My husband of 9 1/2 years (together 13 1/2 years) walked out on me and our two boys (ages 4 & 6) 7 weeks ago. I only had about a week's notice that something was dangerously wrong in our marriage. Since he has left he has "made the decision" that he doesn't want to return, ever. Only to see the boys, and with hopes that him and I can do this socially and still be civil. <p>Our marriage started the typical way: lots of love, spending time together, sharing activities, happy and healthy. Since the birth of our children we both agree that things have become routine. We all but stopped doing things "together", just the two of us. It was always "the family". <p>We also both have our faults (who doesn't). I feel mine have contributed to this matter more than his. As my husband states them: *****ing, nagging, controlling, just to name a few. I feel he is right to an extent, but I also thought (before reading Dr. Harleys, Give and Take), that it was the only way to get some of my emotional needs met. Needless to say I can see that it wasn't effective. "He didn't meet my needs, I'm not going to meet his", and so on. Things just snowballed and neither one of us saw it coming. Neither of us stopped the other to say, "Hey you're hurting me, this was not part of our wedding vow to each other". But instead, used Love Busters to show our emotion, and now my husband is in withdrawal, really bad.<p>My question is, can his love and trust for me be restored? He see's no other solution than being separated, and has even thought about divorce. He is concerned for our boys but feels they will "adjust". "This happens to lot's of families", is his response. He doesn't think he could ever return and be happy again and is at the point now that he doesn't even want to try.<p>BUT....he still shows signs of caring. I can call him anytime, day or night to talk. He told me to let him know if I needed help with something around the house (Ex: water freezing, heating problem, etc.) And I did call him for a hot water problem which he promptly responded too. He can/attempt to fix most anything. <p>He is not lazy to work or even take on side jobs. He will push that extra mile. But he does lack in converstion. Has always been the quiet, go with the flow kind of guy. <p>Does anyone have ANY suggestions, or input. Please HELP!!!!!!!!!<p>

Freida,<p>It's very possible that your husband may be having an affair. That probably wouldn't change my advice at all, but it's a distinct possibility.<p>I would suggest that you start counseling immediately for your marriage. If your husband will commit to this, great. Otherwise, do it yourself. I really like Steve Harley at MarriageBuiders: I think the material here is very effective.<p>If you've read Give and Take, you have an idea what you need to be doing. First, you need to eliminate your lovebusters to your husband. See if he'll fill out the lovebusters and emotional needs questionnaires, and go over them with you. Make a plan with him for you to eliminate those lovebusters. You need to develop a consistant track record with these new behaviors that you're learning. After you've successfully done this, you can start to work on meeting his emotional needs. Again, identify them, plan together, and then execute the plan.<p>It'd be nice if he'd do the same for you. And if he feels this separation is necessary, I'd suggest that you eliminate the lovebusters; and if successful, you move back in together to start on the emotional needs.<p>Plenty of kids go through this. And they "adjust". But it's usually unnecessary, needless trauma inflicted in their lives (and yours too); and it does leave profound and lasting effects. Your husband has essentially taught your boys, "when the going get's tough, quit".<p>I don't suggest that you tell him that (disrespectful judgement).<p>Find a counselor who can assess your situation and help you plan a recovery.

K - <p>I'm not trying to be negative here, but sometimes I read these posts/responses and think "how easy" you people make it sound. Counseling, filling out the lovebusters questionairres, etc. Typically its pretty easy for the one wanting this thing to work (me and in this case Freida). But the one who is the "leaver" to me is a different type person (example - my ex, when asked to go to counseling with me, he laughed in my face. Questionnaires would be tossed in the garbage and any reading to be done would be by me and he wouldn't pick up a thing). I didn't and couldn't get him to listen to me, a counselor, read papers. I couldn't get him to live with me to "try eliminating lovebusters" or anything else. He was too wrapped up in the "other woman", and his life. Isn't this typical of the "leaver"? It seems so hard to get them to do the things you recommend (although they are GREAT and I wished mine would have complied!). Even finding the counseling people need is hard, the one I had (actually 2) both recommended that I divorce him . I did. And as you know the story - its been a tough go of it for me and the kids and my new life. I don't know what advice of offer her myself (other than what you have advised above) - but what would she do if he is in the boat my ex was in? Not willing to do any of that? What you recommend is easy and the best way - but what is the hard way for the hard men to do these things? I would love to hear what people here advise those to do after all this has already been tried?

