I feel I'm going crazy. two months ago my husband of 9 years and I had a late night discussion (not even a fight) because I was upset that I never get to see him. He's a county cop, works almost 24-7. He sleeps, gets up and goes to work. comes home between 2:30 and 5:30am. I work days. I wanted him to take some time off so we could do something. he said he couldn't because they are short handed (its been this way for a year now) I asked that he work something out. He felt I was being unreasonable, used a tone I took offense to and said some smarta**ed things. after a while I decided that I wasn't important to him and suggested that he go stay somewhere else for a while. I was hurting regretted it almost immediately, but didn't know what else to do. He relunctly agreed and made arrangements. that evening when I got home i called him at work and told him that I was sorry, just too frustrated and that I didn't want him to leave, that I loved him and would be happy if I got to see him sometime. He agreed to come home, but when he did he informed me that he didn't love me anymore. that he only felt for me like a friend and he didn't think he wanted to be married anymore. All very shocking to me because we have always been so happy, so in love, so affectionate, even earlier before the discussion. Now for the last two months, after reading everything on this site and trying to be patient. he still won't even kiss me. we still sleep in the same bed. we've made love (had sex) a few times (kissing sometimes) he says he doesn't feel anything for me. He has been coming home for dinner most nights, work permitting. I've printed things off for him because he thinks it's hopeless and that he can never love me again. its so obvious that he tries to ignore me. He acts like he will get cooties if he touches me. But we have had sex 1 -2 times each week. he says "bye" as he goes back to work after eating, hesitates like he wants to kiss me or me kiss him, but he refuses to make a move. I go and kiss him - he doesn't kiss back. I've been trying so hard to stay positive, but its getting harder. two nights ago I get up at 3:30am to talk to him. he tells me again that he doesn't feel anything for me, he wants to leave, but feels traped because of our finances-neither one of us can afford to be on our own right now. He says he resents me trying to get him to look at this site and that I am not going to force him to try and make this work. he afraid to try because he said he's been trying for 4 years and he still don't love me. I open up about my fears that caused me to ask him to leave and asked for forgiveness. He states again that he doesn't care for me except as a friend. then he initates sex before I leave for work. now today he gets the evening off and he leaves to go to a rodeo in another town. He's had a couple of other days off here and there the last couple of months and he spends them in another town. I want him to have time off and to de-stress because of his job he needs it bad. but I can't stand it that he won't spend 1 hour with me or our son. He won't even talk long enough to make a joint agreement. He won't even look at the emotional needs assessment. Nothing. he lets me meet some of his needs but he refuses to meet any of mine or even conside my feelings about anything. Am I wasting my time. Or is more time need? a different strategy? I'm lost. Please help me. I don't know what to trust. we've always got along great. No real problems except when he works, he pours all of himself into it. I can wait this out if he will ever come around, we're worth it. but I can't tell if he ever will and I don't think we can get it back if he never becomes willing to help me work at it. Please help, tenbo

<small>[ July 05, 2003, 12:33 PM: Message edited by: tenbo ]</small>

Tenbo,

I totally feel your pain. Your H sounds just like mine. High stress job, no energy for me or kids, expects me to "make him happy", no interest in my needs.

I'm still going through some of the same, however, I can recommend reading through this site and a christian book called "Love life for every married couple". It's not what you think it is. It has an entire chapter dedicated to those who are trying to save their marriage alone.

It has helped me so much, I know it will help you.

My heart goes out to you.

Pana

Thanks Pana, I'll check out the book. Hpoing things get better for you too. Thanks again.
Tenbo

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by tenbo:
<strong>I feel I'm going crazy. two months ago my husband of 9 years and I had a late night discussion (not even a fight) because I was upset that I never get to see him. He's a county cop, works almost 24-7. He sleeps, gets up and goes to work. comes home between 2:30 and 5:30am. I work days. I wanted him to take some time off so we could do something. he said he couldn't because they are short handed (its been this way for a year now) I asked that he work something out. He felt I was being unreasonable, used a tone I took offense to and said some smarta**ed things. after a while I decided that I wasn't important to him and suggested that he go stay somewhere else for a while. I was hurting regretted it almost immediately, but didn't know what else to do. He relunctly agreed and made arrangements. that evening when I got home i called him at work and told him that I was sorry, just too frustrated and that I didn't want him to leave, that I loved him and would be happy if I got to see him sometime. He agreed to come home, but when he did he informed me that he didn't love me anymore. that he only felt for me like a friend and he didn't think he wanted to be married anymore. All very shocking to me because we have always been so happy, so in love, so affectionate, even earlier before the discussion. Now for the last two months, after reading everything on this site and trying to be patient. he still won't even kiss me. we still sleep in the same bed. we've made love (had sex) a few times (kissing sometimes) he says he doesn't feel anything for me. He has been coming home for dinner most nights, work permitting. I've printed things off for him because he thinks it's hopeless and that he can never love me again. its so obvious that he tries to ignore me. He acts like he will get cooties if he touches me. But we have had sex 1 -2 times each week. he says "bye" as he goes back to work after eating, hesitates like he wants to kiss me or me kiss him, but he refuses to make a move. I go and kiss him - he doesn't kiss back. I've been trying so hard to stay positive, but its getting harder. two nights ago I get up at 3:30am to talk to him. he tells me again that he doesn't feel anything for me, he wants to leave, but feels traped because of our finances-neither one of us can afford to be on our own right now. He says he resents me trying to get him to look at this site and that I am not going to force him to try and make this work. he afraid to try because he said he's been trying for 4 years and he still don't love me. I open up about my fears that caused me to ask him to leave and asked for forgiveness. He states again that he doesn't care for me except as a friend. then he initates sex before I leave for work. now today he gets the evening off and he leaves to go to a rodeo in another town. He's had a couple of other days off here and there the last couple of months and he spends them in another town. I want him to have time off and to de-stress because of his job he needs it bad. but I can't stand it that he won't spend 1 hour with me or our son. He won't even talk long enough to make a joint agreement. He won't even look at the emotional needs assessment. Nothing. he lets me meet some of his needs but he refuses to meet any of mine or even conside my feelings about anything. Am I wasting my time. Or is more time need? a different strategy? I'm lost. Please help me. I don't know what to trust. we've always got along great. No real problems except when he works, he pours all of himself into it. I can wait this out if he will ever come around, we're worth it. but I can't tell if he ever will and I don't think we can get it back if he never becomes willing to help me work at it. Please help, tenbo</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Tenbo,
I feel your frustration and your anger. I believe it would be wise to read Dr. Harley's book: Love Busters.
but why? It seems your husband does not love you anymore, so the first step would be to understand why you guys have reached this stage in your marriage? you may have been ignorant to your problems and thought the problems you had are TRIVIAL. I learnd hard that there is nothing TRIVIAL in marriage life and every gesture or word means something and requires a positive adaptation...after you learned what cuases this seperation, then you can plan it to resolve the problems.

I think the book refers to both stages and have some guide lines to follow.

I have been ignorant in my marriage and I am paying back for all of that now. I am planing to read the book in next two weeks and If I come across any interesting points, I will share it with you.

