I find that there is more Manipulating on my end of the deal and very little negotiating. Is this a healthy attitude to take.....I do find that I get to MY end result a lot faster.

You were the one person that posted a reply to my poem so I thought that I would take a look at your words. Lets say that yours is the only post in this forum that I have read thus far so I may repeat something or perhaps be lambasted for not understanding something critical in this forum but hey, what can they do? Take away my IP address? <P>I feel a connection with what I have read so far. Manipulating in a marriage is not good but it is often not a marriage problem as much as it is a personality trait. It would be evident in all relationships. In the context of marriage though, your husband knows that he is being manipulated and resents it. At the same time, he may be manipulating you in that he lets you get or take what you want but it costs dearly in the tenderness and love that you ultimately would like to achieve. Too often, my wife would manipulate through verbal assertiveness (code words for female-dog-ing) for hours until I was just emotionally exhausted and drained. Later, I was the one being blamed for not having a sex drive but how could I? The verbal assertiveness would almost always kill my self-image and confidence and I was just not feeling sexy. Like I said, I was exhausted all to often. Manipulation will almost always rip an ego to shreds in the long run. It is not likely that the ego could take showing tenderness to the person that just did that to them. <P>Why do you feel that you need to manipulate? I dearly wish my wife could ask herself that question. <P>Maybe I am completely off base here but hey, I have lots of IP addresses <grin>. I just wanted to say hi too...

Is it appropriate to comment on a response? I hope so. Here goes...<P>Stile - thanks for sharing your thoughts about verbal assertiveness. Never before has anyone hit the nail on the head and shown me what I do. I never understood why my husband would be so exhausted after a 'chat'. Now I see it - thanks for opening my eyes.<P>Best of luck to all of us!

Stile - ouch! Thats me too. I'm glad I'm finally getting that. Negotiating has never worked for us because my husband always gives up. I always blamed him for not working things out. Instead, it was me who needed to learn how to negotiate and not manipulate! Thanks for putting that into words. <p>[This message has been edited by Tam (edited November 13, 1999).]

Manipulation or Negotiation...either way, no matter what you label it, the end results and how you reach it can make or break your marriage. You must decide what results you seek. If you are searching only for what will satisfy you then perhaps manipulation is the way to go. However, if you seek a harmonious, loving relationship in your marriage then you both must commit to negotiating a win-win resolution. In the end neither of you should view the end results as a loss to him or herself. If that happens you both, as well as the marriage itself, will loose. There really is no win-loose answer that will sustain a healthy relationship. That is why the Policy of Joint Agreement (POJA) works. At first things may come to a slow down or a halt but, as soon as both parties start practicing honesty with themselves and each other, they will enthusiastically enter a negotiation process where they work towards a solution that will satisfy each others needs. It may seem slow and cumbersome at first but, believe me, the love that blossoms from such an arrangement is well worth all the trouble. There is nothing to compare with the sweet tenderness that grows in a relationship where the couple has fully embraced the Policy of Joint Agreement. Take the time to infuse your relationship with the POJA and reap its many rewards. Nothing, absolutely nothing, should be placed above your commitment to providing a loving, caring and satisfying environment for your relationship (marriage) to thrive and grow and there can be no tolerance for the selfish act of manipulation. It all depends upon what you want. You must make the decision for how you want to live and only you can take the responsibility for your actions. The enjoyment one experiences relishing in a goal attained through manipulation, while possibly seeming more expeditious, will never taste as sweet as slowly sipping a goal reached through shared negotiation.

-<p>[This message has been edited by MaryBB (edited June 26, 2000).]

MaryBB,<BR>You are definitely correct that I am newly exposed to this site and, what I consider wonderful, concepts. Therefore I wouldn't put much stock in my answers as I haven't had a lot of time to put them into practice. That said, I have read Dr. Harley's books and his reasoning is so beautifully logical that I can't see how, if followed correctly, his methods could lead to anything but a successfully happy marriage.<P>Interestingly you have posed just such an enigmatic dilemma as my wife recently mentioned in one of our many discussions about the POJA. I conceded to her that there certainly could arise situations, hypothetical or otherwise, that couldn't be answered with POJA. I think that POJA was developed to try and preclude as many of these situations from occurring as possible. However, when either it wasn't followed to begin with or, as is possible in your case, the situation changes after an action is undertaken, steps must be taken to reach a win-win solution. I think I would start by first correctly identifying and understanding each others position. Both of you should be able to correctly state the exact position of the other as well as your own. Then you both should try and see just how many solutions each of you could find. You will then have a list of workable solutions. Most will not be acceptable to both of you but hopefully the list will contain several solutions that can be considered a win-win result. You could then implement one of those.<P>You say that you feel unsafe in the automobile. Certainly your husband would not intentionally want to place you in what you would consider an unsafe situation if you could explain to him why you felt it was unsafe. If you fear that the car will cease to function and leave you stranded perhaps now is the time to negotiate for that cell phone you've thought about getting and couple that with a very good road hazard insurance policy that would provide you with instant coverage if you break down and need to call for roadside assistance. Also a permit to carry a concealed weapon, proper instruction and a .357 magnum can do wonders to ameliorate certain fears. A web search using your favorite engine (mamma.com is good) for the lemon laws in place in your state may provide the impetus for your husband to have the car replaced or repaired. These are just some samples of brainstorming for solutions that might work. Just remember to reread Dr Harley's rules on negotiating in marriage before you start; keep it safe, non-judgemental, and commit to each other that all that is desired is for both of you to end up feeling that the other had each others safety and well being at the top of their respective list.<P>In the end, if you can't reach an agreement, I would say that it would be necessary to remove the obstruction. In other words, if your husband can't convince you that he can make the car usuable to your satisfaction and provide you with what you consider safe and reliable transportation then that car has gotta go. He should agree to this in the beginning and you should give him the assurance that you won't be unreasonable in your requests.

Thanks so much for such a thoughtful reply.