Bubba,

I read your BTW thing about everything pointing to a affair even though she said no. Just remember this, the Bible says we measure the other man's corn by our own half a bushell. I've finally learned that means, we decide what the other person is doing by how we would do something. In other words, the things that she is doing that would make you think she IS having an affair are probably what you would do if you were having an affair. That doesn't mean that's how she would go about it if she were having one - really.
When I first got married back in 2000, My H would come home to find a clean house, supper done, candles lit in our room and me in the shower waiting on him. Well he didn't take it the way it was meant, believe me. He never would come join me in the shower. None of the things I did told him anything was even thought about. He'd come in sit down and start reading his Bible and wait for me to get through. That was it. When I questioned him on it, he said his mother always told him "a lady likes her privacy" when she's in the bathroom. Boy was he way off base. I told him "invade my privacy - I like it". Of course by the time he finally decided it was okay to do that, enough other stuff had come up that it really didn't matter to me any more. You see how things can get really mixed up and running on that rollercoaster if you aren't careful? It hit me like a nuclear bomb. Sex was a really big deal to me, but to him it wasn't. After about a year and a hlf, I finally gave up on sex and lost my drive completely. I thought I was going insane. I thought there was something wrong with me and I'd never get it back. That floored me and I ended up having to go through counseling myself to hang on to myself. It had taken me until I was 30 yrs old to find it in the first place because I was molested by a family member from 4 to 13 and then raped two times after that. I didn't know what to do so I went to get help. Needless to say things didn't get better between us, I won't go into any details. But be careful how you take her actions, it's all still a part of what's going through your mind. I didn't think my H wanted me. I didn't feel like he thought I was woman enough for him to come get in the shower with and fool around with. My self esteem bottomed out and it took me until the first of this year to start getting my drive back. And just like the counselor told me, it hit when I least expected it. I was watching a young man go by with his son - well built and all of a sudden it just popped up out of nowhere. That shocked me. I was hoping things would get back to normal (my H was always sorry for the cuts he made on me for my drive and said he wished I was back the way I was when he married me - it never happened) and we could go from there. I tried. I tried everything I could think of to get my drive for him back but nothing worked.
I'm sorry I put so much of what's happened in my life on your post, but I thought that if you could see some of how this same "measuring" got others in trouble, it might help you avoid it in your life.
Do you have the book yet? Have you done any reading? Did you see anything in it that would help you in any way?
Check back later.

Becki

Becki,

I understand your point completely but the things that are leading me to believe that she is are these:

1. She does not appear to take our marriage and the problem as seriously as I do. I know people deal with things differently but she just does not want to deal with me at all on the issue, at least not right now. When asked, she actually has to think if she wants this marriage or not.

2. Unfortunately, I went thru the trouble of checking our cel phone bills and there's a couple of phone numbers that has stuck out since January of this year. Mostly 1 min calls but there is a 3, 2 2's, 16 and 34 minute call as well. 15 calls total. 22 if you count another # that this person can be reached at. Yes, I called and got a full name. There is also another # to yet another male called on 12/27 @ 10:05pm for 12 min, 12/28 @ 1:36pm for 1 min and 12/28 @ 9:15pm for 2 min. And, yes, I called that and got a first name for that number as well. I didn't recognize either of the names but I have an idea who it might be.

3. Finally, the main reason is because I'm in the dark and don't REALLY know what's going on. Again, she won't even give me that consideration.

To make things worse, she's supposed to be going to El Centro for work. I'm going to ask her to give me the name of the hotel and # "just in case something happens."

Similar to your case, my wife's sex drive was up there. I'm afraid that if things do work out, it will have gone down or be non-existent. As for now, kissing is just pecks and not even passionate. In the good ole days, she would be excited just from the peck. Now it's more like peck and off you go.

almost - Thanks for the encouragement. Since I am on a rollercoaster, I tend to go between the evidence above and what you've posted. The phone calls are what kills it for me though. I have no idea who that person is that she's calling.