Try to be a leader in your marriage life and do your best to save it. (although I know how tough it is to be Ms./Mr. wise)

regards,

my heart goes out for you. its very difficult to live with a man that doesn't love you i know by experience. but it really depends on him how long it will last. my h has stood 24 yrs and each year it gets harder he has stood because of the children and because he worried that we can't make it on our own and sometimes i think he is more afraid for himself than for us. all i can say is be nice try to please him in every way that you can. show him how much you him. when we arque i tell him i'm going to try to be a better wife and he says i am a good wife there is nothing that i can change but i do give him credit for staying as long as he has with out that great love that we all want to feel. what i really wish that i can feel from him to me. so i know how it feels and it really hurts God Bless and ask him for guidance its the only way you will survive

Richard & Ilia

Thanks so much for your kind words and encouragement. I did read and re-read about Love Busters and Emotional Needs. I really searched myself to take a good look at what LBs I was doing. I discovered that what I thought was "informing him of what I needed and what would make me happy" was not information; it was LBs. Complaints. Or at least thats how he must have taken it in his state of mind. I was so concerned with what I was missing out on (affection, closeness, time together, etc) that I wasn't thinking about all the hours he's worked for so long, and under the kind of stress that he is.
After this good look at my behavior and how it was doing nothing but making withdrawals from my Love Bank, I decided to do everything I could just to CARE for him. To try and meet his every need, which he wouldn't let me (or didn't care). Trying hard not to do any Love Busters. It may be paying off finally.
Just this week, he's started calling unexpectedly, not really wanting anything in particular. He's been stopping in (while on duty) and spending 30 minutes to a couple of hours at a time each day. Hadn't done that in nearly a year. He's even called me Baby and Honey a couple of times. Still hasn't said he loves me yet or kiss me the way he used to, but things are so much better. He's touching me again while we sleep and we have been making love each night (morning). It's still not RIGHT, but so much better, I can't stop smiling.
There is hope. And maybe I'm just being hopeful but I swear that although he won't say it, there's love in his eyes. I'm staying with "Taking CARE of him" and avoiding identified Love Busters, not crowding, questioning, or being too needy myself, and yes of course praying. And since he is now letting me meet his needs and actually accepting Deposits we have a chance.
I'm am so glad I found this site early on once he hit the state of withdrawal. Otherwise, I'd still be doing everything wrong; feeling sorry for myself and being "selfish". There is hope here and for all of us. You guys hang in there. Will keep you up to date.
Thanks again for you thoughts, Tenbo

Dear Tenbo:

You have been married for 9 years, and I don’t think people just falls out of love. Do you have any suspicions that there might be someone else on his life?

Tenbo, have you tried counseling? Does he want to go to see a marriage counselor with you? You guys have a son, and should try to work things out. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Yourhonestopinion

Hi all,

This is just an update. Things are still going okay. Not great, well...maybe great, compared to how awful it was.
He still hasn't said he loves me yet. But he calls me regularly while he's working, he stops in and visits with me while he's working. He's coming home earlier than he has in months; lately its been before 1:00a.m. And today, he approached me for a kiss. Yes. Yes. He came over and kissed me. This was a shock. He's been letting me kiss him, but today he kissed me.
And... the other day, Tuesday, I think, we were talking about some of our savings. He's needing (wanting) an assualt rifle, one with laser sights, lights, etc. He was asking if we could manage. I told him yes but I figured that he would want to leave it alone so that we'd have deposit, insurance money, etc. (money for starting a new life alone) He kinda hem-ha'ed a little bit. So I asked him if he stilled wanted to move. Instead of giving me a "He** YES, Can't wait." like I got a few weeks ago. It was "well..I..don't know. I...don't..know." I was in my car and could have wrecked.
So, whatever his/our problem is, its still getting better. No, I still don't think he is or was having an affair. I believe I was doing too many "Love Busters". And I was being so self consumed, so selfish that I was making very small "Love Deposits", Meeting very few of his needs. Concentrating on my needs, and what he wasn't doing for me.
Right or wrong, don't know. Don't know if I care. All I know for sure is that I found this site when things seemed really hopeless. He wanted out of our marriage, out of our house and was not interested in spending ANY time with me.
I began reading about the Concepts (I read the entire site) and started trying to implement what I was learning. Still he would not let me make any deposits. I was really feeling lost when I came into the forum, wondering if I should give up or not, because it didn't seem like it was getting any better.
But I think I was wanting it all to be better, and I wasn't appreciating all the LITTLE things that were better. And now, even though we still aren't where we need to be, he still shows no interest in counseling, filling out the questionnaires, or anything of the sort. He is coming around. So long story short. The Concepts in this site work. They take time. You have to be patient and understand that your needs will not be met, but eventually it will work. I know we still have a long way to go. But I have so much hope now. Hope for a marriage thats even better than we had before.
I also have to give credit to God and a book I've been reading "The Four Agreements" that has helped me understand myself. and how to change the things I don't like. How to be happy and at peace with myself. I believe this change in me has probably had a big impact on him also. These changes and understandings have made it so easy for me to apply the MB concepts. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> And all of this is starting to have a positive affect on my H and our marriage that was pretty much over in his mind a month ago. Thank you all for listening to me and for talking to me. Your words and advice is priceless. Sent with love, Tenbo

Tenbo,

I've read through your posts and others' replies, and although my situation is a little different from yours, I think we're in the same boat. About a year ago, my husband of 7 years came home and announced that he was leaving his first-shift factory job to take a second-shift job in a restaurant. He didn't discuss it with me ahead of time or even inform that he was considering this move (probably because he could accurately predict my reaction). He says that he's just a night person and that it's so much a part of who he is that me asking him not to work second shift is, in effect, asking him to change. In the year that he's been on nightshift, our marriage has steadily fallen apart to the point that we are now separated. I believe this is partly because we don't spend enough time together (he thinks we don't need to spend much time together, can't convince him otherwise) and partly because I've mishandled my anger, frustration, and lonliness caused by being a single-but-married mother. You've said that you decided just to focus on caring for him and striving to meet all of his needs, whether or not he'd let you, and independant of whether or not he was meeting yours. HOW DO YOU DO THAT FOR A SUSTAINED PERIOD OF TIME? I've tried that. But I can only do it for so long before I get so overwhelmed, I blow. I do everything by myself. I have sole responsibility for the children (even before we separated), the house, the bills, etc. I work 40 hours a week. The fact is, I have needs too! Sometimes it's just too much for one person to handle alone! I have an ADHD, elementary aged son and a very precocious and mischievous pre-schooler. Some days I honestly can't do it alone! To make matters worse, I don't have much family close enough (or healthy enough) to support me. Getting me-time is nearly impossible for me. I don't know what to do. I can see how what you're doing for your marriage is working and it makes sense. I just don't know how to do that! I would welcome your advice (others too!). I'm afraid that our marriage is closer to divorce than separation and I don't know how to reverse that.

