This is kind of a complicated story - but I will try my best to make it it as short as possible while putting out all the information as best I can. <P>My husband and I married in 1996, I was 22 he was 26. Shortly after our marriage we moved to Germany with the military. We had a wonderful 2 years of marriage. They were not without the typical fights, but nothing major and no major problems. Around the begining of our 3rd year, I was becoming a bit unhappy. I wasn't sure what was causing the unhappiness and for the most part I kept it to myself. We weren't as intimate as we had once been, and I think I ignored that problem and he did as well. Several months later I finally told Dan that I was unhappy. He didn't respond very well, and he didn't seem to care much about it. Not purposely, I'm sure, but I think he thought that it wasn't that serious. Well, that frustrated me and I tried to deal with it on my own and see what it was that was causing the unhappiness. I was working part time and going to school at night. We did spend a lot of time together, but I think our communication and desire to please each other had dwindled a bit. We were still great friends, but the intimacy of marriage was not what it was in the begining. <P>In March of 99, I told him that I needed some time away and I wanted to go home for a while to figure out what was wrong and to try and see if it was the marriage, or something else that was causing this problem that I could not seem to solve. He was very upset and seemed shocked that I wanted to leave. We finally came to an agreement that I would go home and we would not pursue other people and we would figure out the problems. <P>After two weeks of my being home, he filed for divorce. I was devastated and didn't want a divorce at all. He was persistant about it and said that I "left him with nothing" and that he had no choice, this was what he wanted. He contined to write me and expressed his love for me and his desire to fix our problems and he wanted me still. This confused me very much. I am not good, at all, with expressing my feelings, so all of the love and desire to be with him, I never told him of. (This proved to be a HUGE mistake) He never knew how much I missed him and needed him. The papers were never signed by me, because I didn't want to divorce him, but I told him that it was because he needed to help me with the remaining debt we had accrued. This was dishonest on my part, but I found that I couldn't tell him what I was really feeling, so this was a way for me to put off the divorce as long as possible. We continued to keep in touch, and usually had really good talks and communication. <P>He got out of the army, around 1 Dec 99 and moved in with another woman, who is getting a divorce, or so he told me. About a week after he came home, I wrote him several times to finally share my feelings with him and tell him that I want to try again to fix our problems and get back the relationship that we once had. He finally responded about a week ago and we talked for a little while. He said that he had moved on and that he wanted the divorce. I told him that I threw out the divorce papers and he would have to have the lawyer send them. I said that I would sign them, regardless of the money, if that was what he really wanted. He has not, as far as I know, talked to the lawyer since.<P>We talked again after this initial converstion and he, out of no where, said "I don't know what's going to happen, let's just see how things go." I don't know what this means exactly. I have apoolgized profusely and done every thing I can think of to let him know that I have figured out what was making me happy, and it was not him or our relationship. I read the book Something More by Sandra Breathnach (I hope I spelled it right) and I have been doing a lot of soul searching since I have been back and away from him. I love him so much and I know he still loves me. The problem is - what more can I do? Do I have to just sit and wait? How can I show him I love him when he is living with another woman in another state and I am here? I wanted him to come and visit for a weekend to see how things go, but he wasn't very receptive to the idea. We are good friends still, and we can still talk about other things and I love it when we do. I just want another chance before it is too late. I know in my heart we can do it. I am trying hard to do little things for him to show him I care and that I am here for him. I think he has forced himself to move on and is afraid to get hurt again. I understand all of this and I am trying to be patient. I just don't know what to do. Do you think this marriage can be saved?<P>------------------<BR>Pammi

.<p>[This message has been edited by anthonyv (edited January 03, 2000).]

