I have been reading the articles at Marriage Builders and am trying to figure out how to apply the principles to the difficulties I have encountered in my marriage. Any thoughtful suggestions would be appreciated.

My husband and I have been married for 11 years. Five years ago my husband had an affair with a local woman he met online. It tore him up inside and he eventually confessed and worked hard to make it all come right. (After plenty of look-you-in-the-eye-and-flat-out-lie behavior.) After that, though, I caught him in an obscene phone call with another woman he met online. For the next four years he cycled in and out of complete devotion to me contrasted with great anger, criticism, and more online chatting of a sexual nature. The past year has gone much better. To my knowledge, those unfaithful behaviors are gone (though I still can’t help panicking when he tells me he has an unusual work engagement during evening or weekend hours and I scrutinize every tone of his voice and bit of body language I can read). For the most part, however, I feel pretty secure in the idea that he is not actively looking for someone else.

The problem for me is that even though I don’t think much about the infidelity, when I lost my trust toward him (which I read you believe should not be there anyway) I stopped trusting him with ME. I do not put my heart in his hands anymore. I rarely tell him what I think and feel beyond daily occurrences (and even those selectively). This is because no matter what the issue is, he will usually find a way to tell me it is my fault. (Including chewing me out when I came home from my audition for the symphony and told him I had been nervous and not done as well as I would have liked. Apparently that nervousness offended him.) Even if I am trying very hard to express things nicely and in a non-threatening way, I find that I get punished emotionally and mentally for disagreeing with him. Life has become a guessing game of reading his mood and thoughts to know what he wants from me so that I can provide it and avoid angering him. He senses a fair bit of this, and tells me often that he wants open communication from me, but when I have been foolish enough to take him up on the offer I regret it tremendously. The source of my resentment toward him is the fact that I feel that he doesn’t truly love ME, but only his image of me in his mind. He wants to hear his words coming out of my mouth, but doesn’t want to hear them said in a way that makes him think that I am parroting him.

I find that extremely upsetting and it is a source of constant resentment and thorough hatred on my part. (Though my moods fluctuate with his and so we do have many comfortable times as well.) He is also very good at brining up past “dirt” in arguments, which I honestly do not think I do as a rule (and what with his infidelity and abuse, I have a lot I could choose from). I get beat over the head with every past mistake, but I have had to swallow all of his errors. That hurts a lot. He is very clingy (wants to be in the same room with me almost always) and very demanding sexually (I have learned to very, very rarely refuse him. It is simply not worth the angst.) which all makes me feel very aversive toward him, though I try very, very hard to acquiesce and accommodate graciously. I resent the fact that I have to be intimate with him every night unless I am as sick as a dog. He will also give me a couple of days off a month for my period.

The resentment I have toward him is so bad that my immediate reaction when he brings up even a minor thing these days is to immediately feel a stab in my heart and think, “I hate you.” I don’t even want to listen to him to find out if he really is right anymore. He always “has” to be right, so what does it matter? (I do listen, by the way, and try hard to work with him despite my feelings, but he does sense that something is a bit “off” and that slows down resolution.) Lately, though I have found my thoughts wandering more during his diatribes. It hardly seems worth listening to, but I know if I wander too much I will get caught, so I try to drag my thoughts back. My husband has never allowed us to leave a matter until he is satisfied it is settled. That has led to many late, late nights (during many of which he made me stand up so that I wouldn’t fall asleep on him, leading to the peculiar experience of falling asleep standing up). From all this (as well as a smattering of fairly mild physical abuse) I have learned to always agree with him, and to do so with all the swiftness and thoroughness I can muster. The problem is that I simply am not as convincing as I need to be. My tone of voice is not quite right, and he wants me to illustrate my understanding of the topic to him in a way that convinces him that I am not just agreeing to agree. It is, however, exceedingly difficult to argue the affirmative in a debate when you wholeheartedly embrace a negative counterplan. I have never been a convincing liar (though I imagine that my abilities in this area have been progressing by leaps and bounds) and so this both galls me and is only partially effective in getting me out of his doghouse. When I fail (which I often do) to think of a convincing illustration of my understanding of why he was right (once again) and I sit there dumbly with absolutely no words in my brain or mouth, he insists on my production of the illustration and I say, “I’m sorry. I really don’t know what else to say. You were right. I did…(fill in the blank)…and I am terribly sorry.” That, of course, does not satisfy him. He tells me so, and insists that I prove to him that that is the case. Of course I can’t do that. Even when I truly am sorry, there is no way I can imagine to prove that to someone else! It goes on until I muster an attempt at a convincing illustration for him.