Dear Jen

I'm sure that I am no one to be giving advice. I'm just running on faith and in all fairness it hasn't been that long. I've only quit whinning and began trying to repair this marriage a couple of months ago.
I also must tell you that I have also been prescribed Xanax, which I take when I feel I'm going to blow; when negative thoughts and/or the "Taker" start taking over. And so far, by resisting a confortation, even just a little while, I have been rewarded with him saying or doing something that lets me understand that it wasn't "personal".
Not taking it "personal" has become my mantra. I spent so long wondering why he would do this "to me." When the truth is he can't read my mind. I can't read his mind. We all create our own world or dream in our own minds. Our world is influenced by everything that has happened to us in the past and everything that has ever been said to us. Did we buy into it? Did we make it part of our being? When we take it personal we do. We think everything is about us. Pretty selfish, uhn?
I also discovered that while I'm taking everthing "personal" I am also making assumptions about what the other person is thinking, doing, planning, etc. When in fact I have no real way of knowing that unless I ask. (This is the hard part for me right now, because "asking" is definitely a Love Buster)
Again, Xanax helps me when I start assuming (negatively) what he is thinking or doing. I also printed certain concepts and states of marriage, etc. And when I start getting overwhelmed, I read and re-read the part that tell me "It can Happen" I can bring him back if I keep the Taker in check. He will fall in love with me again if I meet his important emotional needs. (Also hard for me because he won't cooperate with the readings, questionnaires, etc. - I've had to just guess.) I tried to put myself in his shoes, and tried to think about what he would need/want to be happy and content, what would make life better.
I have not neglected myself, however. Because if he decides that he wants to separate or divorce, I want to be okay. I was in such shock and panic that I was a long way from okay when this first came about. I've been learing to love myself. Trying to free myself of certain fears I had for so long, such as fear of rejection, fear of being alone, fear of not being loved. I've done a lot of soul searching and demon wrestling. I feel so much better about myself, I think this may also be having a positive influence on HIM.
So Jen, like I said before, I'm really no one to give advice, but what ever you do, you must take care of you. I had to ask myself "what would I do if I wasn't afraid?" Well pretty much everything I had been afraid of had already happened. I had to let it go and work on making myself strong. Work on ridding myself of what made me vunerable to such fears. And what I found out is by getting rid of the fears, I became "happy". I made myself happy. And the more I work on myself, reading, exercising (never had time before???)visiting, etc. The happier I get, the more at peace I become. I now KNOW that I will be okay no matter waht happens with our marriage. And all this (plus the Xanex) makes it easier not to Love Bust. So now I think the sieve is starting to clog and he now seems to be accepting deposits.
I hope something I said gives you hope, renews your faith. Because I feel I'm just running on blind faith.
Something else I did for a while was to consider, What if I died today, what if he died today. What would I want the last thing to remember be? Not something that I would have to feel guilty about the rest of my life, like complaining about what I thought he should be doing for me. I decided that if it were up to me, our last memories of each other will at least be pleasant if not loving. And than in our relationship, it appears that it is up to me, because he is pretty much following my lead, as in how he is treating me. (not the way I want him to be yet, but he's not love busting with rudeness), He's pleasant.
I'm rambling and this is too long. Don't lose faith. Work on you being happy. He can't make you happy-you have to. Find out how. Once you're happy, everthing else will be okay. LOL Tenbo

Hello,

I can understand your fustration, but hang in there. I am a Police Officer and I can understand his situation. When we signed up for this job we accepted the fact that we could be called on at any time and that we are never off(we are police officers 24/7.
You should sit him down and tell him you need one day with him. If he doesn't or can't make time, he may be living a double life. I say this because, if we go to our supervisor and explain the situation they will allow us to take a couple days off.

Hang in there

Paul

Hi all,

I just realised that I'm not the only one going through this obstacle in my M and this is just a small hurdle to more good years in my M.

I am also going through a stage in my M where my H told me one day (begining of Jul 03) that he doesn't have feelings for me anymore and finds it hard to see or talk to me. So he told me to move back to my mum's so that I can be with my son (and we can take time off to thing about the M).

Just last night, bumped into my H when I went back to my own home to clean up and do my laundry. He asked if I wanted to talk so I hang around (was running the Basic Concepts and Love Busters to boost my confidence while I was waiting for him). Didn't really had a thorough conversation, as he kept saying that he isn't very sure what he wanted at this point in time. I let him talked. Only asking questions when I wanted to know what are his needs.

The conversation was interrupted by his mum's phone call (she has been hysterical ever since she learnt about the incident).

He was angry with the parents for putting him in a spot. He is trapped trying to meet their needs and getting his own business done. He broke down and was cursing, all these while I just kept quiet (thinking at least he is talking to me and I'm the one listening to his woes). After the episode, he said he need to pick up something and left (after I asked him if I could stay over since it was late and I'll be working the next day).

He didn't come home till 3 plus in the morning (that was his way of telling me he is not comfortable seeing me and having me around). Felt a bit hurt but had to control my thoughts and try to act normal. Was asleep when he came back but woke at 4 am to see him sleeping already.

Thing that hurts most is the cold and cruel treatment that he gives me. But I know it's his way of telling me he is afraid and is in withdrawal and I have to hang in there.

I can't tell him about the basic concepts, but I did mentioned that feelings can be nurtured (my way of telling him that it can be restored) and asked him for some time.

I know it's going to be a long and difficult journey ahead. There will be times when people will ask me if my H is worth my time and effort. There will also be times when I question myself about the purpose of trying to save the M. But I know I'll have to persist and hope for the day when my H comes back to me...

Just good to know there are people who are sharing the experiences and I'm not the odd one.

thanks

Hi NHP,

Sorry you have to endure this too. This has to be the worst feeling and hardest thing anyone ever has to overcome. I lost my Mom to cancer 2 years ago, and I truly believe this is by far the worst. My heart goes out to you and everyone.
You sound alot like me-been reading alot and trying to learn what to do. Sounds like you are on track. Hang in and don't get discouraged, (the hard part for me). Even wtih all the positives, every tiny victory I should be rejoicing, I still have to spend a lot of energy staying "up". As you can tell from my previous posts my H is now letting me fulfill HIS needs, hey he even is starting to expect it. But still he's not willing to fill my most important needs. Yes, he's doing some little things here and there. (Too few-too far apart to make any deposits). This makes me feel used and unappreciated. I'm fighting hard ALL THE TIME to surpress these feeling. They will ruin everything.
In his words "We've been getting along so great these last few weeks." Yeh why not? His every need is met-Happily met. Can you tell my Taker is screaming at me. I just hope Taker doesn't take over my mouth. I'm trying so hard to put her back to sleep. I know if I can keep her in check, H and I can have a chance. He's truly talking to me again-no weird tension. I'd just feel better if he were willing to talk about the Concepts, but like your H, he's still not ready to hear it.
I probably should not have relied since I'm feeling kinda down today (don't really know why-hormonal?) who knows. So please don't let me poison any of your thinking. Just that if you are anything like me, even when its SO MUCH BETTER, even when it appears that its working and he's on his way back, you Taker will try to wreck it. Resist the taker, no matter how stupid or used you feel. The concepts are like formulas, they must be worked exactly (I think - could be wrong) to work. And it only makes sense that to bring someone out of withdrawal, letting the Taker fight, whine or make demands won't do it.
Stay in touch, let me know what works-I'll do the same. (Especially if you figure out how to get him to want you as his rec companion) I believe if I could jump this hurdle, I'd feel 95% there.
Stay focused - remember you goal. Hope to talk to you soon. Tenbo

Hi tenbo,

Hey, I just hit depression today.

