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#60694 06/17/99 11:26 PM
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mads Offline OP
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I've been reading many posts here for the past few weeks and see so much of many of the same problems I have. It's been interesting having opinions by so many men as well as women. My H has always been controling. In our first years together when I wasn't employed I would have to show him the shopping receit in which he would go through things, item by item...sometimes even getting up and checking the price on the actual product to make sure it really cost that much. He'd question items and ask if I really needed them. With 3 small children, I always felt that I needed to do something to bring in some money so that I wouldn't have to account for every $1.00 bill. So I got a job working inside my house which was really part time to start and allowed me to take care of my children. Within a 5 year period, I no longer took any money from him. He threw me out of the checkbook and so I opened up my own acct. and then he would use that in arguements that I'm being secretive. Then the arguement was that I was home and he wouldn't recognize my income......he said I needed to grow up and get a real job like everyone else. So I took on a second job about 5 years ago, waitressing in a 4 star Inn, so making pretty good money and along with my current home job of 14 years, I put in around 50 hours a week with both jobs, about 15 is outside the house. Then the fight was I work all the time........and then the most damaging of all for me is my first child isn't his biological daughter. Her father was killed when she was a infant. My H has raised her since she was 2 years old and as she grew, he never really accepted her. She moved out as soon as she got out of HS. In dealing with our boys, we never see things the same way. I think he will do things just to make me feel inferior to any decisions made. When my sons were 12&14 years old, he said he was getting them a copy of Playboy for Christmas. I told him I thought that coming from a father at this age would send the wrong message. So on Christmas morning, he presented them both with a copy of Playboy in front of me and their sister. And basically, this has been the last 18 years of my life. He overrides any decisions I make concerning the boys. He has a definite attitude to womens work vs men's work and doesn't touch the house in any way. Won't cook for himself. Three months ago was the final straw when he told me to either sign a legal document stating that in the event he should die, that I will leave the house to only the boys and not my daughter. He said when I told him I have 3 children, not two, he said he then wants to settle with me now because as far as he's concerned it's his house, he pays the morgage, and he'll be damned if my daughter gets any part of it. He kicked me out of the bedroom and I've been in my studio ever since. Now he says that I have problems and he just goes to work and comes home and wants a peaceful existence, and he says he won't change so if I'm not happy just leave. And after re-reading this post , I'm thinking I'm a idiot for not leaving long before now! But, my boys keep me here and although they have thier own lives now as teenagers I keep thinking if I can just hang on 3 more years until they are both out of HS. My H won't consider marriage counseling, he counsels himself everynight with about 4-8 drinks of fine Pusser Rum. He really describes himself as a "old fashion guy who wears the pants in the family".....and feels I am a feminist trying to destruct all men in the country. So I guess my question is how to I stop feeling so bad? I don't respect him, nor do I trust him, but deep inside I feel such loneliness and like such a failure at this marriage.

#60695 06/18/99 11:30 AM
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Mads,<P>Wow. I am still reeling from your post. Your H sounds very controlling and abusive. I grew up in a VERY abusive and dysfunctional home and I know how it can affect you and your children. <P>I'm assuming he hasn't physically hurt you or your children, but he has definately emotionally hurt you. It's easy to say get a divorce, but that is not a decision someone else can make for you. <P>I think you should look into going to some therapy or counseling. If that is not an option, I would suggest trying to find a group to go to. Although it's difficult to admit, I think your H may have a drinking problem. I suggest going to Ala-non, a group for families of alchoholics. You cannot change your H, but you can help yourself. Even if you choose to remain with your H, a group such as Ala-non can help you learn to cope with your H's behavior without sacrificing yourself. You need support and understanding. I don't think you will get these things from your husband. <P>You are a strong person. I hope with all my heart that you find help whether through this site, in therapy, or in a group. <P>"Sometimes, I said, sometimes I hear my voice and it's been, HERE, Silent all these years." Tori Amos, Silent All These Years<P>"Oh these little earthquakes, here we go again...doesn't take much to rip us into pieces." Tori Amos, Little Earthquakes<P>Peace be with you,<P>Myra Ellen

