Hello everyone. I feel I may be a bit different than the usual topic creator, but I really need some help and I couldn't find any where else to turn. Here is my problem though...I need help with an assignment which I received in my communications class. I am not married and this issue is very difficult for me to try and address on my own so I thought I could maybe get a little input from someone who has already had to experience this type of thing. My question is this... What can be said or done by one spouse to the other, verbally and nonverbally, to accomplish respecting privacy, "space," and individuality in a relationship. If you have any ideas on how this could be done, your input would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time.

I believe in the policy of total honesty, I don't think anything should be kept "private". As far as space goes, When you schedule your time then it's easier to give space at other times. A good reference would be the book by Stephen Covey <BR> 7 Habits of Highly Effective Families<BR>He talks of scheduling a date night, a family night, a kid night. If you don't have time that you know you are going to get, then you are scrambling for every free moment, which really leaves no space for either partner. Hope that helps some/<BR>

If by a relationship you mean a marriage then I believe that the realities of a marriage will not allow for what you may mean when you speak of privacy, space or individuality. In order to enter a marriage one must commit to the other that he/she will be there to satisfy all the basic needs of the other. I don't think that one can fall in love with a person who is intent upon building a life based upon their individualism, keeping parts of their life private or who needs their own space. However, if one is in a marriage and starts feeling the need for his/her own privacy, space or thinks he/she needs to express their individuality then perhaps they should look to see where their marriage is failing before it drops over the edge. Entering a marriage one should understand that they have committed themselves to the responsibility of caring for another person. This caring for another will not leave any room for going it alone, doing your own thing, having your own space, etc. and therefore one must necessarily put aside selfish activities that are directed at fulfulling his/her own desires at the expense of the other or the marriage and devote themselves to nurturing the marriage. My first marriage ended because I had a life separate from the woman I married and I didn't take the proper steps to insure that her needs were being fulfilled. My work constantly took me around the world, was full of intense excitement and rewarded me with an exceptional income. I almost allowed that to happen again but, as luck would have it, was introduced to Dr. Harley. Nothing I did in my own space, expressing my own individuality, amassing wealth or chasing the "good" life can compare to the "care" I now get in return for the "care" I give. There is nothing wrong with pursuing one's own individual interests and building one's own life but the "Lone Wolf" concept in marriage should go the way of the "Lone Wolf" concept as a fighter pilot. You won't last very long and neither will the marriage.

Noggin,<BR>I am beginning to think you are right -- but what is the solution once you are already in? I truly don't want a divorce, but I am definitely a "lone wolf". We both were at first but now hubby is changing his mind. I do not feel equipped to deal with this.

CC14:<BR>There are some wrongs that simply can't be righted, some errors that can't be fixed; some questions just have no "happy" answers, depending , of course, upon one's definition of "happiness". Our paltry vocabulary doesn't allow for us to delve too deeply into the ethereal (can God make a stone that he can't lift or write a riddle that he can't solve) so we are left to do with what we have at our disposal. On a daily basis we will face numerous decisions that must be confronted to allow life to progress. We tend to think of ourselves as fortunate that we have the freedom to make these decisions although there are many cases of a people relinquishing their freedoms for a promised ease of life, sustenance to be provided by a benevolent dictator or a compassionate government. Some come into a forced servitude through birth or capture (read POW). No decisions there unless it is to remain in the position in which we find ourselves. Now, to answer your question. Only you can make the decisions that will ultimately affect the outcome of your life and your marriage. You must decide if you wish to pursue a course of action that will provide a happy, healthy atmosphere for your marriage. Caregiving does not appear to be a stagnant concept. We all change with time and, therefore our caregiving must also change. As the saying goes, time will heal all wounds and wound all heels. What is an impulsive, driving force for a virile young man is totally different for a middle aged male. To wit - crass, old but appropo - an old bull and a young bull standing on a green hillside were overlooking a herd of finely shaped, contentedly grazing cows. The young bull bouncing in youthful vitality and uncontrolled exuberance screams to the old bull, "Let's run down and screw a cow." The old bull replies, "Hmmmm, let's walk down and screw'um all." (not a condonation of promiscuity) Things do change with the inevitable passage of time; we must adapt to the changes; we cannot depend upon an osmotic absorption to tell us what our partner feels or what is going on in the other's head; we must ask honest questions and listen to honest answers from each other.<BR>You say that you are happy but that your husband isn't. Did he state that to you are or you reading and defining without his input? If you sense that he is unhappy with something that you are doing (or not doing) perhaps this should be a topic of conversation for you to discuss during one of your private, inviolable times together. Are you spending at least 15 hours per week in tending to each others needs? Don't think that your husband does not appreciate what care you are giving, physical and otherwise. Your actions may to you seem as perfuntory an act as brushing your teeth or combing your hair but I can assure you that your husband will view them very, very differently. Talk, open and honestly, with each other. Let there be no doubt as to what each of you want and need and then take pleasure in providing that which you have already promised and which has been entrusted to your care. Are you truly happy? Is there something that your husband should be providing for you at which he may unknowingly be remiss? Could it be that you both could use more mutual mental stroking than a constant physical approach to fulfillment? Just a thought.

