hello,
I need some advise on what I should do. My wife and I have been together for over 3 yrs and married for 1 1/2 yrs. We knew each other in high school and meet again 12yrs later. My problem is she is very insecure. She mad if there is a women she believes is better looking then her on tv or if one is any where around us. She believes I am looking at them and wishing I was with them (which is never the case). But my major problem is we meet at a local bar where we bi=oth had dated other people. I have made it a point not to talk to any of my exes or any other female for that matter. She on the other hand insists on being friends with 2 of her exes that still frequent the bar, even though she knows that I did not like these people even before we were a couple. I have stated my displeasure many times and we have had fights about it. This past weekend we were at the bar and an ex of mine was walking by me and just said hi and asked how I was(she has recently married also). Well my wife got all pissed off and started an arguement with me in the parking lot. Later in the evening I had been sitting at a tble talking to a male friend and got up to use the bathroom, on my way I see my wife grabbing one of her exes by the arm and pulling him to her to talk to him. I went to the4 bathroom and then headed to the door to leave without saying a word to my wife. Wel she saw me and followed me out. I went to my car to get in and she started grabbing me trying to stop me. As I got into the car she climbed in onto my lap, I proceeded to tell her I was done and did not wwant to argue about it again. As I drove home she keept telling me to stop and she didn't want me to leave. When she figured out I was not going to she open the car door as if she was going to jump from it. I grabbed her arm to hold her in until I could stop. SHe got out and told me to leave her on the side of the road. I talked her back into the car and we went home. After talking about what happened she told me she was just telling the guy to leave me alone because he was going to confront me to see why I dont like him and why I dont want her talking to him. This made me realize that she had already talked to him earlier in the night behind my back. Now I dont know if I can trust her anymore. She says she doesnt see why I get upset over her talking to these guys, but if I ever talk to another women ex or not she get extreemly upset. My mind and sense is telling me to leave before things get worse but I'm scared to do so for some reason. Can someone give me some advise. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Hello,

I think I have maybe the answer to your question.
Your wife flirts extensively with other males and encourages their response to her. She therefore figures when you talk to your ex's then you must be doing the same thing. It really is classic behavior for a cheater. Most cheaters believe that everybody else thinks and acts the way they do. It really is fascinating to observe. So often one spouse will accuse the other spouse of cheating and it turns out it reality is the first spouse that is actually cheating.
Your wife is probably projecting her cheating behavior on you because she is doing it and so therfore believe that you must be doing it also. The fact that she wants you to accept her flirting with other men and refuses to allow you to even say hello to your former female friends says a great deal. She does not trust you because she knows she is not trustworthy and projects this on you. If your wife feels comfortable to flirt with other men and disrespect you this way in front of you; then one can only imagine what she is doing when you are not able to be with her.
In short, her insecurity about you is a reflection on herself and her own behavior toward other men. I think you are in for a world of pain with her attitude and it will lead to a lot of drama and heartache. I wish you luck.

Dear Hugh,

Much of what Bryan says is something you should consider. Projection is the psychological concept of what a person sees from his own perspective is what the person thinks everyone else sees from their perepctive.

Bryan does not suggest he knows where things are now, but he suggests that things could get out of hand, and it seems he is probably correct about that possibility.

I have not posted about the male perspective for some time, but marital fidelity has to be managed in marriage. I have talked to other guys who have been getting close to my wife, and told them that I felt uncomfortable with the situation, and had asked my wife to back off. I have pointed out situations to my wife, and asked her to back off.

Shortly after I got married, my wife and I slowed down going to bars. Can you find something else to do? I could list a million ideas, have you tired anything else? What were the problems that arose?

I have been in tense situation in cars with my wife, and it is disconcerting.

When my wife expresses jealousy, I sometimes am able to be up beat about it. "Hey, I'm glad your jealous. That makes me feel loved. I have jealous feelings also. I'll try to be more careful, becuase I sure hope you are trying to be careful also."

Alcohol does not help fidelity. You are posting your one side here, "Look at how wrong my wife is." You are not asking, hey, how am I playing into this spiral? Are you drinking more than your wife? Can you stop drinking? What self-help programs could help you and your wife cut back the time at bars? I like the Silva Method, one weekend, for better habit control. I have personally done a lot of self-improvment courses, and I am constantly inventorying my skill levels for where I need improvement. I have a number of options that I can impliment quickly. You mention NONE.

Women have a maternal drive. If their maternal drive is not sufficiently fulfilled, then they act erratic until it gets fulfilled. Women are usually not conscious of that sequence, so the husband has to figure things out. You have not mentioned one word about your wife's maternal drives, or what you are doing to get them satisfied, or assessing how nearly satisfied they are. Do you have a dog? Cat? If you are going to bars, apparently you don't have any children. Have you taken any foster care parenting courses? Is she taking Folic acid so that if she gets pregnant you won't have a kid in a wheel chair? Alcohol during the first weeks of preganancy has an adverse effect on the development of the brain, and the ability to concentrate. It sounds like that if you found out she was pregnant today, that you have no hope of cutting back the alcohol for at least several months, if even then.