In the article “Recovery After an Affair,” Dr. Harley wrote, “Besides, dishonesty does not prevent violence in marriage; it encourages it. If your honesty brings out violence in your husband, your dishonesty would enrage him even more, once he discovered that you've lied to him.” I think this is true, yet my husband’s violent reactions to my honesty toward him (about my thoughts, feelings, and opinions) have frightened me into dishonesty toward him. I have always known this is both wrong and stupid, yet I have also always known that the only other option is divorce or sheer day-to-day unrelenting misery. Therefore I have long ago decided on the path of least resistance, against the advice of some kind friends. Sheer day-to-day unrelenting misery somehow fails to appeal greatly, and I simply do not believe that divorce is right. I don’t believe that dishonesty is right either, but I would rather choose it than divorce. I do not stay with my husband because I love him; I stay because I am stubborn.

My husband follows the policy of radical honesty toward me, but will not allow me to follow it toward him. I know my honesty is my responsibility, not his, but he does not receive my honesty with the same willing openness with which I receive his. There is also no hint of a policy of joint agreement between us. I am often taken to task for not supporting and following his lead appropriately (though I honestly can rarely find fault with the things I have done in following him). On very rare occasions I have totally lost it and refused to obey something he asked of me. I’ve always had to recant on those occasions.

My husband is extremely talented and intelligent. He is considered the most valuable employee at his job; he is considered one of the most valued Sunday speakers at our assembly; his friends find him witty and affable. I find it peculiar that he is so universally highly valued, and I hate him so much. It makes me think I must be crazy and really wrong concerning him, but my heart tells me that is even crazier. I remember once my husband was leading a study and encouraging people to speak up. One disgruntled young man told my husband, “Once you’ve spoken, there’s nothing else to say.” I never knew if he thought that my husband had truly said all that was sayable on the topic, or if he just thought my husband acted that way. Either way, it seems true to me in my dealings with my husband. I never can hope to intellectually or scripturally refute what he has said to me; it always seems that he is on the right side of the issue. I find that disconcerting. I desperately desire to be in the right (not so that I can win arguments, but because I don’t want to be wrong from a moral or intellectual point of view).

Going along with this idea is the fact that I really believe my husband is pretty arrogant and believes he is right most of the time. He has plenty of ability, as I said, so he has reason to have a high opinion of himself, but this manifests itself in ugly ways. He has a terrible time being willing to learn from other people. Most Christian Bible studies and marriage books, etc. just don’t come up to snuff in his opinion. He is never willing to try to find value in them. He is strikingly idealistic, and I am unfortunately pragmatic. Of course the idealist always thinks the pragmatist wrong in an evil way. There is no such thing as accidental misdemeanors on my part. If I commit the negative sin of forgetting to do something he requested, it is treated on his part as me committing the positive sin of being deliberately thoughtless toward him. All my sins of omission become sins of commission. While this may be true in an absolute idealistic moral sense, I do not see how it can help our marriage to function if he transposes all of my offenses this way. But he is stubbornly, independently idealistic, and I do not think he will ever be willing to learn from any of the Marriage Builder materials. They, like me, are too pragmatic. The whole idea of compromise is repugnant to him. He views the entire field of counseling and psychology with contempt. He wouldn’t be caught dead on this site. If he read one of the Marriage Builder books, it would be to tell me what was wrong with it.

My husband is, of course, not always horrible. There is a lot of talent and fun there in his quirky person. He is
very moody and we will have a good month followed by two decent months, followed by two harrowing ones. Getting through the harrowing ones has always been the challenge. Lately, though, I’ve found myself so discouraged that the better times are only outwardly better for me. I simply do not find myself fully relaxing much around him anymore. Doing that is like taking a nap around a toddler who will, for no reason at all, jump on your stomach and knock the wind out of you with no warning.

I’m afraid this missive is wandering from my original purpose. I had intended my query to be, “How do
I avoid resenting and hating my husband?” I think perhaps that question is far too specific, but I will leave it to you to answer however and if you will.

Thank you for your time in reading this long letter. I would appreciate your thoughtful response. I don’t think I entirely fit into the Marriage Builders schema, since I consider divorce a non-option, and also believe that it is vital for me to be submissive to my husband. I do not seek any kind of independence from him, simply kindness, consideration, gentleness, and intellectual respect.

Believe me, you are not the only woman that finds themselves married to somebody who seems to be a paragon of virtue, but has feet of clay (to mix metaphors).


Hmmm, let's see.

"A smattering of physical abuse".

A heap of verbal and emotional abuse.