Noggin,<BR>We have definitely talked and he is definitely unhappy. He says he feels we simply co-exist. That is true. I thought that is what two lone wolves do. He admits that his needs have changed significantly in the three years we have been married. So, that leaves me with the overwhelming task of re-creating myself to meet his needs. Which I am in the process of attempting but, as they say, it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks. Affection does not come easy for me at all and my attempts seem very fake to him. He says he can almost see my mind ticking off the items -- kiss husband goodbye, hug husband hello -- okay let's tally this up and see if we have given him his quota of affection for the day.<BR>

CC14,<P>You appear to display the overly generalized problem usually associated with the male of the species - too little affection. You say that you and your husband have talked at length in re this and that you are attempting to change your spots to accomodate his changes. You are correct when you state that this can prove to be overwhelming. I would ask if you can restate his specific complaints back to him so that he agrees that you fully understand him? It is not really acceptable for you to have to shoulder the burden of change alone. The weighty task of realigning one's concepts of what constitutes a meaningful and fulfilling relationship and to then apply these "new" concepts should be borne equally by both parties to the relationship. I assume that you both are committed to keeping your marriage intact and you both have agreed that there is a definite need to explore a "new" and improved marriage. Can your husband state back to you what your needs are so that you are confident that he, too, is honestly pursuing changes that will keep "you" happy? Any caring that you provide for him should not be viewed by him as merely a perfuntory satisfaction of a perceived need. The fact that the task (need) is acknowledged and undertaken by you should be graciously accepted by him as an act of love on your part. After all, it is precisely because you love him that allows you to partake in providing for his needs. Let him know, in no uncertain terms, just what "you" need and verbalize to him that what you do for him is done out of love for him, not just a chore undertaken to avert bad feelings. There are many things we do for each other that doesn't necessarily provide a physical pleasure (or mental for that matter) beyond that pleasure we feel when we give, out of love, to the one we love.

Noggin,<BR>You know, because of your questions I may have hit on a whole new concept of what our problem is. I don't really think I have any emotional needs -- and therein may lie the problem. I mean, if we are going to live in the same house I expect financial support, domestic support, but I can do all that just fine on my own. We have always been more like very compatible roommates. We rarely even sleep in the same bed. I am an extremely light sleeper and he snores loudly, kicks and is basically "in motion" all night long. I have to read at least an hour before I can fall asleep and that bothers him. I guess you can see how flimsy the "relationship" is.

CC14,<BR>I think it's very sad that you feel like you have no needs, but I think you left out the one that sums them all up: Intimacy. This is the one thing that you cannot do for yourself, the one thing that you cannot acheive alone, because it has to involve someone else. I believe that every single person has a deep need for intimacy, and if you are not feeling it, it could be a symtpom of some kind of emotional trauma. I'm not trying to be some kind of alarmist here, it could be something simple, or something complicated, but there probably is something. Intimacy is the whole concept behind emotional needs, the needs are the road to achieving intimacy. Maybe somehow you've just protected yourself emotionally, so as to not be hurt or let down. Or maybe your feelings have become chronically numb because your needs went unmet for too long. I don't really know. But maybe it would help you too think about some of these possibilities, and maybe find a completely different one trhat explains your lack of desire for intimacy, which I think is what your H wants.

Hi CC14,<BR>Remember me, Spotlight? Well, those things that Zelhuflo say to you are pretty much the same things I stated to you before in another thread. I have worried for you, CC14, because I have seen you all over these forums asking the same question over and over again, seemingly looking for the right answer as to why you "don't feel anything". As I told you before, certainly you are a person capable of sensitivity, emotion and need, and it pains me to see you put yourself down for what you say you don't feel. I suggested to you before counseling, and you mentioned that in your community and because of your schedule it was nearly impossible. But I urge you to make it a priority because, despite the fact that you say you are fine with the way you are, it is obviously affecting your marriage, of which you are 1/2. And whether its a relationship with your husband, or friend, or parent, you will always be 1/2 of any relationship. Therefore, it will behoove you to understand where you are coming from so you can reap all the benefits of an intimate, mutually satisfying relationship! I really hope you find your answers!