Marriage is about forgiving an occasional misstep or loss of temper. But it is also about reading between the lines, and taking steps to head things off at the pass.

I don't mean to say you absoultely need to stop going to bars, but what degree of Aikido belt do you have. Can you put drunks gently on the floor when they swing at you, and be ready for them to get up and swing again? My Aikdo skills are rusty, and I stay out of bars.

Pick your wife up after work and go house hunting, or play tennis, or horse back riding. Find some volunteer activity. Participate in a political campaign. Lobby for better laws for your favorite cause. Sell life insurance and annuities together in the evenings. Particpate in religous evening classes.

I just took my wife to a promotin party at work. No one else brought their wives. My wife enjoyed the orderves and cokes, and said a fri;endly hello to every one, and we left on the early side. But I was fairly well in control. Taking your wife to places where you have little control may not be your best coice in the interests of managing fidelity.

Post again with some more episodes, you don't get any place until you have 4 or 5 pages going.

Welcome aboard,

Quyipper
Married 28 years and still struggling

Thanks for the info. Just a little back ground. We have a child, my step-son, he is 10 and is with his father on the weekends. I have tried on several occasions to suggest other activities, but there is always a excuse on why she doesn't want to go. Movies, she'll fall asleep,etc... She says that she likes going to this bar because she enjoys to dance and its the only place around she can go(its a country bar)to do so. But her insecurity stems futher then that. If I am watching TV and a female comes on that she believes is better looking then her she gets mad. Or if I walk past the magazine isle in the store. I have been to self help courses and have recieved counseling. I have suggested it to her and she doesn't want to do that. As far as drinking I don't drink much at all I only go out maybe once a month and have 2-3 rum and cokes. She usually has 2-3 glasses of wine. But what disturbes me is she goes when Im at work( i work shift work) and if she is talking to her exes behind my back while I'm there what is she doing when Im not? I had made peice with one of them and we speak to each other when I see him. Because I knew it would make her happy and I'm tired of fighting. I just would like to fell I am getting the respect I feel I show her. Im not trying to place all the blame on her because I know it takes two. I just feel that I have been giving and giving but as soon as I want to do something or she fells threatened it turns into a fight. I dont know what else to do. On her side she was in an abusive relationship previously both physically and mentally, which makes me understand her reasoning for somethings but she wont get help for her problems that stem from it and I end up paying for it.I believe when there is a problem she reverts back to acting as she did in that relationship and feels I think the same as he did, because she has stated all men are alike. And its getting to the point where I cant take much more. I have not been physical or verbally abusive to her and I give in just to calm her because I know her past. But I feel it is not fair to me to be punished for someone elses bad deads.

Dear Hugh,

If your wife will not get therapy, then you can bring therapy to her. Home delivery. There are a number of therpeutic questions that therapists ask, and listen to the answers, and then ask other questions, that lead the patient to a better approach to their situation.

If you click on my name, at the side of the post, and click on View Recent Posts, near the top, and go to a post titled IT IS TIME TO PUT FEAR AWAY, Post 1, 8-30-03, click on that, you will see a discussion I had with DREDNOSILEMCE and THORNEDROSE, about options for treating a wife who was resisting therapy. My ideas were rejected by them, or at least they have not yet posted any different, and you should feel free to reject my ideas also.

Many people have problems with some aspects of Scientolgy. Scientology has 4 books of questions that therpists use to help others to better connect with the present, without illogical interference from the images of the past.

The books are around $75.00 a piece. You can just buy the books and have nothing further to do with Scientology, if you wish. Pay cash, and give no phone number or address. I have spent several thousand Dollars on books tapes and courses, and I have some understanding of what is offered, and I suggest the Expanded Grade reference Pack. If you show the books to most any counselor, he should be able to help select series of questions for you to help your wife.

Scientologist auditors take detailed notes as they ask the questions, and note down the answers verbatim. They also have an E-meter to know when they have triggered an emotinal response, and can repeat the question until they have a flat line, or no further emotional response.

I will point out that my wife sometimes acts in anger and disrespect. I ordinarily try to keep my anger in check, and deal with the issues logically. If that is not working, I try to give my wife space, in a way that she knows about beforehand. The books, INTIMATE ENEMY explain the importance of not adding to a downward spiral of negative comments, and planning out space-giving strategies that are within the comfort zone of the couple.

from: IT IS TIME TO PUT PEAR AWAY

You seem worried about the possibility of infidelity. If you do your homework, then you will have less to worry about. I suggest you put your energy into improving your listening skills, instead of worrying that your wife might not be telling you everything. What does the past mean to you?