<small>[ December 29, 2004, 01:04 PM: Message edited by: Bubba4Bebe ]</small>

That's a tough one Bubba. I really don't know what to say to that. I'd have to let it sit and cook a while before I could think of any way to handle it.
I need to dig my old books out again! But I do know that letting her know you're worried that she may have found someone else is the only honest thing to do, and that is what Dr. Harley always says you are supposed to do; be honest. If she does want to stay, it will work and if she doesn't then, as bad as it might hurt, you won't be in the dark anymore.
I gotta go for now, my new boss wants a dinner meeting in about one hour and I still have to get a bath.
Talk later!

Becki

Well here's more info.

That person may be a classmate. She's been in school and has group meetings with classmates. The majority of these calls occurred on the day that they usually meet. This is giving her the benefit of the doubt though because I'm not going to call the guy and ask him about it...at least not yet.

I have access to her school records and these dates correspond to her class dates. The only one that's odd is the 12/27/04 call. She is currently on vacation but a class does start up next week.

Another thing, the GPS locator that I've been tracking her with does not show her in any parts of town that she doesn't usually go to. Also, the fact that she is living with her parents means that she's pretty restricted as to how long she's out for.

The other OM I'm not sure of. That's the first time his # showed up in any of our bills so that's still a mystery.

Yes, I will approach her with my concerns the next time that we talk. Honesty is definitely the best policy.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Bubba4Bebe:
<strong> Well here's more info.

That person may be a classmate. She's been in school and has group meetings with classmates. The majority of these calls occurred on the day that they usually meet. This is giving her the benefit of the doubt though because I'm not going to call the guy and ask him about it...at least not yet.

I have access to her school records and these dates correspond to her class dates. The only one that's odd is the 12/27/04 call. She is currently on vacation but a class does start up next week.

Another thing, the GPS locator that I've been tracking her with does not show her in any parts of town that she doesn't usually go to. Also, the fact that she is living with her parents means that she's pretty restricted as to how long she's out for.

The other OM I'm not sure of. That's the first time his # showed up in any of our bills so that's still a mystery.

Yes, I will approach her with my concerns the next time that we talk. Honesty is definitely the best policy. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Honestly, If you don't listen to anything that I say... listen to this. STOP! I know that right now you may be so unsure of things that it seems okay to be staring at her cell phone bills and stuff... but, you aren't helping yourself! Most importantly, if you are using a GPS system to track her, it really seems off!!! In my opinion, you have no right to do that... if that was me, I would feel extremely violated and if you confronted me about it... it would be the definite end of the relationship!

Out of curiosity... have you been to school before??? I mean, really hard school???

If she is doing group meetings... there is a good chance that is exactly what she is busy with. I have done several years of schooling that took hours and hours of my time. I was also on the phone for several minutes with all kinds of classmates. As a group, we were tight-knit. We would call each other at all hours... and, that is all it was.

I think before you do anymore confronting or investigating... you should take a hard look at your marriage before this all started. Also, examine your actions at this point... no one wants to be tracked like an animal.

Well, i'm not sure if I did anything wrong or not. But here's what happened.

I got home and noticed that she was here. I called and left a message for her at work and on her cel phone to ask her. She calls back and she said that she was here. I couldn't hold back anymore. In a polite but firm tone, I ask her "What is going on here?" I told her that I didn't feel like I was a part of her life anymore. (I had previously asked her to let me know when she came by so I get all paranoid.) I asked what her situation was and what her plan was. She didn't respond. I continued letting her know my plight and the fact that I felt cheated that I didn't even get a chance to show her the "new and improved" me or even to get to talk about all our problems. Yes, we have yet to actually sit down together and discuss this whole thing. So I ask her, "What can I do to make it easier for you to make a decision?" There was a long pause. I forget what happened between when I asked her that question and her response. She said that she wanted me to do something for her if I loved her. I said, "I'll promise you that I'll do something for you if it is something that will save our marriage. If it doesn't save our marriage, you're still gonna tell me but I'm not promising to do it." She said, "Then you won't be able to do it." I asked her what it was. She said, "I want you to let me go." I asked what she meant by that. She said "Let me go." I asked if she meant divorce. Thru her tears she said, "Yes."