Dear Pammi<P>To answer your last question "Can this marriage be saved" Well the answer is a big YES. Of course you can save the marriage, if he didn't want to save it, he would not be talking to you. You say he is friendly. Thats how we all meet before we start dating, we are friends first. Don't stop there by only being friends be more, show him and TELL HIM what you want. Hiding your feeling only hurts YOU. There are so many people wanting divoces nowadays. When we make our vowes do we say "I will love you until I find something better, or until I don't feel like it anymore" No we marry for Better or for worse. <P>Find out for you what was making you unhappy, because what happened to you filtered to your spouse. There is a book I have recomended before, get it for him, but read it first yourself. Here is the link; <A HREF="http://www.randomhouse.com/catalog/display.cgi?isbn=0804106339" TARGET=_blank>http://www.randomhouse.com/catalog/display.cgi?isbn=0804106339</A> <P>There is still so much love in your relationship that needs to be mined as we do for oil. You may have to look in a number of areas, not only in him but also yourself. Most relationships part because there is no or very little communication amongst partners. Tell him what you want, what hurts you, what you want to give, what you want to share. And ASK him the same.<P>All the best, and you both need to STAY AWAY from the lawyers. They are no good. You will be in my prayers tonite. God bless.

Thank you so much, Anthonyv. Just knowing that someone else believes that this can be saved, helps me tremendously. I am trying to take each day as it comes. I have also been telling him how I feel through letters and e-mails, as we don't talk on the phone all that mush because of the long distance and the fact that he is living with somone. I am trying to be open and honest as much as I can without pushing him away from me. I will buy this book that you suggested and pass it on to him as well. <P>Thank you so much. Your words of encouragement help a lot! <P><P>------------------<BR>Pammi

Hello,<BR>I have problems of my own and am heading for separation b/c of alot of hurt from my husband. I ask this question b/c I know what I want from someone that has hurt me: After you truly fix yourself and your problems that have hurt alot of things, would you consider taking the chance to "appear" on his door step and beg for him to come back, sharing with him that you've fixed your problems. Do you think that even if he got mad and turned you away, that really deep down inside, he would come back eventually. Do you think that would mean that much? WOuld it to you if you were him? I hope that you would do it even if he never came back, for the sake of yourself and wanting to save your marriage. Hope you'll give it your all! Will be praying for you!

Pammi,<P>I am in a similar situation, but on the other end. My wife says she needs "time and space" to help her figure out what she needs. Right now, she doesn't believe that she wants our marriage. (We have a 2 year old child as well).<P>We are in counselling, but not for the same reasons. She is trying to figure out "who she is" and I am trying to save our marriage.<P>In additon, she is emotionally involved with a man that she recently met online and has been to see him twice. She even told me this weekend that she tinks she loves him and wants a divorce. Then, last night, she hugged me and said "she is really trying>"<P>I am VERY confused.<P>I still love her deeply and want this marriage. However, there is a feeling in the back of my mind that I may HAVE TO FILE for a divorce MYSELF, (even though it is not what I want), to find out where she really is.<P>I feel like she is leaving me no option. Let me explain:<BR>*she is still living in our house<BR>*she is still dependent on me financially<BR>*she is talking to this man RIGHT UNDER MY NOSE ON OUR PHONE<BR>*she is not giving any indication that she wants the marriage<P>I see it as having the best of both worlds.<P>I don't know if this helps you, but I hope so. Maybe you can give me some insight in to my situation.<P>Thanks<P>