Complete and utter disregard for your feelings.

A total lack of respect for you as a person.

Invalidation of your feelings, and what you feel doesn't matter.

Multiple affairs

Moody.

Keeps you off balance.

Always has to be right.


I don't see why you're questioning why you hate and resent your husband. YOu don't have a relationship based on mutual respect and a mutual desire to see each other succeed in the relationship.

You're married to a person who's manipulative, controlling, probably a healthy dose (or unhealthy rather) dose of misogyny, and a hypocrit.

There is no foundation for trust, as evidenced by the affairs, the lack of honesty and the manipulation and emotional, verbal, and physical abuse.

Frankly, I suspect that your relationship needs far more than anybody here can help.

Before any progress can be made, the abuse has to stop. But your H has no reason to change, because he's getting exactly what he wants. Power and control. And people who are into power and domination and control do not give it up lightly.

The behavior your H is involved with is called crazymaking, and you even allude to it yourself. It's a desire to get you to decouple from reality, doubt yourself, and accept his version of events as "real".


I will relate a little about myself, so that you can understand teh context. I would be your H in the situation, a fairly apt description, although I never physically abused my W. Our marriage was miserable, I suspect she would describe it much like you did. One day, she finally said enough, and booted me out of the house. OVer the course of several months, I went through some deep personal changes, and ultimately, after several years of work, things are totally fabulous.

(I can send you a link with more details, I have several long posting on the topic, but the above hits the high points).

I tell you this, becuase I can put myself inyoru H's shoes and pretty much tell you what's going to happen.

Short of a radical development in courage on your part, I suspect nothign will change. There's no reason for it to. Your H has what he wants, basically complete control over you. Sure, there may be a few intervals where a small bit of remorse or guilty conscience sneaks in, and things get better, but at his core, he revels in his power over you. He can invade you sexually, he controls you physically, and he controls you mentally.

I'm guessing he probably manages the finances as well, controls how much you spend, probably keeps fairly close tabs on you even when you're not home.

There are 3 books I'd suggest you get, but you would have to do it on the side, and not let your H see them, or there would be hell to pay on your part.

The first one is a book called "The Courage to be yourself". I don't remember the author. She's a little wonky on her spirituality, but the rest of it is pretty much dead on.

The second is "The verbally abusive relationship, how to recognize it and respond" by Patricia Evans. It will give you some tools to help you save your sanity and at least give you a slight glimpse of the monumental task that lies in front of you.

The 3rd is "Christian Men who Hate Women", by Margaret Rinck. It deals with misogyny, and the description of your H seems to wander perilously close. Misogyny by definition is "Hatred of Women". It dicusses how misogynists use and misuse the Bible to "beat down" the spouses. How arguments have to be won by them each time, every time, etc etc ad nauseum.

I guess the question that's on my mind is, "Why in the world are you still there"? What possible motivation is there to continue tolerating this abuse?

I am not suggesting divorce, but you may want to think about the possibility of a separation, with clearly defined parameters on how the relationship can be brought back together.

In my opinion, for my own relationship, nothign short of what happened would've caused me to change. There was no reason for me to change, up until the Mrs. said Get out, I will not take this abuse anymore.

Even afterwards, it would've been easy to just file for divorce and walk out. And I thought about it. It was only providence that gave me the nudge to change myself and get the relationship healed. And it wasn't easy.

Very few people have what it takes. IN fact, if you read Evans, you'll find that even with the tools, most of the relationships ended up dissolving. The tools don't force the other person to change, they just protect you from them.

The fact that you stay with this man after the affairs and the physical abuse raises some serious red flags for me. I would be curious to understand more what it is that draws you to him.

The healing that the relationship needed to go through after the A's has never taken place. Heck, I suspect no healing in that relationship has ever taken place.

In short, to answer your question, I think your feelings of hatred and resentment are perfectly natural. And until the dynamics of your relationship change, your feelings will probably (and should) remain the same. After all, you're the one being taken advantage of. You're the person being abused. YOu have every right to be resentful of your abuser.

Jaye,

You ask why I stay with him and are curious what the draw is toward him despite our difficulties. As I said in my post:

...my husband’s violent reactions to my honesty toward him (about my thoughts, feelings, and opinions) have frightened me into dishonesty toward him. I have always known this is both wrong and stupid, yet I have also always known that the only other option is divorce or sheer day-to-day unrelenting misery. Therefore I have long ago decided on the path of least resistance, against the advice of some kind friends. Sheer day-to-day unrelenting misery somehow fails to appeal greatly, and I simply do not believe that divorce is right. I don’t believe that dishonesty is right either, but I would rather choose it than divorce. I do not stay with my husband because I love him; I stay because I am stubborn.