So there you have it.

D-Day: 12/29/04. What a way to end the year. I'm still numb.

She didn't exactly give me a reason but she said that I lost her and I lost myself as well. Basically, she's not in love anymore.

She's supposedly leaving for El Centro tomorrow for work. She's supposed to return on Sunday. She said that she'd talk to me then but I've already arranged with her parents to talk to her at their house tonite when she gets home.

In earnst, I've already taken 90% of her things out of the closet so that she can just load it all up and leave. I've probably added fuel to the fire but I'm in excruciating pain right now.

almost - Yes, I've been to school. It's the same school as she's going to and I got my BS degree in Information Technology in 2002.

Can someone please tell me if what I did was wrong? Did I force the issue? Did I not let her have enough space? I asked if she wanted to go to counseling and she said absolutely not.

<small>[ December 29, 2004, 07:00 PM: Message edited by: Bubba4Bebe ]</small>

So far, it sounds like you did everything you could. It is possible that you forced a decision from her too soon. It is also possible that she may have already known... you might never find out.

You know, I hope that maybe instead of you packing up her stuff... and, making any drastic changes right away that you leave her with that decision for a bit. If she made it on the spur of a moment, she might need it to sink in. But, it is also possible that she feels like there is no possibility of change.

I hope everything works out... all you can do now is just pray and leave it up to God... don't ask that she stays with you... don't ask that she leaves you... ask for his will for the best thing for both of you.

almost and Becki - Thanks for your support and comments thru ALL of this. This is probably a turning point in my life that I will never forget. What I will learn from all of this is not to be selfish in a marriage. There are 2 people there for a reason. You have to rely on each other at just about every turn in the road...including the forks.

There also has to be compromise and communication. Without those 2, there'll inevitably be problems. Love is the medium that gets the 2 people together. Compromise and communication is the glue that holds it together.

As for my religious views, just about all this time I had been asking God "Why?" I didn't say that I didn't deserve it but I did ask why is this happening as if he caused it. Well, I figured it out. I was looking at it all wrong. First of all, I figured that God puts us in this situation as a sort of test. To see if he has instilled in us, the wisdom that he's followed in his immortal life. Can we forgive? Can we overcome tremendous odds? Can we withstand the burden placed upon us? I've answered all of those with a resounding "YES".

Second, instead of asking "Why?", I should have been thanking him. Because of this experience I have become a better person regardless of the turnout.

That brings me to more news. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

After getting some feedback from my sisters, they said not to let her do what she did over the phone. As you mentioned almost, it may have been a spur of the moment thing or just her way of finally releasing. So, after I had my tirade and put her clothes in a neat pile on our bed, I called my MIL and asked if I could come over to speak to my wife. She obliged, especially since I also told her what had occurred. She was as much in awe as I was.

SO, at about 5pm, the wife called and asked if I was coming over. I said that I was and she said that she was home now and I could come over. I dropped everything and off I went.

I arrived and neglected to kiss her because I honestly no longer knew how to address her or greet her. So I passed her up, said hello to the SIL, niece-in-law, MIL and FIL. It was all very friendly as usual. We end up going into a chapel that her parents had added on to the house and talk. FINALLY!!

To make a long story short, we discussed everything. This time, instead of being long winded, I just sat there after I asked questions and waited for her to answer. I basically expressed my commitment and responsibility for all my actions and to the marriage should this whole thing come back to fruition. I was about as transparent as I could be with all my promises and acceptance for my actions showing. I did not blame her for one thing when she told me why she made the decision that she tentatively made.