Committed Man - <P>I hope that something I have to say will help you at least a little bit. I know what you are going through is hard, I put my husband through something similar and I didn't realize how hard it was on him until recently. <P>Anyway - I think that what your wife is going through is something very normal. Most woman also do not go to the extreme by actually leaving - they will usually find out that they are wrong before it gets that far. I hope that is the case with your wife. Try and understand that a woman is a very complex person, by nature. We have strange things going on in our heads and hearts. Most of the time we cannot explain what it is that is going on, especially when dealing with things like happiness and fulfillment. I don't know if I'm helping you or simply confusing you more. I just think it would be in your best interest if you waited on the divorce until you decide that it is truly what you want, don't do it for the wrong reasons, that is game playing and will probably cause more problems than anything else. I know it is probably very painful for you to sit back and see this all happening. Try and be patient. Remind your wife how much you love her and your son. If I were you I would also try and get your wife to focus on your son and understand what a seperation or divorce would do to him, that may encourage her to try harder to work through your problems together. I also think you should try and get this man out of her life - I don't know how exactly, that is a tough issue. But he will only cause problems and pull your wife further and further away from you, and you don't want that, I'm sure. <P>Try and hang in there. I'm sure she loves you, she is probably just confused with herself and lacking something in the marriage and trying to get it elsewhere. Keep showing her how much you love her and want your marriage to work. Also, try to be understanding when it comes to her feelings and what she is going through. That will make it easier on her and better for you both in the long run. <P>I hope I helped a little. I'm more than happy to try and help as much as I can. I know how important it is - I'm trying my hardest to save my marriage and I know it can be a living hell. Hang in there. You're not alone. <P>Good Luck!<P>------------------<BR>Pammi

Dear Pammi, moneypenny, Committed Man, and anyone else reading this. Believe this some of you are talking about your rights, well in a relationship you do not have rights. Let me explain. The surest way to have your right violated is to have rights. The only way that you can be wronged is to have rights, so what you should choose is to have desires. Become the person you want to attract. If you are angry your partner relects this, if you are nice and they are angry, they're going to wonder what going on and they will in turn be nice. <P>Remember the people who play the game of sacrifice and martyrdom inevitable end up resenting the people around them and no-one wins.<P>We all hurt, I still hurt, my marriage lasted 12months and a day. My W took off with another guy. I tried so hard until it was of no use. I had to throw my hands up in the air and say "It over". I went outside that night and at the top of my lungs yelled "NEXT" and moved on.<P>Exhaust every avenue before you throuw in the towel, cause being single is horrible, its not what its cracked up to be. Married people want to be single and single people want to be married. Marriage is the best thing that happened to all of us. Work at it, because if it all works out you become stronger as a couple rather than a statistic in a book.<P>My prayers are with you all.

Well, now after trying to keep up the communication with my husband, I see that he is not putting in any effort. After calling and leaving a message on his voice mail asking him to call because I needed to talk, I heard nothing for 5 days. I finally wrote him and told him that I can't continue to put forth the effort when I am getting no sign from him that he cares about me at all. He says he's sending the divorce papers. I am devastated. I think that deep down I knew it would happen, but I didn't want to admit it. When we do talk or when he does write, he always says something to me that makes me think that he isn't really sure that a divorce is what he wants. I don't know. I am completely lost and I feel like some other woman has just yanked my life out from under me. Can he really be in love with this woman? All the questions keep coming to me, but I have no answers. All I have is my memories and they are haunting me day and night. How do people ever come out of this alive?? <P>Off to bed now. Whoever reads this - thanks for listening. <P><P>------------------<BR>Pammi

Hi Pammi<P>I know you are hurting, I went through the same thing. It does get better over time. There are going to be many phases to which you will be going through, then eventually you will sit back and say to yourself "I did it"<P>The only thing you can do now is to make YOU happy and work on YOU. The best thing you can do for your relationship is to give him what he wants. I know its hard but if it is a divorce then that what you you will have to give him.<P>You need some space and friends more than than ever. Don't run and hide because it doesn't help. Only do this when you know you are strong. Get some councelling to help YOU through your grief.<P>I will pray for you tonight and may god give you the strength. Please come back to us, if it is a shoulder to cry on we will be there for you in your time of need.<P>Good luck and god bless.