"you people"??? Yikes: I've been categorized!<p>For someone dealing with a spouse who doesn't want to try, it's a tough situation. It's very similar to dealing with an affair (which is what I dealt with). So, what do you do?<p>1. Work on your side of the marriage. Eliminate lovebusters, meet his emotional needs. The questionnaires may be silly, but if you explain to your spouse that you WANT to be doing your best to fill his needs, he might take it seriously. But if not, YOU do. <p>You need to be consistant. And patient. In this situation, I'd work very hard for 6-12 months at it. I'd use the "language" that Harley uses, as it categorizes your attempts at changing your behavior, and it might lead your spouse into getting on-board with the plan.<p>This is (in essence) the Plan A of Surviving an Affair.<p>2. When you've done #1 for long enough, and you feel yourself slipping back into old "lovebusting" habits (because of resentment), my suggestion would be a separation. That ought to get your spouse's attention. If it doesn't, and they don't care, then the marriage wasn't salvagable. I would suggest a "Plan B" type separation (no contact), with a length of 12-24 months. The end of plan B would be either you completely falling out of love with your spouse (and initiating divorce), your spouse divorcing you, or your spouse coming back willing to work on the marriage.<p>Cndy, although I'd consider my story a "MarriageBuilder" success, my wife hasn't willingly participated in many steps of the counseling. That hasn't helped the issue of our recovery, but it hasn't stopped me from effectively demonstrating the value of these principles to her and our marriage.

K - <br>Thanks - sometimes I think when people get as far as posting here - they are in desparate help and may have already tried the "logical" things - your second response would be for more intense situation - which I think a lot of people are in. <br>Sorry about the "you people" !! haha . I just see some responses from regulars! You always have good advice. I couldn't give any to her because I'd been in the boat it sounded like she was in and tried all the basics. Thats why I thought I'd ask someone to explore further!! Good answers from you!

edited<p>[This message has been edited by HollyAnn (edited July 07, 1999).]

HollyAnn<br>So very sorry that yet another person has had to suffer through marriage difficulties. It's not pretty and it's definitely not fun. Glad to hear that your husband didn't move out and that you are back on track again together.<p>Thank you for your much needed advice. I have James Dobson's book, "Love Must Be Tough" on order!!!!! It should be here within a week.<p>I am familiar with Dr. Harley's concepts. (Sure wish I had received these books as a wedding gift!!) I have read "Give & Take", and am currently reading "His Needs, Her Needs", but while reading the second book, it feels kind of useless unless my husband will "try". I have also read "Divorce Busting" by Michele Weiner-Davis. I recommend this to everyone too!!!<p>From my view, my husband cannot or does not comprehend the fact that he is not respecting our marriage vows or the commitment it involves. I'm not saying that he is stupid. Just very ignorant to it. I feel that he has just turned his back on our family and could care less if he ever returned. While he still sees his boys about 3-4 times a week, usually for 2-4 hours a visit, this seems to be satisfying enough for him. He says that he is "happy" now, but not all the time. He does miss his children. But as for me??? Guess not. <p>I have ended the pleading and begging. I have discovered that one of the most unattractive things that a hurting spouse can do is cry and blubber in front of the other. So needless to say I do this when I am alone.<p>I have also felt that my husband must have felt "trapped". (As stated in your 4th paragraph). Because when I asked him if he was truly happy now, he said yes, but not completely. Then I asked if he felt "relieved" to be away. And he responded that relieved and happy were kind of the same.<br>????????????????????????????????<br>Can you decifer that one?? Does that sound like confusion on his part?<p>When the two of us sat down with our boys this past week and discussed why Daddy couldn't live with us (because he doesn't love Mommy), he still could not say to them that he was "never" coming back. And when I asked him why. He said because no one knows what the future holds. True!!!!! BUT, then I spoke with him later, and agreed, no one can predict the future, but we can do things to shape it. So then I presented him with this: To make a mutual plan on how we can move slowly in a forward "get-our-family-back-together" sort of way. We both agreed that we did not get where we are overnight. And I feel that we cannot get it back overnight. Therefore, by mutually agreeing on some sort of plan, I feel it might help. This will be the topic of our next discussion on Saturday (3/6). And he does not sound at all enthused about it either. <p>When I started reading your response to me --THERE IS HOPE FOR YOU, PLEASE READ THIS!!!<br>It made me feel very good, I only hope it's true. Can a spouse that claims to have fallen out of love, or love loss really see that family and commitment are important? And that without these...life could be very lonly. My husband says that there is still some "love" there, I am the mother of his children. So, now what?? Does that mean I have "something" to build on??<p>As for an affair???? There is a female co-worker with whom he as talked to. She also has marital problems. He says that they are just friends. I have beat this subject to death to find out if it has become an affair. He tells me no. So I told him that if their friendship continued, it would become an affair. (And I had him read pages 14-16 in Harley's "His Needs/Her Needs"). I truly believe that. He says that he does not want another relationship right now. I also gave her a call at work and told her that if she was any kind of woman that she should back-off and let my husband make the life-impacting decisions that need to be made at this time. I feel she could become a problem for my husband and me, but he claims, no, That I am reading too much into this.<p>He has also seen a marriage counselor. BUT, apparently did not give the counselor the impression that he was there to save his marriage. It was more for the boys. He goes back again the end of this month.<p>I await my copy of the recommended book.<p>Thank you HollyAnn for your advice. Please post again soon!!<p>