#60696 06/19/99 06:25 AM
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mads Offline OP
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Myra: Thanks for your comments. Silent all these years is what I've been and from the beginning, I should of been speaking more as to what I would and would not put up with. I did not grow up in a abusive home. My parents were good parents and I'm from a large family , with 4 sisters and two brothers all born in a six year period, so we are all close together. Perhaps I didn't notice the control and abusive behaviors because I had not experienced any prior to that, but all the signs were there and should of been dealt with many years ago. I know that I do want a divorce, it's just my boys that concern me. They do so well in HS, one is high honors, the other honors, and involved with two sports each and I just don't want to change anything for them at this point. In my head, I feel waiting for 3 years to allow them the chance to get out of school and into college, somehow will be easier for them to accept.

#60697 07/07/99 04:48 PM
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MADS,<BR>I searched and found your post. My Gosh, I feel like such a whiner!<BR>I too have the ALCOHOL piece of the nightmare, not quite as bad as you but I feel for you. There were times in the first 15 years when I didn't work that life was a living hell. Not physically but mentally. I held my own I thought. I fought back, but in the process turned my home into a battleground. I'm sorry for that. I have always thought I did the best thing for my daughters (2, now grown age 24 & 18) but I see in them both now that my chooses were now so good. I should never have allowed the Alcohol to control my life and that of my children, nor should I have allowed myself to nearly destroy myself with a mind numbing rage against alcohol either. I made so many mistakes, but the point I'm trying to make here is, whether or not you end this agony now (either with the unthinkable Divorce or some changes that help rebuild you and your sons & daughter) The damage is already being done. The boys are seeing this. It sounds like your H is not real careful how he treats you in front of them and what on earth are they going to do when thier ready for this fun trip we call marriage!!! It sounds like you are pretty successful with your business and job and are trying to get out and do things. I wish you luck. Myself I'm completely out of my depth socially. I have lots of friends but very few times have I ever gone anywhere with them or done anything on my own. I guess you have the right idea though. I talked to my daughters about taking dancing lessons. You know that dancing, like ball room dancing SWING? Anyway I have always loved to watch others do it and have never had the nerve to try and learn to dance at all. I guess if I'm going to show my H that he can love the new me-then I have to show him and everybody else the truth I LIKE THE NEW ME!!!! I'm tired of that whiney weepy sad person that thinks her whole world is blowing up. Well shoot! Have you ever seen anyone smile during an atomic bomb blast? HA HA!<BR>Please take care of yourself and think about ALa-NON I'm going to call myself and see if I can go to counciling too. Maybe my girls will go too.<BR>Again take care<BR> MLC

#60698 07/07/99 05:56 PM
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Mads,<P>Short on time, or I'd give you a much longer replay. Your husband is controlling and abusive. You believe that you'll do the best thing by your boys by staying in this situation for another 3 years, but you may be wrong in that belief. <BR>First, by staying in the situation, you tacitly approve it and continue to model that as a "normal" family role, regardless of what you say.<BR>Second, if you're out of the conflict and negative situation which your husband presents (and seems unlikely from your description to ever change- his unacceptance of your first child REALLY makes me angry for your sake), you'll have more postive energy to devote to your children- as well as yourself. If you don't take care of yourself, who else will? He doesn't sound like someone who would consider counseling and he obviously lacks any concept of empathy for you whatsover. I'm very sad every time I hear about someone in a situation like yours, but since you understand what it is, it is up to you to change it. By all means, if you believe it helpful, try the books by Dr. Harley, and consider phone counseling at the least. You owe it to yourself. Good luck and God bless.<P>Regards,<P>Jon

#60699 07/08/99 12:40 AM
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Jon:<BR>I appreciate your comments. I know that what you wrote makes alot of sense. I have told my husband that I think that a seperation is what I would like at this point and of course he says he won't consider a seperation , only a divorce! I said fine then, lets talk about that.<BR> I suppose the thing that I think about is when I was a teenager, in the middle 70's, alot of freinds parents were starting to get divorced. My parents have always been together and there was no threat really of them divorcing, but I used to think about it and felt really scared as to what would our life be like if it was to happen. Coming from a large family of seven, we always thought that half of us would go with one and the other half with the other. We talked about it and the fear of ever having to choose. I've always felt that there is always ways to work things out and if you can't agree, you should be able to agree to disagree. I suppose that's part of having many sisters and brothers. Perhaps that is why I've allowed things to get as far as they have. <BR> Anyway, I do thank you for sharing your feelings. One question I have is I've been noticing on this forum that some people are junior members and some are just members......what is the difference?<BR> Respectfully,<BR>Mads