Is still staying at my mum's place with my son and feel very helpless that I have to rely on my parents. Starting to feel angry with everyone around me.

Am thinking if I should be moving back home next month to put my Plan A into proper action, just to show him that I'm determined to change while waiting for him to make a decision.

It's really very heart breaking that someone that you love is doing this to you, ignoring and avoiding you.

Worse part is that he has not seen his son for the whole 3 weeks I was away, not even asked to see him. Guess by avoiding, he feels that he won't feel guilty.

Feeling a little doubtful about myself and a better strategy to implement the plan.

Oh NHP,

So sad to hear about the depression. I had to get help from a Dr. Xanax is wonderful. When all I can do is cry, when everything I look at makes tears well. Anyway its wonderful, and I don't have to take all the time, not even everyday, I've even gone a week without any. The best part was it let me sleep. I went over a month without sleep. I was a wreck. I am not an advocate for pills or substances, but I can think now. I can clear my mind and soul of the pain and think about what is best.
Unlike the two of you, we stayed in the same house, same bed. I'm not sure that I'd be making any headway at all if we had separated. (makes it too easy to give up) Plus, if he didn't have to see me daily, he would not be able to see how I've changed and how I've stopped Love Busting, how it is for real, not just me saying what I think he wants to hear. You know actions speak louder than words.
Which is why he encourages me sometimes. Those moments, those little things is what I try to hold onto each day, especially the days he acts like he can't stand the sight of me. (which I'm trying real hard not to take personal-with his hours, the cases he has, etc.etc.-I'd probably be awful to be around) But sometimes when he looks at me, I see love. He reaches for me now and then. He initiates sex at least 3 times a week. He comes home so proud wanting to share his accomplishments with me. And sometimes the kisses are real. I run these scenes over and over, to keep myself up; to remind me that the concepts are working, just takes time.
From my point of view, from what I've gone through. It took a month after I quit crying, pleading, looking sad/depressed, etc. of meeting his needs to no avail, before he started accepting deposits. I did tell him one time, after a month of me being perfect (scared me to death-thought I love busted) something to the fact that whatever was going on with him was in his head, that I didn't deserve to be treated the way he was treating me, that I was tired of the weird coolness, that I was not that bad a person and deserved better than he was treating me. Only this wasn't face to face. He had hung up on me or lost service (very possible in these hills) but I accused him of hanging up and told him off on his voice mail.
He called many hours later, gentle voice and told me he heard my message. I said well, I apologize for how I reacted but not for what I felt or said. He said well I'll be home in about an hour. We never talked about it, or anything else relating to us, but things have been different-he's trying. He really is trying. Yes I hope for more, but from the state of withdrawal I had pushed him, I'm thrilled with trying.
I'm not saying tell him off, but don't let him see you depressed or in any mood other than someone he would want to spend time with. If you were home you could meet his EN, at least the ones you think are important to him. I say you have to guess because he sounds like mine and won't even consider counseling or any help of the sort. You will just have to show him through your actions, careful not to cling. And for you sake, never expect anything. If loving him makes you happy, then love him, but don't expect anything. No disappointment that way.
Someone told me its up and down, up and down. I can't tell you how true that statement is. Bask in the up (good) but don't expect it to last.
You have to find something that makes you happy. Something (within yourself) that will keep you happy no matter what. Gotta go, Tenbo

Hi tenbo,

Good to hear your are making progress.

Thing is he has been saying that he needs time and space to think, that was why he suggested I moved back to my mum's.

But now that it's almost been a month, i'm contemplating moving back slowly, maybe once a week next month. However, I would have to be mentally prepared to be avoided, ie, he will stay away till the wee hours in the morning and is afraid that he will move out. Also, I would need to consider if I should let him know that I'll be home on certain days (and risk him avoiding me on those days). I also do not want to be accused of not giving him sufficient time and space. So I'm so confused.

I know that I have to be home to let him see the changes, and keep the connectivity. But I have so many questions that I'm afraid of LB-ing him. Any suggestions?

Just today, I was so tempted to contact him. So I sent him a mobile phone message talking about the weather. Sounds crazy right?

Hi NHP

I am not qualified to give anyone advice, except read and re-read everything on this site.

As hard as this ordeal has been on me, I probably have had it easier than most. My H and I have always gotten along, best friends, no screaming or intentional hurtful things. So part of our progress can be summed up to us being civil to each other. I appealed to his cilvility.

We talked about how neither of us could afford to be on our own yet, that it was going to be months. We agreed that we didn't want things to get ugly and we didn't want to hate each other. I told him that splitting without actively trying would cause me to second guess and always have doubts. So why not for the time we are trapped (his words) together, why not try to turn it around. Give it our best. That way if it don't work out, I can go on with my life knowing I gave it my best, that we tried, really tried, no regrets. It made sense to him, and he is trying. Sometimes, if I didn't know and have it on the tip of my brain, we almost seem normal again. Uh? Maybe I should try to get it off my brain, you know dream a new dream. Dream a dream where our marriage is stronger than ever, forget it's messed up right now. Because really, other than me knowing he doesn't love me, (he won't say it), he doesn't treat me any worse. I was happy before, ignorant but happy. Now I'm aware. I can be even happier. I think you too.

Make sure your mind is clear. Make sure you are thinking straight. And do what you think is right. Ask yourself, "What would you do if your were not afraid?" Prays for you, Tenbo

Hi tenbo,

Good to hear from you. I think it's good to know that someone out there is going through the same things.

Went to work today feeling more confident about myself. Think I should go shopping and get some nice stuff (have lost some weight in these 3 weeks). Maybe get some nice colours and start wearing make-up (have always neglected this area, out of laziness I guess).

Think I should start taking up swimming lessons so that we can go swimming together in future (my husband likes to swim, and this gives us a common activity to do together).

Have been thinking of taking belly dancing lessons, so signed up for a 2 months course (hopefully, it helps tone the body).

Think I should start moving out of my comfort zone and show him that I'm changing. But I have to do it slowly.

Patience is the name of the game.

Good luck to you...

NHP

Good to hear you're feeling good. Your current plans sound awesome; wish I could belly dance. New clothes and makeup always helps. Who knows, attractiveness may be one of his important EN. All I can say is "You go Girl!" and Good luck to you too.
Tenbo

hi tenbo,

he sent me an email yesterday to say that he has no desire for anything and me. He didn't mention Divorce but he just say he is disappointed and tired mentally of life itself. And he feels that he cannot bring himself to be intimate with me.

I'm a little shock, but I believe that it has to do with his current depression. Will seek more help amybe from Dr Harley himself.

What do you think?

NHP

Ouch! By all means get some REAL help. Dr Harley for sure. Stay strong. He did not mention divorce (mine did). Sounds like in extreme withdrawal and like you said depressed.