Noggin,Spotlight & Z<BR>I read your replies late yesterday then thought about it all last night -- in fact, I have thought of little else.<BR>This all suddenly makes sense. In every relationship I have ever had -- all the way back to high school -- I only ever thought in terms of meeting the other person's needs, and I guess I thought not having any needs of my own was a wonderful bonus to the other person -- all they had to do is sit back and reap the wonderful benefits of being in a "relationship" with me.<BR>I am independent, I am strong and I am an expert survivor. I can do just about anything I set my mind to do. But for the first time I am at a loss, because I do not understand how to want something I do not feel that I want or to need something I just do not feel any need for ...<BR>Remember -- before batteries -- the wind-up toys? I remember that if you wound them too tight they would not work anymore. I feel like a broken toy.<BR>

Dear CC14,<BR>I read your post and I almost cried....<BR>So many people are broken inside! It just makes me so sad. So please accept my "cyber-hug", and let me just tell you that you can be fixed. There is hope!!! Such independence is just a symtom of deep wounds, or a big fear of intimacy. It has been your way to protect yourself, to never be vulnerable by involving your feelings in a relationship. You said that you thought that the fact that you had no needs was a bonus to the person you were invloved with, I guess you've already realized how wrong that is. I think that one of a persons greatest satisfactions in life comes from being needed. That's one reason why parenthood is so satisfying. It's the same in marriage. It's like we each complete each other. I really do hope you get some counseling, and you are able to enjoy the fullnes of loving someone, and feeling loved, to the point where you know that your life would not be the same if you lost him.

CC14,<BR>I just thought of a question for you. Do you ever cry or feel like crying while watching a movie or reading a book? Would you care to tell me what kind? I know it's a weird question, I hope you don't mind...

CC14,<BR>After reading your post dated 01 Dec I asked my wife to read it and the posts leading up to it. I needed her input to see if I was off track or not. Then I logged on again and read Zelhuflo's and Spotlight's posts and saw that they were at the same place I was. I am in full agreement with them that you have built a protective shield around yourself, possibly a reaction from a former hurt or to preclude further hurt in your present relationship. Please don't think of yourself as a broken toy. I see you more as an intensely pragmatic and intelligent individual who has experienced a hurt or pain in early life and took steps to not allow that to happen again. You are only human and you have made choices now and in the past that are not serving you well. However you do recognize this and you want to do something about it. Also you appear to have a loving husband who will support you and I truly think that you are a perfect candidate for professional intervention. Again, don't think of yourself as broken; you may be down and a little bruised but you definitely have the intelligence and, seemingly, the desire to get up, dust off and regain your enthusiaism for life. A few visits with a pro may just turn on the correct light to illuminate the path back to the happiness you seek. You must find out why you can't let your husband "care" for you in the fullest meaning of that word. I imagine that as soon as you can trust him with your heart and soul and allow him to care for you, he will be showered with the tender feelings that he needs and wants from you.

CC14,<P>I understand that Dr Harley offers a telephone counseling service. Since, by being here, you and, presumedly your husband, are already familiar with the presented concepts, would it not follow that here is where you might need to seek professional aid. Realize that even with the best of intentions, the ones who respond to you on this site generally are not trained, in the professional sense, to offer you in-depth counseling. They can give heartfelt advice and, at times, this may be all one needs. Certainly the caring support one receives from listening to another who has an empathy for his/her particular station in life is a definite reward but it cannot always suffice when what we may need proves to be of a more entrenched nature. The professionals have been formally armed with the weapons and tools necessary to help us uncover, identify, uproot and destroy the very activities and habits we may have unknowingly put in place to protect ourselves while, in actual practice, cause us to go wanting in a life that should be shared and filled with untold joy and tender, loving fulfillment. If you and your husband are not getting (and giving) from life what you think you need, if do not awaken in the morning craving the touch of your spouse, if your other half is not constantly in your thoughts causing you to pleasantly smile outwardly or to warmly laugh inside to yourself perhaps about a naughty little secret only you two share apart from the rest of the world or if you are not still glowing inside from yet another magic visit to your own secret trysting place that you share only with your loving spouse, then both of you might consider seeking the help of someone trained to help you discover and overcome the unintentionally placed barriers that limit you in reaching your full and deserved potential happiness. Do it for yourself and do it for each other...the rewards are limitless.<p>[This message has been edited by Noggin (edited December 04, 1999).]