Besides that, we have 4 kids (10-3). Not to mention that my family already has a very peculiar, lazy recovering alcoholic to deal with which has just about driven my mother to distraction, and my husband's family consisted of just two kids, one of whom died last year much to the devistation of my in-laws.

My children adore their father. He is playful and fun with them (when he's not ignoring them to do his own thing). They were upset yesterday that he had gone on a short business trip (though I was delighted).

Also, he is intellectual and clever and I like that. He has an incredible amount of talent in many areas. I have never met his equal anywhere else. When we first got married (I was 19), I regretted it literally from the first day and I wondered, "Why does he hate me?" I couldn't think why, but I know I'm not perfect, so I began the process of accommodating myself to him. It wasn't long before I began to think, "No, maybe I just married the wrong man." So I began to look around to see who the "right man" would have been. I did this with trepidation, knowing that if I ever found him, I would have to then avoid him with all of my being. I couldn't help wondering, though. At any rate, I never did find the "right man" (thankfully!) and I have come to the conclusion that I could never replace my husband's talent, intelligence, and sense of humor. When he is "on" there is no better man. The "off" times have led me to believe that should I ever be rid of him through some means, I would never ever marry anyone again.

Besides, did I tell you before I think divorce is wrong?

Oh, and by the way, you guessed that he was controlling financially. Oddly enough, he is exceptionally generous and decidedly clueless about financial matters though he has a better head for numbers than I do (not that I'm bad at it, it's just that I hate doing all of it)and often I have wished he would take control there. Probably it is good that he gives me this bit of freedom. He will get upset if he asks about finances and I don't know the answer immediately, though. When I'm not keeping track (and often I'm not, though we're not suffering from it)that bothers him if he thinks of it, which fortunately, he rarely does.

Well, as I noted, I specifically said I was not suggesting divorce. I have seen men (myself included) get turned around, and go on to have successful marriages.

But remember too, that the example that your H sets in how he treats you, is the same way those kids will treat/expect to be treated in their relationships.

You have on obligation to them as well to not pass on the bad stuff. But I suspect your H's stranglehold over you will prevent you from seeing the harm that will befall them as well.

And when your boys are screaming at their wives, and your daughters are being tossed around by their H's, it will all be OK, because that's how Mom and Dad did it.

YOu appear to have developed in your mind an acceptable coping mechanism for your situation.

Kind of like for the sake of argument, let's say your H punched you in the face everymorning when he woke up. And then for a few days he didn't. I hear you defining that as "good times".

It's like you've set the bar as low as possible, instead of aiming high, you're happy to aim low.

Since you don't see it as wrong, and don't see it as anything that you can or should do anything about, I don't think there is any advice anybody can offer up that will accomplish anything.

THere is a distinct difference between being in a situation that's bad, and needing the strength and courage to change it, versus being in a situation that's bad, and just wanting help coping.

One MB can help with. The other, nobody can that I can think of.

I do wish you success in your journey tho. It should be challenging.

Jaye,

Don't get me wrong. I'm not satisfied to keep things this way, as you suggested. Why else would I be here, if I was happy with the situation and wanted it to continue? The thing is I feel like I am boxed in (partly through my own bad choices in not standing up for myself from day one) and I cannot see what other options there are. I was simply hoping for some thoughts on what possible ways I could take to encourage some change on his part. I don't think I am glorifying myself in any way when I say that I believe my problems with deception depend upon his problems of control. If he could take a view toward sincere interest in my perspective, my heart and my openness toward him would follow--absolutely, no doubt about it.

So tell me what on earth is going on in the mind of a controlling person? When that behavior characterized you, what were you aiming at, and how did you justify it to yourself? Also, did you just treat your wife that way, or did you deal with others that way too? I've wondered if controlling personalities also tend to be on the insecure side. What's your perspective?

The Evans book covers this in quite a bit of detail.

In essence, you and your H are functioning in two completely different realities. He's in what's called reality I, where manipulation, domination, control, use of force, rage, anger, intellectual domination, verbal gymnastics, etc, are used to get what he desires.

You're hopefully in what's called reality II, where the focus is relational, looking out for each others best interests, looking for mutual respect etc.

The key is, there is no overlap in these 2 realities. There is no common ground on which to have a conversation. There is *nothing* that reality 2 seems to offer the person in reality 1 that is superior to what they already have.

Yes, there is overlap in the sense of the weather, politics, food, etc. But there isn't any overlap when it comes to relational/emotional issues.

