. Put it into the search feature of this site. I hope you get some clarity and stability in your life. Mostly I hope you learn to trust you and quit letting him define your thoughts, opinions, feelings and sacrifice. Is it not painfully clear to you that, he is not at all concerned with your needs, losses or your pain?

Thank you Fresh for your imput, I did find that post and found myself with a lot of memories flooding back that were very much like that letter. The posts after that note were also informative, I do feel like everyone can find themselves in this position to a point but the difference is, when it is a constant - that is a line that some don't understand.

I've continued to stay at my mom & dads and have even been looking for a job down here - my husband's responce to me still being here isn't great as one would expect.

He still wants me to come home but on a "trial" basis because he doesn't trust that I'll not leave again, when the times get a little tough must keep plugging is the idea here.....

After telling him, this isn't a "tough time" this is unhuman and not right to force your wife to do this and to give up everything and expect me to simply understand his needs as first and formost, it has to be a two way street.

Many attemps to meet with him to talk in person haven't been agreed to - I must come home and leave everything at the door and maybe we can work on it.

I've found a marriage group that works with real bad situations and he's agreed to go but doesn't think it will work because I don't seem like I want to change and live the way he say's.

When saying that we would both have to change he's saying he doesn't need to because he's simply doing the right thing and is standing firm that I need to follow him and do as he says as a husband.

In other words, not looking good - So, I'll progress with a job, getting a car and starting to stand on my own two feet again. I've been able to spend much more time with my son and he and I are starting to mend fences - he doesn't want me to go back. Even his thought is that my husband should come to me and do the right thing - that I'm worth it....

God can change anyone, me and him. I'll keep praying for His will to be done and listen to the direction He want's me to go in, not mine anymore.

Lot's of mistakes here - continued prayer needed and staying in the Word, not to mention I know that I need to see a councelor myself because allowing all this to happen is really screwed up....

Thank you again.

I am very gald to see you came back! Please check this other link for strength and know you are not crazy!

www.verbalabuse.com

Hi Freshie,

Thank you for that link, I got a chance to look around on it and it's a good site. Really helpful and good questions to ask yourself.

I did get a job!!!! And a great used car from my friends dad!!!! God is so good, he's always there with us, sometimes it's hard to remember that when the times get really tough but He's there.

I went up this week to get a few things from the cabin. I was really hoping that over the last 6 weeks since my departure he would have been going gang buster fixing it up. However, that was not the case. Some things were done, but most had not and in some respects had gotten worse. I won't bore you but I also did get the paperwork from the court saying that he did file. Well, he managed to get that done and scraped up enough money for a lawyer to boot.... It was a very sad ride back to moms that night.

I haven't told him about the job or car yet, he's been away at guard for the last two weeks (thus the visit to get some of my things). When I told him I'd gone up, he wasn't happy and he said " so your never coming back", my answer was simply, not if it was going to be the same with no improvements. We kept the call very short so there ended up being no fight. That was a first! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I'm still thinking about going to Retrouvaille - the marriage class. Really depending on if he is still willing to go. I don't know if it will help us because I'm starting to think he's really snapped. Though he did admit it was nice being in a warm room the last week or so. Ugg.

I'm going to see a counselor this week myself, have a name of a good Christian group near here. All things are starting to come together.

Still keeping the faith that God can open my husbands eyes (mine too) as to this weird kind of abuse. It's so much harder when you really care about someone. However, God can give strength where there is none. Still trying to figure out where I fall in all of this.

Thanks again and I'll keep you posted.

Hi there...I saw your question regarding Retrouvaille on the other thread, I will tell you all I can this week, and what it did for us...but for now I must rest. I will be on later in the week...sorry for the delay I have been laid up fopr about 10 days now. I just didn't want you to think I forgot your question...
NGU

Hey NGU,

Thanks for your reply, I hope you start feeling better soon! I'm sorry it's been so rough lately. Whenever you get a chance to get back to me is fine - actually I had registered to go but my husband didn't , he just wants me to come home but has made no steps to try to get me there. It's not a good situation so I'm really not sure if the Ret would even help.

Well, any imput on it would be welcomed. Thanks and I'll keep you in my thoughts.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Stupid #2:
<strong>Submit to your husbands - when they submit to being a husband? I've wanted to be a good Christian wife - live the right way and be right with God. Reading the Bible often and finding many verses about submitting to your husband.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Stupid (what a terrible user name!) -- I won't tell you what you should do, but I did want to point out that this concept is the most "twisted" one in the bible -- not twisted as in wrong, but twisted as in the way that people manipulate the meaning.