Her reasons are very simple. Arguably the foundation of what a marriage should be. She felt that she was not my #1 priority in the marriage. How? She brought up a situation where I had asked her if she would rather see my parents happy or her happy. Now, in my defense, I didn't mean that the way it sounded but that's how it came out and that's how she interpreted it. So that's how she took it. I totally saw her point.

With things like that hanging around and the fact that she was afraid of getting back into this relationship because she couldn't trust my promises (What if I reverted back to making her a low priority?), the glass became as clear as the air we breathe. I finally understood what she was REALLY going thru.

I also confronted her about another person and she vehemently and continues to deny it. Now that I've been enlightened, there's no doubt in my mind that she's telling the absolute truth.

She leaves tomorrow for El Centro on official business. So official, she can't even tell me what hotel they're going to. I tried to ask for the hotel info. Sounds like an A, huh? Well, let's just say the entity she works for requires their employees to be very discreet.

She gets back on Sunday and we're going to talk some more and she'll hopefully be able to come up to some conclusion.

Overall, I'm finally at peace because I flipped over all my cards and she's holding the hand. Now, she just has to flip hers over and we'll see if we both have a royal flush. I know and she knows that mine is.

Stay tuned for a possible conclusion some time on Sunday.

PS - almost, you can be excited now!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> This is probably the best I've felt in a very long time! I think it's probably the best she's felt also. I want to also let you know that I am leaving it in God's hands and however this plays out is my destiny.

<small>[ December 29, 2004, 10:49 PM: Message edited by: Bubba4Bebe ]</small>

Romans 8:28

All things work together for good for those who love the lord, for those who are called according to his purpose.

This is one of those times I don't hate to say, " I told you so!".

Its always best to be honest - "transparent" -with your partner.

Becki

Good luck with everything! And, quit thinking that your dear wife is have an A. That is probably not true, she would have probably spilled it sometime yesterday. By thinking that she is, you are just setting yourself up to look bad.

Remember that God doesn't always test us. He sometimes just lets us do what we want! We use our own will to make decisions and then have to face the circumstances. Don't forget to pray for his will for each of you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Good luck with things...

Before I give anymore details. Can someone tell me when human dignity passes up love on the priority list?

Human dignity - I would think that when your dignity is given up that is a bad thing. If someone asked me to do something that would hurt my dignity I would not do it.

How 'bout if your wife just blatantly lies to you with no explanation? (Bear with me. I'll give details once I get a grip with this dilema.) Does the relationship/marriage/love still take priority over the effects of being lied to or does one's respect/dignity have a higher priority?

<small>[ December 31, 2004, 09:19 AM: Message edited by: Bubba4Bebe ]</small>

I am sick of being lied to -your wife needs to read total honesty -I printed it off and handed it to my H -he has had it for 2 weeks and just read it the other day. But I fear he is still not being honest and trying to cover up for the things he has done and I found out about him and OW. I have decided to tell her H this week -I am mailing him the e-mail letters. I will no longer enable to two of them. He may get angry but so what.

Okay, so here's what happened.

I found out my wife was out at a local restaurant instead of being in El Centro. I saw our suburban with my own 2 eyes. She was there with another man who she works with, I recognized him from the Xmas party, and another lady. I don't know who the lady was.

They all left together and the woman drove our car to her condo. I followed them in and stood by. They all came out of the car and went into the condo. After 30 minutes, the co-worker and my wife go back to our car and take off from the condo. They go back to the restaurant and she drops him off at his car. I couldn't see if there was any good bye kiss or anything but it seemed pretty quick. Prior to all this I made 2 phone calls to her and left vmails. The 2nd one was more of a concern because she should have been "off" by then but she wasn't picking up her phone. So I'm following her on the freeway after she dropped him off. As I follow her, I get a call. Guess who it is? I ask if everything's okay because it was after 10pm and she hadn't called me. She said everything was fine and that she was just busy. She said she had to drop some things off to an attorney. I asked if they work that late and she said that they did if something was cooking. So I ask how her hotel is. She said it was fine. I ask if she's still working or if she's done for the day. She says that she's done and she's getting ready to go to bed. REMEMBER, I'm following her the WHOLE time we have this discussion. I ask what time she works tomorrow, 12/31, and she says 8am. I ask her to call me once she gets up. It's 9:23am here and she has yet to call.