Under Emotional Needs you can also get help from senior members. I got some helpful threads from "Lady-Sheep" and read some very useful info from "Sweet Annie" and a couple of others.

So if you can get to a counselor right away, go to the Emotional Needs forum. You can even find my old thread there and see who all answered me. And then post for them to help you, I'm as new to this as you are. God Bless You. Tenbo

Hi tenbo,

At least I have a friend here to give me some support. All my friends and relatives have told me to ditched this heartless man. But deep down inside, I think the man I love is still there. So the more people tell me to ditch him, I become more resolute to stand by him (but have to go through this emotional roller coaster ride).

I am posting my problem to Cerri, she gives very good advice. I feel so helpless. I don't know how I should handle this situation.

thanks for being here...

hi NHP

So glad to hear you found someone who can give you good advice cause I sure don't know what I'm doing, going to do, or should be thinking. I keep telling myself "be patient."

You see, no matter how polite he is, it still doesn't FEEl right. I can't stand it. I miss my husband so bad. I just want to feel close to him, but there's this wall or something I can't get past/through.

I miss having someone to care about me. I miss having someone to share thinks with. How long will this take? I thought I could last as long as it takes provided that there is hope, but sometimes I feel so empty and alone, I don't know how long I can actually do this. But then I remind myself that "we're worth it." So I try to hold it together.

I'm really having a hard time tonight. He came home for Supper and stayed a while, we talked. His favorite aunt in another state is having a surprise birthday party in October. I suggested that we should go. To my pleasant surprise he agreed. Then to my shock, he stated that he had already taken that whole week off. (when did he do this? when was he going to tell me? Did the family fit into his plans for this week? Am I over reacting?) So since he had not told me that he didn't want me to go with him to his Aunt's BD party (a month ago he would have), I asked if he could take the day off on our anniversary 9/19. He shrugged, and talked about how he couldn't get Labor Day off, someon had beat him to it and some other stuff I didn't quite follow. So I said Just ask to have the evening off, our Anniv is on a weekend day this year. Again he shrugged. So I asked point blank, "Don't you WANT to do somthing for our Anniversary?" Again a shrug and a "I don't know."

I was crushed. Still am. Don't know what to think. My Taker is screaming at me LOUD, now. All I could do was pick up my laptop and go to work on a work project. I couldn't say anything, knew I would LB. And obviously I can't afford that. He sends me so many conflicting messages, it makes me crazy.

It was almost easier when he didn't want a thing from me; I knew where I stood. But now, he wants me to meet his needs, seems sincerely grateful that I do, is fun and pleasant to be around, asks me to meet his needs and every now and then is willing to meet some of my needs when I ask, but I always have to ask. Sometimes he simply says "no." Point blank "No." He's making me crazy. I just want him back. I can see and hear him sometimes. I just want him back.

Okay, I've rattled on enough for one day. Let me know how you manage to hold it together. Hearing from you helps. Praying things get better for you. Tenbo

hi tenbo,

So sorry to hear about how you are feeling. I'm also not making much progress.

I love busted big time over the weekend. Made him angry that I was talking to a few people. He called me to confront and asked me what I have been telling people....like you, I was crushed.
He sounds so adamant about not trying to get back together, I told him that I still love the person inside this angry man. I thought I better leave him alone for this month, don't call him or people around him. Everything I do seems to irritate him at this moment.

Worse thing is I told the brother that I will not divorce my H and he told my H <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> So I told my H that yes I will not agree to a divorce (was just trying to make a stand in this conflict). He didn't seem to respond.

I asked him if he was suffering from depression? He said only when he is not working (he seems to throw himself into his work). And he said he can work late and have dinner with friends, his brother or sometimes by himself. So I added that he can ask me for dinner. And he said, "I have nothing to say to you."

I also would like to move back home but I know that ultimately he will shift out and he has no where to go, and I cannot bear to do that to him.

I'm also thinking very hard how to show him that I have changed, guess that by not calling him leaving him alone, I'm showing that I'm independent....I'm so lost and confused right now.

Like you, I miss him alot. Can't understand how he can turn into a monster <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> He can really be cruel sometimes and it breaks my heart, really bad. Just know that love, patience and prayers will solve all problems.

Hey, will always be here for you, ok? Vent yourself to me here and I'll always be listening although I don't have all the answers.

NHP Hello

I feel so guilty for all the whining I was doing yesterday when I'm not having it near as rough as you. I was over reacting??? He came back a couple of hours later, took the rest of the night off, watch a moveie with me, talked and made love. Yeh, this time I am going to say "made love" not had sex. It was different than the past few weeks. So I apologize for all my whining. But thanks I will vent to you. Because like you I found out that talking to family or friends will only compound the problem.

However, I have it easier than you. We are still in the same house, carrying on (to the outside) like nothing has changed. You, however have to listen to advise whether you want it or not and have people prying and asking questions all the time. Then you have to weigh and judge, Do they want to help? or Are they judging? Just being curious for gossip sake? etc.

I think you are right about leaving him alone for a while, but you two might need to agree on what to tell and who to tell, so that there is no way he can get upset about you talking about private business. And you will have to answer questions or at least say something to shut up the questions as long as you live apart. But that's just MY opinion.

And of course, I don't have a clue about how to approach him on the matter. Maybe just be ready with it the next time he HAS to contact you about something; bills, insurance, child, meds, family, I don't know, but surely there is something he will have to come to you for.

Also I've been looking under Emotional Needs for your post. Ask for help there, ( there will be lots of questions about an affair, but that doesn't mean he's had one just because they ask) you will get a lot more answers, lot of different points of view, and lots of advice to weigh. They will give you lots to think about for yourself, who you are and where you want to be.

Likewise, vent to me anytime. No answers but glad to listen. Lots of Luck Tenbo

Hi tenbo,

Good to hear you are making progress. Doesn't that feel good! Just make sure you don't fall into the roller coaster trap (guess you know what I mean).

Actually, I'm quite glad to be away from my H, because every contact that we make seems to end in an argument (and this is not good, so I have decided to stop calling, just drop emails of encouragements with Gods teachings).

Guess I have resolved to pick up the other pieces of my life and enjoy the things I have been missing after I got married. Anyway, not sure how long it will take him to come out of his fog, so it is really a test of my patience. Moreover, doubt his family is going to give him peace for awhile, so I better keep a low profile <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Spoke to a pastor who prayed for me and gave me strength to pray for myself and my H. There is also a website mentioned in MB that has lots of prayers and about how God restores marriages. I think it's www.rejoiceministries.com. Quite inspirational.

Hope that things will pick up on your side and HANG IN THERE!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

HI NHP

I do feel pretty good Right-Now, enjoying it while it lasts. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Sounds like you are on the right track now. Take care of and change yourself. That is if there is something you want to change. Like you I read every site, etc. I could find. Also from this site, I printed and read everyday and everynight, "A Summary of Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts," "The Third State of Mind: Withdrawal," and "How One Spouse Can Lead the other Back to Intimacy." I just keep reading for encouragement and to know what to do and how to do it.

Then to help me change, I read "The Four Agreements" by Don Miguel Ruiz. It's common sense, very deep, but still common sense. So if you are ready to hear and become aware, you can improve your own state of happiness (peace). And I found that when I got here, H started to talk to me again and spend more and more time.