#60700 07/08/99 11:19 AM
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The forum software may be counting how many times or how long a person has posted. I visited the forum frequently about 9-12 months ago, but not as much recently.<P>I understand that there are many feelings, including experiences growing up, that give you concern and many fears about the affect of separation and divorce on children. No doubt a large family heightens those issues, because it is so much more difficult to deal with the basic logistic and economic aspects. I have been divorced about 9 years, and overall I don't really have any regrets about that, particularly as regards my daughter and my relationship with her. My parents did like a lot of couples from their generation, and stayed together as long as possible "for the sake of the kids". What did this mean to me? It meant that from the time I was nine years old I knew that my parents often argued bitterly, and had fundamental differences they were unable to resolve. (Now here's the interesting part- my father was an Episcopal Priest, chaplin in the Army, then civilian). Was there a "drill sergeant" mentality to my father's behavior towards me, my younger sister, and my mother? Definitely. Was there also a spoiled HMI attitude on my mother's part, who hadn't planned on having kids, and who got a bigger allowance from her mom than my father earned in his carerr? You bet. Was there a lot of energy used up between them and the church politics which dominated the family life, and left little for the kids? You can probably figure that out. They eventually split up in my junior year of high school; I didn't go with either one, but roomed with some friends from the church.<BR>In my case, I live next door to what was my daughter's elementary school; she attends the high school a few blocks away from my home, and is only a mile away from her mom's. The quality of attention she receives, and the support, whether she is with her mom or me, can in no way be compared with my childhood or my sister's- which for me, I consider to be a major achievement of my adult life. <BR>If both parents are committed to quality of life for their kids, I don't think divorce means an automatic bad situation for the kids. If either parent doesn't have a full commitment to this, that manifests itself whether the parents are together or not. I think you understand that all too well, unfortunately. <BR>So, my point, as you know, is if you aren't happy, your kids won't be as happy as they could be. If you are happy, you'll have more energy and spirit to give them. To me, that makes your ultimate choice clear, given your circumstances. If your husband was showing any signs of empathy and respect for you, I would advocate working on that to the limits of your endurance; but the picture you've painted in your posts doesn't offer much hope in that direction. Though you're not in the kind of situation where unfaithfulness or other similar cut and dried issues are an overwhelming deciding factor, I think you really do have to consider carefully, and honestly, what will be best for both you and your children in the coming years. In that I wish you the best of luck and courage, and a measure of the happiness in life which you deserve.<P>Regards,<P>Jon

#60701 07/08/99 06:58 PM
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Mads,<BR>Are you a night owl like me? I noticed the time you post. I stay up late too.<BR>I wish so much I had something to say that would help concerning your daughter. I feel so bad for her and you. It's very hard to feel you must stand between a child and the person who should love them but does not seem too. One question though, How do your boys feel about thier sister? Does his attitude affect thiers? (OOPS, Thats two questions!)<BR>I went back and read your posts again and that's not clear. The way you describe your daughter she sounds nice. You did a good job MOM! Kids are affected by the attitudes and actions of both parents. Hopefully you somehow counteracted your H's behavior. Maybe her withdrawal is best for her. I'm sure it hurts you though. We as Mom's want others to love our children. <BR>When you married him, did he pretend to accept your daughter? How can someone not accept a two year old? Your gorilla comment makes sence but it's not like she was old enough to have known anything accept him. She could have easily accepted him as Daddy.<BR>How you must hurt for her, I wish I had something to say that would help.<BR>Take care MLC