I don't have a bible on hand and it's been quite a while since I've read it, but it says something to the effect that wives should submit to their husbands, and that husbands should love their wives as the church (or something like that). God does not give license for a man to dominate and abuse his wife. His will is for wives to submit to their husbands when they are loving them as they would love Jesus and the church. It is a MUTUALLY RESPECTFUL love.

I encourage you to go to Retrouvaille if you want to give your M one last chance. They address the topic above as well. A happy M is a two way street, and it doesn't seem as if your H is giving an inch. Please do not feel guilty for setting and keeping your boundaries (BTW, I suggest you read the book Boundaries -- it's Christian-based).

Good Luck,
A

Dear S#2-- You must know that God loves you. As a beloved, He would never condone your being treated with such disrespect. Being imprisoned in third world conditions away from basic needs and decent human companionship is not okay!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> Please have enough respect for yourself to insist on being treated with basic decency by your H. His demands demonstrate his lack of care for you and your needs. Your requirements are quite reasonable. I would not compromise. What will he do to you once he gets you isolated and under his control again?

I have struggled long and hard over my worth outside the context of my marriage, and I know that I can be a worthwhile contributer to the world, even if, at some point, I'm not a wife any more. --DT

Hello all and thanks for all your replys.

I did indeed meet with hubby the other day and nothing has seemed to sink in with him - same 'ole thing.

Geeeeeze, all I want is something a bit more normal - I love doing the "wife" thing but he's being such a brick wall. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> Absolutely Refuses to leave that cabin, "waste of money for an apartment - yadda yadda, It's not that bad, I'm going to fix it up, we'll have a shower soon, getting a small home loan to build the other house is out of the question" UGGG!

He totally blew off Retrouvaille, said we didn't have anything in common anymore and still doesn't look like I'm going to change, so why waste his time...... Now has agreed to go to a MC near his area, as long as it isn't religious or pushy.... I'll no doubt find one and have to see if he blows this off too....

He's even said he's met other woman that have done this sort of thing (very, very raw homesteading) and have been happy about it....

If your that woman out there, Please Post so I can send you his #....

Bottom line is - I'm not going back for this kind of treatment, sticking to my guns about the apartment till the other house is done (who really knows when that will be).

He doesn't seem to realize any of my needs, as small and shabby as they are, still not being met. This isn't like I've left him because he's left the seat up one too many times......

Can you tell I'm on a roll - I've been slowly working myself into a better position, job, car, and just got my cellphone back on after a long time.

Being down here has really started to build the bridge that fell between my son and myself, we go out a lot and spend quality time together rather than the rush because I'd always have to catch a bus back. Been going to all his games like I used to. I'd be willing to bet if I continue to go this route, he'll even come back to live with me because the other side of the coin is that "dad" isn't as fun full time as he thought he'd be..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

So.... working it out really is however it works, I don't see him changing or bending or even a slight lean - untill I see some major changes, I'm going to keep pressing on.

God is SOOO good and I've given it to Him - I have to shut up and let Him drive because I've really made a mess of things when I take the reigns. Wherever He leads me, I'm trying to listen and be happy about it - I don't want to end this marriage but it may be ended already.

I just wish I wasn't so crazy about the man I dated and fell in love with. We used to laugh about everything - and do anything for each other. Well, maybe these are rose colored hind sight glasses I've got on... I'll have to ponder that one.

Thank you all so much for letting me ramble on so - this site is such a great venting place, reading all the other posts and getting my own posts answered has been such a blessing to me. Thanks again - be back soon. J