This book made me aware of the roots of my attitudes and behaviors that I've wanted to eliminate for years. The principles used to overcome my negatives help me work the concepts and help me not to LB. I don't know if I could have gotten tis far without changing myself (behaviors and attitudes). Stay strong.
P.S. How's the belly dancing? Tenbo

Hi Tenbo,

Good to hear that things are working out for you. Keep those positive thoughts, ok?

Belly dancing classes have been postphoned, guess they didn't have enough students to start a class. Waiting for them to inform me when classes will start.

Currently, I am learning to be a Christian. I do not use to have a religion but after this incident, thought I should give myself a chance to know God and see if it will build stronger foundations for the family. I have met a pastor who has given me very positive feedback that my H is suffering from depression. So I am in better control of my emotions and able to manage my reactivity to things. And I feel more peace since I put my trust in God that He will lead the way for me.

It's 12 am over here and I'm wondering if my H is home and how is he doing. Not sure if he is metally stable; because I think the mum is still calling him up and he is still avoiding her. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Only thing I can do now is to keep praying for him (he gets reactive when he sees or hears me).

tenbo:Hve been reading your postings. I have a similar problem - been married almost 20 years and he says he is not interested in me any more. He has convinced himself that i cheated on him over a year ago. I did not and would not ever cheat on him. I asked him to try to work things out - it's been a week not very cordial to me every day but i can take that. Your story gives me new hope that i am doing the right thing. I love him very much and want to spend the rest of my days with him and no one else. I am trying to implement some of the things i am reading. Thanks for your inspiration

Tenbo: Could also use some advise for the bedroom. Like you we still sleep in the same room. Any suggestions on what i might to to entice more than sleep?

K57Mo Hello,

It saddens me to know there are so many suffering from the same thing, but glad to talk to you.

My only advice to you about the bedroom is, YOU know what he likes and how he likes it. For instance, maybe you might just "go down" on him without any warning. For most men its hard to resist. But you are the only one that knows what he won't or can't say "no" to. I always heard men like their women to "take" them; found it real sexy. Seems to be true for mine.

For a while with my H it was just sex, no foreplay, no real intimacy, just sex. Then he gradually started to become considerate, one little thing at a time, (offering me a towel or drink after). But I had to grit and bear it for a long time, sex without much touching or kissing and then he'd just roll over. I felt used and hated it, but hoped it might be in the right direction because I know SF would be one of his most important ENs if I could ever get him to consider hearing about MB or Dr. Harley.

So think about your man, what he likes the most and don't get your feeling hurt when he just kinda uses you and maybe even act weird later, (not even look you in the eyes for a coulpe of days; mine said he felt guilty because he didn't love me). So I validated his feelings, by telling him I knew he didn't feel the same about me, but since things were so tense and strange, that the sex had help relax me; eased the frustration and I didn't think it meant anything but sex. And if it was Okay with him, then I'd like to continue so that we could stay faithful to each other, just in case things work out, there won't be anything (like an affair) that we couldn't take back.

This seemed to take the pressure off and he began to act more natural around me; initiating sex himself.

Stay strong, stay positive and go get him. Tenbo

NHP

Hi, I was reading your post and got a little confused. You said he was avoiding a call from Mum. Are you saying that everyone, Mum, brother and others are interfering with the two of you?

If this is true, that will be part of the trouble; they are keeping him on the defensive ALL the time. He never gets to relax and just think without trying to justify his actions, which naturally he has to be right and you wrong. He's always going to be short with you because he is continually defending himself.

I'll shut up now, may be way off base. Talk to you later. Tenbo

Hi, I am so sorry you are going through this. I am going through something similar to your situation. I pray that everything works out for you both. I know this can feel real depressing and all, it looks like you still love him. If you would like to email me sometime and talk on instant messenger, I think we both need a ear. I am in so much pain right now, I have been like an emotional roller coaster for weeks now. My situation is that my fiancee left me. I am on the verge of losing my home etc. I am so hurt, but to be honest I have been somewhat ignorant on our relationship for the past 2 years, now I am paying for it. He left me because he couldn't take it anymore with my kids etc. This is what I am left with. The thing that hurts the most is that he still calls me and tells me that he still misses me and cares for me, what am I suppose to think here? He said he would never come back to this house. He calls me in the middle of the night and says to me "I miss you and I love you". Keep me posted on what's going on with you. Good Luck.

tenbo: thanks for your words of encouragement. Just what I was thinking. Also think he is having some sort of mid-life crisis. Just doesn't seem to be happy about his life. Am waiting for the right opportunity to "strike" but think you are right. I think it is a positive sign that he didn't leave, I think he does care about his family and is just frustrated. You should know we have had other assorted problems in our 20 plus years and always seemed to get through them. The night he told me he wanted to start a new life I reminded him of this and he had no reply. I look for small signs everyday that there is hope, for instance, last week he went out with a friend from work for beers, he put his wedding ring on (which he does not wear for work - does manual labor). My main problem seems to be that I cannot convince him that I have never cheated on him, I think this is something that he will have to realize himself - just wish i could speed this up. I don't think I will ever give up on "us" but I am trying to be strong, not combative and do small things to make him see how much i love him. I am a fighter (I fight for what I want)and not ready to give up. Thanks for your advice it is nice to have someone that understands. I think we are both of the nature not to give up on what we want and believe is right. Thanks again, you have given me hope. I'm not overly religious anymore but I do pray for all of us going through this and know God will give us strength.

Tenbo: Brief update - good night last night - he initiated - think things are back on the right track - kissed me and told me he loved me this morning before work. Definitely going in the right direction. Hang in there!!!

KMO, You go Girl! You give us all hope. I can't wait to hear "I love you." thanks for the update.

Angel Hi,
Yes I'd be interested in talking to you on email. I do love him and I'm not willing to let our marriage go. Can use all the help I can get. I'm not chat room savy or anything. So you'll have to get back and let me know what to do. Stay strong. tenbo

KMO
I just can't get over how happy your post made ME. That is just too cool. I can't quit smiling. You made my day. Thanks again. Tenbo

Tenbo: Have not heard from you recently. Hope things are going well. So far, so good at our house. Don't really know what changed his mind, but I do know that I haven't gone back. I mean that the changes I made after his little announcement are things I had stopped caring about too much ( appearance etc. ) I do think he was a little depressed, mid-life crisis type, and that contributed to his decision. The only advice I can honestly give it to hang in there. He still lives there for a reason and even he is probably not sure what he feels, but most likely it seems that he does still love you or he would have left. I have a hard time believing that I came to a web site for help, but I was pretty desperate and willing to learn anything that would help me. It helped that somewhere out there someone else felt the same as I did. I hope and pray that your marriage survives, I can see that is what you want. I now realize that marriage is a work in progress - always. So as you said to me, Stay Strong and go get him. Let me know!

KMO Hello

I've been so busy, My company is training volunteers in two different counties right now, and we have to train at night and on saturdays.

I'm so glad to hear things are going good-great for you. I really can't complain here. The only thing missing are the words "I love You."