I am in a similar situation. My husband of almost 5 years had an "emotional relationship" with another woman. I found out about it in January. When I suggested counseling he said it was a bunch of crap and he wouldn't go. I have read almost every book in the bookstore on marriage, conflict, etc. including all the ones here. When I use language from the books he gets angry and tells me not to talk to him like those books say becasue they are wrong. Right now I am raising his two children while he is out of town. His job takes him away 90% of the time. When he is home things are wonderful most of the time, but when he is gone it's like we don't exist. He calls me almost everyday but doesn't want to talk about the kids or what is happening here. He tells me all about what is happening where he is and I am interested and sympathetic to all of the probems he has. He never speaks to the kids while he is gone unless they happen to answer the phone and then all he says is Hi and asks for me. There is much more to this story - his ex, etc. But I am trying to answer a question and hope you can help.<br>I love my husband and his kids, but when is enough finally enough? When can you draw the line and say - okay time for a divorce? How do I make that decision? I go back and forth between staying and leaving a thousand times a day. Is there a list of questions I need to answer to determine? I have heard the Ann Landers are you better off with him or without him, but I don't know how to determine better off.<p>Right now I am terribly confused and feeling like an emotional basket case. I am looking for a counselor. But I'm not sure if counseling will help me decide what to do. I almost wish someone could show me the future so I knew which way to go. I am not thinking clearly at all right now and I am afraid of making the wrong choice. I know that if I leave he will not allow me to come back. <p>What should I do? And how can I hold it together and deal with my everyday life?

edited<p>[This message has been edited by HollyAnn (edited July 07, 1999).]

edited<p>[This message has been edited by HollyAnn (edited July 07, 1999).]

I've been following your letters and and I'm in the same situation. My husband moved out after we had a BIG blowup 1st of Feb. Last year he had left me for 2 months and when he came back it was so strained. We would have good days, then bad days. I just felt as if he was leaving again at any minute. He closed communication with me, and just went through the motions. We don't have children, he has 1 from a previous marriage that I love dearly. He spends summers and christmas with us. His son's mother is getting a divorce now, and I hate the thought of him coming in for Spring Break this month and finding his Father separated from me. He's 12 and I hurt for him so. H has indicated feelings for 1st wife before, so that is a concern for me, too. <p>My husband is using the last blowup (which was my fault) as his reason for the divorce. He says I never forgave him for the past indiscresions and have held them over his head. He is so verbally abusive when angry that several times I reacted badly. Usually after trying to keep things calm and not let his actions bother me. They build up, you know!<p>The problem is that I know not to beg and plead his return from all of your comments. But every day, every minute, I feel like I'm such a failure for not doing things differently the 1st time he returned. I know depression and guilt is a factor now, and I'm seeing a doctor and getting medication to try and help. I've never believed in those things, but I'm so scared and lonely.<br>I MISS HIM<br>He is staying at a friends and planning to move all his things out of our home next month and establish an apartment. He says that there are alot of things he loves about me, but he can't live with my unstableness. He has filed divorce papers, but he said it was so he could get his things. He wants to separate everything and then if we decide there is hope for us, then I have to sell my home and we would start in a new house with both our names. He said we could stop the proceedings after he gets moved out. Material things have been the formost arguements we have. I've just been scared to sell my house when he was threatening to leave all the time. But he said he won't live in my world. Truthfully, I was trying to get the house on market, but we kept backsliding in arguements, and every arguement H would throw up "marriage is over" or "there are things I can't live with about you". "Friends counsel also kept telling me not do sell house til our relationship was stable. <p>I ordered TDJakes "Help the devil is after my marriage" tapes. But my H said he is working on his problems now and doesn't want to work on us. He said there were things he brought into our marriage from his 2 previous ones and he is dealing with himself now. Says he is releaved to be away from me, and not have to wonder who he is coming home to - nice me or mad me. I haven't picked up the papers, and I do not want a divorce. I don't believe we couldn't build a happy marriage. <p>Please help me with what works and doesn't work when trying to negotiate H home. I gather pleading and begging is out. But what is ok? Can I initiate contact? Time is running out, and H is acting so self absorbed and making plans for his future without me. He is active in golf, riding, and work is demanding so he doesn't have to sit at home like me and worry. He also has a string of women after his affections, they pop up from time to time. He has always liked to be cented of attention and feeds on that.<p>I also make a good living, and used to be independent for years, but after we married I know i just changed everything about myself to accommodate his desires. Any Suggestions for a plan of action would be helpful. I ordered the JDobson book, but it won't be here in time. I need to know what it is I should be doing to keep from turning H to the big D. Please Help

edited<p>[This message has been edited by HollyAnn (edited July 07, 1999).]

edited<p>[This message has been edited by HollyAnn (edited July 07, 1999).]