Hi there..I have a few minutes and wanted to reply to you about Retrouvaille. I am sorry that he doesn't at least want to try it. As I am about to tell you, it is not for everyone.
Please bear in mind that my experience is not of the norm. There is not alot you can say about the program.. They ask that you not reveal alot about what goes on there. I can tell you that it is very informative, and for the right people very helpful. It is alot of work, but only between the two of you. NO-ONE knows anything of why you are there. I was very surprised at my H immediately saying that he would go to it. He is a very private person and hesitated at therapy pre his affair b/c he didn't "want others knowing our dirty laundry, and didn't need someone else to tell him what he needed to do". But he went, even put up with me as our weekend was cancelled, and then put back on all in the matter of a few hours!
Anyway, being in a hotel for the first time since his affair was a HUGE trigger for me as that is where most of his affair happened. The walls came in at me. (The minute I got there I felt as if she were in the room, mind you I do not know what she looks like but I saw this faceless person in the corner of the room, and she remained there all weekend. I grabbed the ice bucket and ran from the room after he commented that he would get the ice, and cried inbetween the vending machines for a few minutes. When I got back he said we could go or sleep in the car!!!, but I needed to stay) I got into what they were trying to help us with and the demons subsided.
They try to teach you a different way to communicate, to listen and explain your thoughts. But for us, with the way my H travels, it was too much to do, and he also felt it was too "flowery" for him. But PLEASE understand, for most people it is such a positive experience. I think we may have done it too early. I was not ready to be forgiving, and brought up the affair way too much. Also I think I tried to use the concepts too much"by the book" so to speak. And the truth be told, even though it didn't work the first time, I would love to try again...but later as I am still very stuck. I think I would grasp the concepts a little better.
Like I said, there is a wealth of information there for you, and if he says he will, go with an open mind, and know that you will address alot of things that are personal, but it is well worth it.
I hope this helped and not scared you away. I do know that there are alot of threads that give more positive replys to your question, one of which I think I started. Search under my user name under the Pregnancy/Child forum and the general questions forum (I am not sure if it would be in Gen questions II or in the read only) but I had asked what others thought and got alot of responses.
God Bless, and hang in there. Keep your boundries. Sounds like you are handling things well.
Again, sorry about the delay in responding. I am just getting back to typing long periods of time on the computer, and tonight I can't sleep...
NGU

I am not sure how to do this but here goes I hope it works...
here is a link to the one I posted in Gen Quest II

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=006772#00 0000

I tried to see if I posted on the Pregnancy/Child forum, but it wasn't there. I probably didn't, thinking I would get more responses on the GQ II forum...see told ya I couldn't sleep!
NGU

<small>[ April 10, 2003, 01:17 AM: Message edited by: Not Giving Up ]</small>

This sounds like my first marriage. I did finally leave and that was so hard, not that that is what i am advising you to do. I think the main thing to realize is this- You cant fix your marriage all by yourself. I think that when want so badly to fix things we think we can do it alone but we can't. You can't make him get excited and motivated as I am sure you already know and 2, he will only do to you what you let him. You gave up everything for him and most of the time they are not as idiotic as they try to pretend. He knows what you have done for him but if he admits it then he might have to stop being stubborn. I think you did the right thing be removing yourself from that situation. Now its time to hold your breath and hope he loves you enough to meet you half way. The outlook so far doesnt look good but if he doesnt want to give his 50% then I would suggest you put your priorities back in order and hold your ground for you and your son.
If he does meet you half way then that should show you there is some ground to be happy with him.
Best Wishes

Hello all,

Thanks for the words of inspiration - need all I can get.

He called the other day and said he got some other paperwork from the court and that we needed to get the ball rolling because he can't keep filing and not filing..... So my answer was "Let me get this right, you want to proceed with a divorce because you don't want to have to fill out paperwork again later? The people at the court might get mad at you if you don't go through with it?" He said no, that that sounded stupid - he just wanted to keep moving forward........

I mentioned about the MC in his area and he keeps on with the "I don't think it's going to work - nothing in common" crap. I made an appointment for myself for one near me and left him a message asking if he wanted to come with me - just to start, then we could find one closer to him. He said he didnt' want to drive that far - Sooooooo I guess this marriage isn't worth a 2 hour ride to save...... hmmmm, yet his National Guard Base is a 4 1/2 hour ride for him every month....... Telling hugh?

Oh well - I went to the MC and as I'm sure you all know - hard to blurt everything out in the first hour so I plan on going back and sticking with it. She's a nice older woman with a christian background.

He doesn't want to be married I guess - all this is about him not wanting to get an apartment for a year or two - seem's really weird, whole thing does really.

Still praying that God break his stubborn, pround spirit and that he'll have the desire to do the right thing by us. If it's God's will it will happen - but I'm also keeping in mind that this might be something I have to walk away from. And with that - I need to have the strength to stay strong and get thorough this as well.

Ugggggg

Thanks again - I'll keep checking in - sorry it took me so long this time!