Anthonyv,<BR>Hello, thanks for the encouragement, I really do appreciate it. Unfortunately, I am going through more crap right now. Yes, he said that he wants a divorce - period. BUT - he also has not had the divorce papers sent back to me. They have been done for some time, but he was supposed to contact the lawyer and tell him to send them to me. He has had over 3 weeks since I asked him to please let me go if he doesn't want me and to send the papers, but he hasn't done it yet. I don't know why. We are communicating a little bit over e-mail and it's mostly friendly chat and nothing more. I am also supposed to go to his Grandmother's house on Saturday to pick up our cat and bring her back here. He hasn't reminded me to take the little bit of stuff that I have of his there with me so that he can get it. I haven't mentioned it either, or the divorce, because that is not what I want. I don't know how to take this. Is he still unsure or is he just lazy? I don't know - and I can't figure it out. I would think that if he wants to move on and he wants me to do the same he would officially end this and let us get on with our lives. I told him I couldn't do that until I see the papers. I don't know what to think. <P>Any insight from a man's point of view??<P>Thanks for all your advice, hope things are going well with you.<P><P>------------------<BR>Pammi

Pammi,<P>Don't give up. That's what we all want to do when what we're going through gets tougher and tougher and there doesn't seem to be any end to the pain. I can't think of anything that's worth the type of pain your going through except trying to save a marriage. I believe that in the end, no matter what the outcome, you'll be glad you did everything you could to save it.<P>I'm currently going through the same situation as you. My wife and I are separated. She's trying to work through the reasons why she doesn't love me anymore. The separation happen about 6 months ago but the problems were going on for about two years before the separation. I've tried everything I could to express my love for her, but nothing seems to work. <P>I feel that she wants a divorce (she's interest in another man) but it seems like she doesn’t want to go through with it. She has him who is meeting all the emotional needs in her that I didn't meet. I can see now that I missed the boat on that one big time. She tells me I was a good husband but that our relationship left her empty. I believe her. <P>Under these circumstances, I can see that she's drawn to him for her emotional needs and to me because of the good parts of our relationship. She's in a tough spot. If she comes back, she'd have to leave the person who meets her emotional needs and believe that I've changed, and with this change, know that I could start meeting her emotional needs.<P>I think you need to keep doing what you’re doing for as long as you can. From what I've been reading, there are many success stories about people who hung in there and fought for their marriage. I believe that many people in our situation give up too soon and don't realize the possible success. <P>I encourage you to stay honest with him and yourself. Don't play any games with him. Don't be overbearing (this is a hard one for me to judge). Just love him (unconditionally).<P>JonathanR<BR><p>[This message has been edited by JonathanR (edited February 03, 2000).]

I'm in a similar situation. My wife has told me she is unhappy, that she feels our marriage is over and wants a seperation. She moved out of the home for a week, then moved back, with us in seperate bedrooms. We co-operate on daily life and looking after our 5 year old daughter, but she won't talk about what the issues are. I have convinced her to start seeing a marriage therapist to help us sort out the issues and save our marriage. She agreed to go but at the first session she just told me again the marriage is over, why she wants out (according to her, it's all my fault), and that she just wants to settle the issues of custody and property. I expected that she would not be too interested in working on saving the marriage, but at least we are talking. <P>I read a book called "Divorce Busting" by Michele Weiner-Davis. She advises that in a situatiuon like this, one spouse should not take on the role of "marriage saver" while the other talks of leaving. This just lets her off the hook, and furthermore, since she is angry and opposing me, anything I want, she automatically doesn't want. So, I'm trying to back off, let her sort out her feelings, while I decide what I want. I don't want to return to our old disfunctional relationship. I have to change and she has to change. Our next therapy session is today and I will tell her about some issues I have. <P>The Marriage Builders concept of leading a spouse from withdrawal back into conflict is very interesting. That is what I'm attempting to do, not to get into a fight with my wife, but to get her to assert her needs. At least then we will be engaged in a dialog which is better than being shut out.<P>This approach seems like it could be helpful to others here who are in similar situations. If your spouse is pushing to get out and find herself/himself, don't keep pressing her/him to stay. Give your spouse space and time, look after your own needs. When your spouse stops re-acting and starts to think and feel, free of your demands, he or she will probably consider re-negotiating your marriage again. when that happens, be open, understanding, loving and honest. But don't be spiteful. It might just work out all right.<P>Good luck,<BR>Kenneth<BR>