#60702 07/09/99 08:52 AM
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MLC:<BR> My daughter did accept my H as her father. She didn't know not to. I kept my maiden name though because she carried her dead fathers name, and I wouldn't consider changing her name to my husbands name. Now he never offered to adopt her legally and that was fine with me because I just wouldn't of taken her fathers name from her. So while she was young, I didn't want her to feel awkard with her name being different from her brothers name, so I kept my own as well. I always told her who she was, although my mother wanted me to wait and tell her later in life. As it turned out, I made the right choice because the differences started showing around age 6. My Husband said to me then that he didn't feel the same for her, but would try to not let it show. But he did, he didn't attend her sports events, or plays, or teacher conferences, but would show for the boys stuff. He would always talk to me in the house using "your daughter", but with people outside the house he'd refer to her as "our daughter". When she was around 14, I told my H that if he couldn't give her the father's love she should have, then I will make all the decisions concerning her with discipline and every thing else. He just would constantly critisize her about everything. She was a good honors student all through HS..and her relationship was very good with her youngest brother, but not as good with her other brother, but that is now changing for them both. I think that the relationship with the sibblings will be ok. I'm very close to my family and they have always seen that. <BR> During her senior year we fought over the fact that I helped her get a car and he didn't want her on "HIS" insurance. She always paid for the difference but this was a fight from the beginning. He didn't want me to throw a graduation party and that was a stupid fight for months. Of course I did throw a party. Now this attitude is all different for my son. My H pays the insurance plus bought him a $10.000. truck! Well, I can go on and on with the ways my H has favorerd our sons. The thing that concerns me is my daughter has never expressed hatred for my H, because she's too sweet and caring for me to do so, but she has expressed the hatred she feels to her Aunt. She has gotton involved with a much older man now and lives with him. The man is a nice enough guy, but is my age, and reminds me of my daughters real father. I feel that she doesn't realize it yet, but she is looking for that father's love that she so desperatly always wanted. Of course, her decisions of getting involved with this man was unacceptable to my H, and he won't allow this man to step into "HIS" house! So he hasn't been here and I go there to their place to see my daughter. I cry when I think of the future, when she marries and has children. How my H will never probably accept even the grandchildren. How he won't walk her down the aisle. But, she does have a wonderful Uncle, my brother in law is also my daughters real fathers brother. Her love and respect for her Uncle is solid and it will be her Uncle that will walk her down the aisle. I'm really rambling here for being the morning. I am a night person, your correct about that! <BR> The bottom line is that the respect I have lost for my Husband over the 18 years of marriage is forever lost. I don't see a way to change that feeling. He blames my daughter for the damages of the marriage, and he blames me. HE says I coddled her too much! Go figure? <BR> So I'm going to take on the advice I gave you. The exiting part of my day will be to put the new quitar strings on my guitar today that I got yesterday! I will go for a bike ride, play my guitar for a few hours while my sons express how my 70's music really sucks, while they are tapping the beat on the table or whistling in the background! And I'm going to try not to ramble again, because I know what it is that I need to do here. I hope you also have a wonderful day.<BR>Mads<P>

#60703 07/10/99 02:24 PM
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Mads,<BR>I don't have much time right now, I'm going to the dog races with some friends. It's a lot of fun and I sure I won't become a compulsive gambler. HA! HA! I bring only $20 dollars and pick dogs from bizarre reasons anyway it is fun. I'll write later about my trip to the lawyers office and seeing my H today. You have a nice day. MLC

#60704 07/18/99 06:48 AM
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Mads,<P>I'm concerned about how you are doing! I've not heard from you, so I suspect emailing me doesn't feel comfortable. But I invite you to...at lamblfr@epix.net. I am still praying for your situation. I've not kept up with all of your posts, sorry...but I still am concerned for you in your situation. You must feel quite depressed at times and hopeless. Been there done that.<P>Just know that I'm here if you want or need to talk. Living with an alcoholic is not easy. Have you considered Al-Anon for families of alcoholics. It might put you in touch with others who are struggling similarly. Also, often women's crisis hotlines often have legal resources they can tell you or even someone who can talk to you with a live voice. I wanted you to know that I'm praying for you. I responded to your post at my posting "Constant Criticism"..but didn't see a response. I bless you and pray you are well!<P>Ramy


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