I'm sitting here alone wondering how I got myself into this mess. How did it go this far without me noticing? How could I have been so blind ?<P>I'm curious if anyone out there can recall or define the moment that began to make an affair possible within your relationship ? For me I believe it began about 1 1/2 years ago. My W and I have been trying for a baby for about 3-4 years without success. About 1 1/2 years ago we started using doctors and getting tests. My W asked if we could go talk to a infertility counselor and I said " You go, I don't belive in those people. " <P>Wham!!!!! That was the begining right there. Over the next year in a half it just got worse and worse. Then 4 months ago when we had a miscarriage she wanted to grieve for our lost baby. I wouldn't let her. I kept pounding into her head that it was a positive thing that we even got pregnant at all. I was sad over the loss but I wanted to show her that this was positive. I know now that I should have grieved with her but I didn't. <P>I feel ashamed for my actions and that I am being punished somehow. I guess I'm just in a phase of feeling sorry for myself but thats how I feel. This loneliness, Will it ever go away? <P>Anyway, Just a thought I had if you feel like sharing...... <P>------------------<BR>Rutger......One day at a time.<P><BR>

Oh Rutger,<P>Quit beating yourself up. You did the best you knew at the time. Boy am I one to talk, I am still kicking myself in the @ss for not recognizing the signs. The only thing that matters at this point is what are we going to do today? We can not change yesterday an tommorrow is not here yet. You will do the best you can that I am sure of.

On one hand my H maintains that I did nothing to contribute to his affair, it was an inexcusable accident.<P>However, I am more than willing to be 50% accountable for vunerability. One factor was that we are the king and queen of non confrontation. H would try to tell me things that bothered him early in marriage (little things) and I would cry and be hurt, so he just stopped. I accepted H to just be H and didn't hold him to higher expectations of intimacy. I think we both put our "family unit" as the priority and didn't single out our marriage for a seperate relationship that needed nuturing. Still we had a good marriage and a fantastic family life.<P>So I think we learned from this, but I sure wish we would have learned these lessons without violating our marriage.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Rutger, I asked myself that question over and over again "How did things get that far without me noticing?" It seem so obvious now.<BR>For us it started about 4 years ago, when I got sick and panicked.Or maybe it started further ago, when we bought the house and our financial problems started. Probably the roots are there. having to get extra jobs, hardly any time together, being tired. Being parents ...Then I got sick and it got worse. The medication side effects brought weight gain, mood swings, lack of energy and less interest in sex. Not knowing when it would go away or if it would, not knowing what was cauding it, kept me scared all the time. many times I would be walking around in the halway trying to figure out if my throat was swelling up again and I needed to inject the adrenaline, or if it was just my imagination. Yhe deaths of my birthmother and less than one year later my adoptive father made it worse. I can see I was in a bad shape, but at that time I didn't realize anything. As FHL points out, being more parents than a couple happened without us even noticing.whatever time we had together was spent as a family, taking the kids here or there, instead of taking some time to also be H and W.I can now see that in the last 3 years we rarely talked - really talked - rarely made private time for ourselves, didn't really go out together just for fun... We probably noticed it, it's just that we didn't really pay attention to it.As I said before, If I look back I wonder... he was the one who had the affair, but I guess it could easyly have been me, emotional needs weren't being completely fulfilled in any side ( me or him ).<BR>Now, I'm just glad it's over. I will not make the same mistakes, and he tells me the same. We're making sure that we take time to talk, and to be together. We review the emotional needs, and what needs to be changed. If we only had the knwoledge we have now just before the affair... <BR>Kat

Thinking of you Rutger, things aren't going so good for me at the moment, so don't feel like talking, but you sound lonely - I know what that feels like, so hope tomorrow's a better day for you.