The reality 1 person uses manipulation, and it can take the form of "caring", and gentleness, and such, *when it suits their purpose*, and gets them what they want. But don't kid yourself, it is *never* about building the other person up. It is *never* about respecting the other person.

It is especially true when the persons ability to manipulate is as apparently well developed as your H's.

Your H may flat out be emotionally incapable of relating to you in a mutually respectful way that isn't just play acting.

The change has to come at that gut visceral level, where the person is in this absolute pit, and there is no way out except to change.

There's no way to use logic or reason, I suspect he can probably out-argue you on just about any topic you suggest that's relational oriented, and he has the big gun of just invalidating your feelings and telling you you shouldn't feel how you feel. And no amount of feeling it is going to make him change his mind, because he isn't going to accept as valid, because it's not how he functions. It's not how he relates.

Some of the questions you ask like "how did I justify it" and such, have no basis. Because to the reality 1 person, that's just how it is. I didn't look at how I mistreated my wife and say "Well, I know I'm mistreating her, but it's OK, because I can rationalize it in such and such a way". It was never perceived by me as mistreatment. It was just the way things were done. The strong survive, the weak serve the strong. If she wasn't tough enough, she deserved to get run over. That was her lot in life was to serve my every need. I was a great guy, she should just consider herself lucky that I tolerate her presence, and use her when I can.

So don't look for logic or rationality or anything form the person in reality 1. The two of you have completely different viewpoints as to what's acceptable, and no common frame of reference or common frame of morality.

As to the insecure part, you may be right. I certainly at the time didn't think of myself as insecure, but afterwards, with 20/20 hindsight, sure, I could see that. I was so afraid that nobody else was going to love me that I wasn't going to let the one person that did get away, even if I destroyed them in the process.

If you're thinking that well, if I just meet his needs, he'll open up or change, well, I'd peg the odd on that at about 8 zillion to 1. The more you give, the more he's just going to take.

It all goes back to: He has *no* reason to change. He has what he wants. You give him (perhaps unwillingly) everything he wants, you deny him nothing, he controls you in just about every way. WHat more can you offer him that all of a sudden this bolt of lightning is going to strike and he's gong to see the error of his ways, repent, and turn his life around completelY? Nothing. At least I can't think of anything. I lived it for 8+ years.

We had a child as well, I had a 1 year old baby daughter when my W told me to move out. And even tho it was a huge risk on her part, and took much courage and strength of conviction, it was worth it. And I'm just thankful she did.

Men are not given a manual on how to relate well o properly. (neither are women, but it seems the tendency is to be a tad more relational on the womans side, so they kind of hit the ground a couple strides ahead). We tend to stick with what we know. If emotional and verbal abuse and manipulation get us what we want, why mess with success.

I would encourage you to get the Evans book, although I would make sure your H doesn't see it. There is good material in there that can offer some solace.

IN the long run, I suspect you're gongi to have to get drastic. Separation or some action that shakes your H to his roots, to the very core of his being.

But there's still the issues of the infidelity hanging over both your heads, which hasn't been addressed in any productive way, there hasn't been any healing there, there's no trust that I can see, or at least no basis for it.

I don't want you to give up hope. Marriages can be saved. But I don't want you to kid yourself either. There's some deep seated problems. And it's not going to be a little tweak here, or a little tweak there, and everythign is going to be rosy.

Deep seated personality change is one of , if not the, most difficult type of change. It takes time, it takes willpower, it takes conviction.

Perhaps something you should consider is take some time, and write down some detailed descriptions of some of the incidents that you described originally, and then go see a psychiatrist and just have them take a look and see wha tthey think. If it really is NPD or a close variant, you have a herculean task ahead of you.

I don't say that to scare you, but you should get some idea if change is even possible. For NPD, well, short of divine intervention, I think the generally accepted answer is nope.

You can try establishing some reasonable personal boundaries, but you'd have to be willing to withstand the wrath of your H if you say no to him. Maybe enough reasonable boundaries will be enough to provoke some change, but I'd lean more towards it just provoking.

NPD? I'm not familiar with that acronym. Please translate! Thanks.

NPD == Narcissitic Personality Disorder.

You can google for it. Diagnosing it requires some experience and training, it's not for the lay person directly.

Well, Jaye,

I appreciate your insight into this whole mess. For what it's worth, I've added your perspective to my collection of thoughts on the matter. I opened a dialogue with a Christian friend/counselor who knows both my husband and me. I am very hopeful that we can get things straightened out. He is very willing to back me up and go to the mat for me if necessary. Thanks for your help!