If I wasn't so insecure, because I thought he loved me before, but when he made his announcement, he said he had felt that way for a long time; I had no clue. Well....no clue he didn't love me, knew something was wrong, I blamed it on work, deaths and illnesses, etc; but never that he didn't actually love me.

In fact, things between us SEEM better now than they have in a long time, long time; just no verbal affirmation. I think maybe he wants to make sure "my changes" (attitude/behavior) are for real and here to stay. I Love Busted all the time regarding a job he loves. I had been very selfish, only caring how I felt, etc. etc. I was so ashamed when I finally took a good look at myself. I couldn't have been ANY fun to be around, especially as tired and stressed as he had to be. But I do now take full responsibility for myself and won't go back; so ashamed I was there before.

But because of how he is, so honest and honorable, mostly black and white, no gray. I know that He won't tell me until he is absolutely sure about how he feels about everything. And like your H, I think he was having some depression and a touch of MLC; has him confused about what he wants. But he seems so happy NOW, can't believe I was making him so miserable. After reading so much in this forum, I have to say, its ONLY been about 3 months; we've come a long way in a short time, no matter how long is seems to me, (UGH!!)Talk to you later. Tenbo

Hi Tenbo: Haven't heard from you for a while, just thought I'd check in. Things are going ok - I say ok because I would like them to be better, but think it will take time. I still feel very insecure about everything. He still says he loves me when he goes to work in the morning, but still seems moody and quiet. He won't open up and tell me what's bothering him. Does not want to be intimate but does not mind a hug and kiss, we even cuddled in the hot tub last weekend. There is a problem with intimacy and I don't want to put any un-do pressure on him but I do miss that. Hope things are going well for you. Just wanted to let you know I think about ways for us to get through this all the time. Think the way we are handling this is right - give them space but let them know we still love them. Hope to hear from you soon.

k

Hi KMO,

Yes, I definetly believe we are doing the right thing. I also believe it is going to take a long time; for the life of me I can't figure out why so long. But, like everyone told me in the beginning, there will be ups and downs. But if we are able to keep the TAKER in check, we can get them back.

I looked up some stuff on depression the other day, my H fits it to a "t". They say men exhibit symptoms differently than what we normally look for. Their symptoms are more socially acceptable; working excessive long hours, anger, irritable, needs to be "top dog", attacks when feels hurt, and several others that fit him so well lately. Someone here told me that he may be suffering from a midlife crisis, and from what I can read about this and depression, he and his moods will be completely unpredictable. But eventually it WILL be over.

For now we just have to love them, no matter how hard they make it or how used you feel, and make them feel safe with us. We have to be the most comfortable, peaceful and fun place they can find. We have to be someone they want to be with, so that when their heads aren't filled with gunk, they want to be with us. Yes, we are doing the right thing. Hang Strong. Talk to you soon.
Tenbo

i do not wish to interrupt your discussion rudely but, I am in a similar situation. My wife of 5 years ( w/4yo son) has been giving me signs and dropping hints that she was unhappy for about 18 months. I am guilty of not meeting any of her most important emotional needs. Hind-Sight is 20/20 as they say and when she didn't come home one night and then another night, I got a big eyeopener! We have had a few blowouts and I have agreed to change my ways but, I only did what it took to appease her. This time it is different, I have hit rock bottom and my past-vision is crystal clear. I have shifted back into the State of Intimacy and she came home this past friday. We scheduled an appointment with a conselor monday and spent the weekend as a family. I probably pushed a little too hard because I wanted her to know that I was aware of alot of my improper actions and inactions but, I think that this was detrimental to my cause. My wife is in a total state of withdrawl and she told the conselor that she was 90 percent sure that she wanted a divorce. the conselor saw the 10 percent and advised that we not separate and workout our problems with our needs. He commented that most of the time Separation is the first step to divorce. After we left, I walked her to her car and she told me that she was leaving. I all but begged her to stay. I promised and swore that she would not regret giving me a second chance. She finally conceded and said that she would think about it. This weighed heavily on me because it was a selfish demand. I reconsidered and decided for the sake of our son that I would move out until she was ready. I have loved my wife for 13 years and been married for 5 years... Before our problems started, She was my best friend my only friend. I value her and our family more than anything else. I want desparately for her to crack her heart open a little so that my love can reach her but, I keep hearing that i need to leave her alone. I am fearful that she will forget me rather than let her love flow again.

opinions??

I didn't give you

Dear James,

I know how awful this is; complete withdrawal is tough, but hang in there. You can get her back if you are willing to feel like a doormat for a while. First-Do you know what her most important emotional needs are? Sounds like you've read everything here and know what you have to do. Something that helped me, was the "180" I read about in someone else's thread in the Emotional Needs Forum.

If you aren't familiar with it, go there and ask for help. (ask for instructions with the 180) It helped me take the pressure of my H and myself. We still aren't right but we are so much better.

Just no Love Busting. It will be a while before she will even accept Love Units, even with you doing everything right. So very important-No Love Busting. Also No needy, or pleading behavior, and please no jealous outbursts. These are my only opinions, hope it helps. The Concepts here do work, but you have to work them, stay positive and work on yourself. Pay special attention to your child, very important the child not suffer or worry because of what you two are going through. Depending on age, kids will come up with the darnest thing to think, and they will blame themselves and worry about it all. Be there. Being a good, loving, nurturing Father may also help melt W's heart. But watch your motives, because they will become transparent if not at first. So stay strong and good luck to you.
Tenbo

James:

Sorry haven't post to you, but Tenbo said it all. I agree - NO LB'S, NO PLEADING, NO BEGGING.
Be strong - hang in there - it takes time.

Tenbo:

Things are going pretty well - no LB - time - it feels like forever - only been 3 weeks.

Have a good weekend Both of you

James:

Someone post the 180 list under negotiating in Marriage forum. Please read - it really does work.

KMO

Just wanted to say Hi. Hope you have a great weekend. Don't know about here, my H has to work the entire time and rain is forcasted. Still smiling though.

P.S. Wrecked car today. (Okay, not hurt, only pride-feel pretty stupid) H VERY understanding; said all the right things, etc. Called several times to check on me. I'm so confused about how he treats me. He acts as though he relly cares or loves me. However, if I ask, he informs me that he does not love me, cares as a friend only.

But he hugs me, he kisses me, we make love. What does it mean? State of Conflict, instead of Withdrawal?

Although he rarely shows me affection, he wants and almosts expects affection from me. For instance, lay down and put his head in my lap for me to rub/caress his head. He waits lingers and waits for me to kiss/hug him bye when he leaves. He days BYE, and just stand there waiting. Why doesn't he come and kiss me when he's ready to leave? Am I too available? I'm so confused. I don't know if I'm thinking logically or if it's the TAKER.

I tend to overthink my situation all the time. I need an objective eye/ear that can tell me when I'm creating trouble for myself by thinking too much. Dazed and confused. Tenbo

Dear Tenbo,

Sorry about your car accident. Hope you are able to be kind to yourself, as you seem to be under stress.

There are some books on strategies to improve depressive conditions without pharmacueticals. You might try to incorporate some of the strategies into your routines with your husband. I believe one is to point out little positive things about the surrondings.