I just wanted to throw my hat in the ring and say, I don't remember a moment. I sit here wondering when I suddenly thought kissing another man was "ok". I had been lonely, but that wouldn't have done it. My love for my H was so strong! I was so completely engulfed in him and anything that would make him happy! And I LOVED it! He worked a lot, but that wouldn't do it. When he came home, he was distant (thinking of work) and would usually get on the computer or something, but I never really told him I was that lonely. He was always loving and appreciative, and I always tried to give him cards, letters, candles and lingerie and just about everything else I could do for a husband, so in most ways you might say our marriage was almost perfect.<P>I don't know what happened. I wish I did.<P>I know it will never happen again, though.<P>Just some input from a betrayer.<P>Thanks<P>Tracy<P>------------------<BR>"I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me."

Rutger, hang in there man, remember we are on the same boat and I will help you hang on because I may need you to hang on to me later. I too am lonely (espec when daughter is at moms). I agree with you about our actions, but I also agree about it being in the past and making ourselves the best husbands we now know we can be. My friend just told me, "Heal yourself, make yourself the best husband material, cuz if not for your wife for the next woman that will love you"<BR>Our defining moment? I think we just drifted apart the last 6-9 months, some of that parenting aspect took over our lives, and we did not work on marriage. I def was not meeting needs enough, but also we were not effectively telling each other what was going on with each others love banks.

Rutger - from me too. Hang in there. I've spent a lot of time trying to find the 'defining moment' and finally let that one go. I don't believe there was one for us. And I've decided I've been spending too much time trying to figure out what I did wrong, when He was the one that 'chose' to have an affair. <P>I was able to let that one go for this reason. Every month for the past 4 years, H and I would give each other letters. We started that tradition as a way to share things in our hearts that might be difficult to say in words. The agreement was this letter writing was a safe way to bring up topics that otherwise might not be discussed or be too fearful. <P>I've reread H's letters for the past two years. There's nothing in there about emotional needs not being met. When I didn't see it even there, I've finally (almost) been able to let go of trying to figure out 'the moment'.

Rutger -- I too have asked myself this question many many times. Unfortunately, I have not been able to come up with any one moment in time that I could say was the starting point. I may have to ask my W if she could answer this question.<P>Hang in there Rutger.<P>God Bless

DJ,FHL,KAT1,SOSAD,SAD4NOW,IZZY,RMINN,AND ES,<P>Man, With a support system like you guys how's a guy ever supposed to feel sorry for himself. You guys are all great and I really appreciate the support.<P>Your right, I can't beat myself up over this, what is done is done and I have learned from this. I am 50% responsible but I feel like I am the only one giving right now. I do know there will be better days ahead I just have to wait for them. I also know that I will end up a helevua' catch for some lucky lady at some point, I just still cling to the hope that it will be the lady already in my life.... My beautiful Wife. Perhaps these questions are those things best left unanswered.... Thanks again<P>------------------<BR>Rutger......One day at a time.<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by Rutger (edited August 29, 1999).]

Rutger,<P>Great question,<P>Now for the exact time and date that I feel ruined my relationship and opened the door to infidelity with my most beautiful W.<P>It was Thanksgiving, November 25, 1996, just after a most fulfilling meal at W parents house, approx time 18:34. SIL and BIL are in attendance. W asks "What is more important in your life, the business or the marriage". I reply "the business because it will always be there for me to enjoy". W asks BIL what do you think and he agrees with me. Boy, I would have never imagined that such an off the cuff question would loose the respect of the one I love and come back to haunt me. Must have had too much beer that day.<P>This is not just a theory, but my W has confirmed to me that WAS the fatal moment that ended the joy we once had. I killed myself to make the service what it is today. I worked long hours and put everything I had into it.<P>I regret to this day the choice that I picked. A stupid ambulance service over the one I truly cherished. I would give up the business in a minute to get back what I lost.<P>I should have spent that time with my W. The business is doing great but I have no one to share in the success. Well no one that I really care about the way I do with Valerie.<P>Wishing us all the best,<P>Medic