For some $300, you can get the Scientology Grade Charts, 0 to 4. These are all the questions that you could spend $20,000 in courses learning to ask questions to help others improve their thinking and their lives. I own the books, and review them as ways to start and carry forward constructive conversations. Newer version is EXPANDED GRADE REFERENCE PACK, $230.00 and ASSISTS PROCESSES HANDBOOK, $82.50.

If your wife has her thinking up to optimal ethics and integrity, then the chances of infidelity are reduced. The Grade Chart Questions are designed to increase the clarity and ethics of a person's thinking processes.

There are many self-improvement books and courses available. If you are worried about your wife's infidelity, work on yourself, and work on being better able to help her think out ethical issues, and work on selling her your marriage, and work on making deposits for maximum credit in your account in her love bank.

Your wife must have made requests to you over the time that you have known her. Do you have a list of all the requests you have not fulfilled? That is a list to start on. Then try to guess other things that may get you increased credit.

END OF QUOTE

Reply again for more ideas.

Some other categories have more traffic, with more widely varried and more deeply opinionated posts. Emotional Needs and Just Found Out are two that are a little too intense for me, ordinarily.

You did not disclose your evaluation of your wife's maternal drive, and the percent it is fulfilled, and your options for increasing fulfillment. You don't need to post everything. Age is a factor. When a woman is 35 years old, she is tough to handle. She is at the end of her possible child bearing years, and ideas kick in.

Best wishes,

Quipper
Married 28 years and stil struggling.

Quipper - interesting info. My question for Hughesy is "What do YOU want out of this?" I've written my Pro's and Con's list of keeping my WS. I'm still struggling - as of this morning I thought it was all over...but now after a good RH talk with no LBs this afternoon (laying our cards out on the table), I've found the hope I wanted. Is she worth the fight? Do have the energy and the strength to do it all on your own and hopefully pull her up with you? I know my H's potential and where he can be when he chooses to go for it (and he's definitely worth the good fight!) - and I know I have it in me to live up to the potential he desires out of me....but I don't think we can do without helping each other. We can't fight against each other anymore to gain the thing we both want - Happiness. What's in her deck of cards? What does she want out of your marriage?

(Q - you're scarin' me...is it really getting to that 35 yr marker that makes us flip out? I thought I was just burned out after 12 yrs of just not living up to his expectations. My maternal instincts have always been a bit out of whack, anyway. H was ready for the kids 1st, I had them just to stop him from nagging me incessantly - and now I do the majority of the parenting. Sometimes with love, sometimes out of duty. Feel guilty for it at times, but I've got great kids despite their folks. And no - I'm looking forward to the day when I don't have to worry about any "oopsies"...as my 9 yr old "baby" gets older - starting over is more and more of a horrific thought!)

Dear Irwest,

What I meant was, that if a woman has only one child, or, particulary, no children, at 35 or 37 years old, there may be a feeling of urgency about having a child.

Since you have two children, you should be fine, but it is something to consider in the equation.

You seem to believe that you have yourself particpated in Love Busters, and that you could make things better, by finding better ways to partner.

I have two phrases for my wife, I recently developed. Please stop creating Chaos in the house. Please do better at partnering with me.

Your attitude to your H seems healthy, that he has potential, and you can work beter with him. Women have a wealth of favors with which to compromise. What are your plans for weaving in what you want with your favors? What can be expressly contingent? How can you imply other contingencies?

Best Wishes,

Quipper
Married 28 years and still struggling

<small>[ September 15, 2003, 07:38 AM: Message edited by: Quipper ]</small>

Quipper - you asked:

"What are your plans for weaving in what you want with your favors?"

Hadn't thought of that at all....hmm...All the errands and housework I do for him - taking care of the responsibilities with the kids.... Is that what you mean? The things that he like me to do for him?

"What can be expressly contingent? How can you imply other contingencies?"

I'm sorry - I'm a little dense. Can you give me an example of what you mean here? Are you saying that if H wants me to scratch his back then it's ok for me to say "I will, IF you will?" kind of thing?

<small>[ September 15, 2003, 08:27 PM: Message edited by: lrwest ]</small>

Dear Irwest,

You are scratching your husband's back. How is he scratching yours? What more scratching can you offer for which additional things you want?

Contingent is a technical word for, If You help me in this way, Then I'll help you in this other way.

I am not a real big fan of Radical Honesty, but I folow it in that I try to avoid doing anything that I would intend to cover up. That is an alarm bell for me, if I find myself considering doing something that I would intend to keep secret from my wife.

I have an appointment with my wife for tomorrow for dinner. I told her I had some issues. She replied that she has some issues herself. I suggested that I would listen to one of hers, then she listen to one of mine, and we would work on getting some of the issues discussed. Honesty is important from the standpoint of discussing wish lists and feelings.

Best wishes,

Quipper
Married 28 years and stil struggling

<small>[ September 16, 2003, 08:42 PM: Message edited by: Quipper ]</small>