The family strategies book I am reading, Gerald Patterson, 1987, discusses the importance of not asking for too much from a family member, and being able to give family members space when they seem to be striking out at us.

You seem to give considerable weight to your husband's words on Love vs. Friendship. I have recently better understood the Bible's admonition against adultery by reading Song of Songs. Many pages separate the 10 commandments from Song of Songs, but I believe that the Bible teaches that a wife can make it easier, or more difficult, for her husband to be true. It is more Godly for the wife to find what assists her husband to best withstand the temptations of straying.

Earlier you said you regretted some of the things you had said to your husband. I suggest you try to find peace, in achieving the feeling that you have tried to do extra, to acheive the fidelity you desire from H, to make up for any such words.

God bless,

Quipper
Married 28 years and still struggling

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by tenbo:
<strong>I feel I'm going crazy. two months ago my husband of 9 years and I had a late night discussion (not even a fight) because I was upset that I never get to see him. He's a county cop, works almost 24-7. He sleeps, gets up and goes to work. comes home between 2:30 and 5:30am. I work days. I wanted him to take some time off so we could do something. he said he couldn't because they are short handed (its been this way for a year now) I asked that he work something out. He felt I was being unreasonable, used a tone I took offense to and said some smarta**ed things. after a while I decided that I wasn't important to him and suggested that he go stay somewhere else for a while. I was hurting regretted it almost immediately, but didn't know what else to do. He relunctly agreed and made arrangements. that evening when I got home i called him at work and told him that I was sorry, just too frustrated and that I didn't want him to leave, that I loved him and would be happy if I got to see him sometime. He agreed to come home, but when he did he informed me that he didn't love me anymore. that he only felt for me like a friend and he didn't think he wanted to be married anymore. All very shocking to me because we have always been so happy, so in love, so affectionate, even earlier before the discussion. Now for the last two months, after reading everything on this site and trying to be patient. he still won't even kiss me. we still sleep in the same bed. we've made love (had sex) a few times (kissing sometimes) he says he doesn't feel anything for me. He has been coming home for dinner most nights, work permitting. I've printed things off for him because he thinks it's hopeless and that he can never love me again. its so obvious that he tries to ignore me. He acts like he will get cooties if he touches me. But we have had sex 1 -2 times each week. he says "bye" as he goes back to work after eating, hesitates like he wants to kiss me or me kiss him, but he refuses to make a move. I go and kiss him - he doesn't kiss back. I've been trying so hard to stay positive, but its getting harder. two nights ago I get up at 3:30am to talk to him. he tells me again that he doesn't feel anything for me, he wants to leave, but feels traped because of our finances-neither one of us can afford to be on our own right now. He says he resents me trying to get him to look at this site and that I am not going to force him to try and make this work. he afraid to try because he said he's been trying for 4 years and he still don't love me. I open up about my fears that caused me to ask him to leave and asked for forgiveness. He states again that he doesn't care for me except as a friend. then he initates sex before I leave for work. now today he gets the evening off and he leaves to go to a rodeo in another town. He's had a couple of other days off here and there the last couple of months and he spends them in another town. I want him to have time off and to de-stress because of his job he needs it bad. but I can't stand it that he won't spend 1 hour with me or our son. He won't even talk long enough to make a joint agreement. He won't even look at the emotional needs assessment. Nothing. he lets me meet some of his needs but he refuses to meet any of mine or even conside my feelings about anything. Am I wasting my time. Or is more time need? a different strategy? I'm lost. Please help me. I don't know what to trust. we've always got along great. No real problems except when he works, he pours all of himself into it. I can wait this out if he will ever come around, we're worth it. but I can't tell if he ever will and I don't think we can get it back if he never becomes willing to help me work at it. Please help, tenbo</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

[QUOTE]Originally posted by tenbo:
[QB]I feel I'm going crazy. two months ago my husband

Dear feeling helpless: I HAVE BEEN THERE. Wished someone would have told me the following: Leave him alone. Just focus on changing yourself--even if you think you are perfect. As St. Augustine said, "Our soul will NOT rest until it rests in Him." Your husband will want to be around you when you are happy--really happy. You will be a magnet. You MUST NOT force him to be the source of your happiness. Women make that mistake ALL OF THE TIME.
If you are Catholic, even if you are not, go spend time in front of the Blessed Sacrament--all by yourself. Let that indescribable peace fill your soul and heart to overflowing. Learn to LISTEN for HIS voice. YOU WILL FIND INCOMPREHENSIBLE JOY and everyone--including your husband will want to be around you.

THis is advice from a once miserable soul who had a husband who hated her and she hated him (advised by counselors to get a divorce--"too much animosity between us) and NOW--(it did not happen overnight)--am in love with that same husband. He grabs my hand every night and every morning. I still marvel at how our Creator transformed our marriage--but I had to be a willing partner with God.

Dear Q & Sayno

Thanks for your thoughts. Lots of wisdom in your words. I've been trying exactly what you both said. I have been concentrating on me, (I had a real eye opener about myself) and on taking care of my H. He works very long hours at a high stress job; he needs my support not complaints. I learned my lesson and it seems to be taking forever for him to believe my changes are for real. However, for all my whining in my earlier post, things are good with us. He is no longer sure he wants to leave-not sure he wants to stay, but at least not sure he wants to leave. Great improvement from early summer. I know we'll make it.
But please feel free to keep tabs on me, and when I start sounding out-of-sorts, (and I will from time to time - needing to vent) line me out and reel me back in. You all are the only people I can talk to. Thanks for being there (here).
tenbo

Hi Tenbo:

Hope you are feeling better. We had a very good weekend except for the fact that it rained all weekend. Things keep improving and in fact we have made some plans to celebrate our 20th ann. We usually just go out to dinner- normally take the kids - but thought it would be nice just the two of us. I still feel very tentative about everything - probably will for some time - but H assures me he loves me and does not want to leave. Sounds like yours is still undecided - hang in there - maybe he doesn't want to admit he was wrong about leaving. You never know what is going through their minds. Anyway, vent as often as needed - it does the soul good just to get it out. Hang in there - Stay strong!!!

K57mo

KMO Hi,

I am feeling better, thanks. It appears I will have a spaz-attack every couple of weeks; guess I'm too impatient. I DO believe he wants to stay more than he wants to go, if he still wants to go. Like you, if I weren't so tentative, I'd be blissfully happy; everything really is good. Only no verbal confirmation from him. I keep telling myself that actions speak louder than words anyway.
WOW, look at you. The 20th. Congrats. Sounds like you two are on the right track. Trust it. And despite all my whinning, I really do trust it.
Gotta go, good hearing from you and that things are going so well. See you in a couple of days. Stay Strong!!! Tenbo

Tenbo:

Thought I'd post once more before the weekend. Things seem pretty normal at home - made hotel reservations for next saturday for our anniversary celebration - gave H details and he seemed pleased. I agree with you that actions speak louder than words and after reading different posts on this web site think that we don't have it too bad or that things could be worse. Anyway, have a good weekend. Talk to you soon. Hang in there girl!!