I follow her to her destination and it turns out to be her parents house. The co-worker is no where to be seen.

Still not sure if it's an affair but something is definitely not right.

It doesn't sound like an affair.

If you are concerned, you should confront her with what you know. She may be angry that you followed her, the decision is yours.

After 2 weeks of thinking about things, my wife has decided that she just can't continue with this marriage. She refuses any help from me, any type of professional or even God our father. I asked if she had a chance to talk to God and she said that she did and that he said that she should continue on this path of dissolving the marriage.

I met with her today to get the final word. I didn't let her get away without telling me while she looked in my eyes that she no longer wanted me in her life. She looked me in the eye and told it to me verbatim.

We are going to meet tonite to start talking about the details of the divorce.

I'm also thinking about confronting her about why she had to lie to me about this weekend.

Thanks again to all that supported me in my time of confusion. Unfortunately, the confusion continues but I think I've gotten past all my misery. All I can do is leave it all up to God. He will be the ultimate judge of her character. All I want is to understand what she was really doing and why this really all happened. She continues to deny that there is another person involved but it really is the only thing that makes sense. 1 year 4 months of marriage and she has built walls around herself so high that I am no longer allowed inside. When I talked to her I could see that there was still some love but she wasn't willing to fight for it. She was content with leaving the walls up to keep them out.

All I can say is that I gave all my energy in trying to save this marriage. All I can do is respect her decision and let her get on with her life and I with mine.

Thanks again,
Bubba

<small>[ January 02, 2005, 05:49 PM: Message edited by: Bubba6453 ]</small>

Through all this, remember something... you built the walls around the marriage... you were the one who wasn't there in the first place. After a certain point, there is no way that a woman can feel that you are up to changing it. If you are past this point, remember that it is understandable that she is excluding herself from something that she deems bad for herself. Carry that into your future relationships...

almost - After our talk that day, I was angry, upset and disappointed. Not exactly the right state of mind to be in when making decisions. I was ready to throw in the towel because I was tired and it was the easiest thing to do. The same day, I talked with my sister and her friend. Her friend that has just about run the gamut when it comes to marital/relationship problems. You name it, she's experienced. She is very involved in the "marriage saving" side of the church that she goes to. Anyway, after I talked to her, I realized that God is the answer. I need to find myself with God and God will take care of the rest.

I called my wife up and told her that I wasn't giving up. I told myself that I made a commitment just as she did. She can throw her hands up all she wants. There were 2 that agreed to the marriage and there has to be 2 that agree to the divorce. I'm not agreeing to it yet. I'm not because I know it's not her destiny and I know it's not mine. How do I know? I spoke to God and he told me. I can't explain how or even if he actually did or not. All I know is I feel about as good as I do when she was in my life now...that's with all her stuff completely out of the house. Don't get me wrong, I still have "moments" but I am learning to drive those away. The "moments" aren't a part of the plan.

I've broken down her walls once and, with the help of God this time, I'm going to break those walls down again and show her that she deserves all the love that she's ever dreamed of and then some. Since I was the one that built those walls, I know what they're made of so I can break them down. It'll take some time, I know, but I'm confident that I can do it.

Pray to God for me.

I'll keep you both in my thoughts!

Remember to pray for God's best will for both of your lives. Praying for your marriage to continue may not be the best thing for you both... and, that kind of prayer won't get answered. Just pray for his best thing in your life and in hers <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />