Right now- negotiating, to me would be even better than sex!!! How can I get to the point of negotiating w/ a husband who doesn't want to talk/touch/be with me? I would do anything to sit and talk rationally to him but he cannot admit fault or even hint at the possiblity that maybe he could do some things to make our relationship a little better. I am afraid to bring up the conversation (we aren't talking at all right now) because I know he will start belittling me and verbally abusing me and I will just feel crappy and probably start crying (out of anger) and we will land up worse than when we started off. I just don't know where to turn. I appreciate anything anyone can tell me about how to handle an insecure, pigheaded h or really doesn't care about anyone elses feelings. Do I sound angry??? I am....

keepontrying,<P>Well, you do sound angry, and after the weekend I had, I can certainly sympathize. My wife is also rather hesitant to admit that she has ever done anything negative in our relationship. The only advice I can offer is to refuse to let your husband's behavior make you act in a manner that will harm your marriage. I know that it is really hard, and I certainly don't do it all the time, but I know it is the right thing to do. <P>I just read something that really was a revelation for me. The spouse who controls sex has the most power in the relationship. This really makes sense, in that my wife is such a control freak. If she cannot control anything else, she will control the sex in our relationship. Also, when someone criticizes, they usually criticize those things that they see in themselves. <P>Anyway, hang in there and I will too!<P>May the Lord Bless you and Keep You,<BR>John

is it 2 late- thanks for your encouragement. Since he came home from the boy scout trip, we have not shared 1 word. not hello/goodbye/goodnight. My stomache turned when I heard the door open tonite. I would like to try to be the wife he would like/(blah blah blah) but to be honest, I feel I have lost so much self esteem by ALWAYS being "the one" to beg forgiveness, plead for him to discuss relationship problems etc. Between that and not working, I feel I have become very weak and needy. I don't think divorce would be an option for either of us but to be frank, living like this stinks too. At this point, I don't know how to even approach him for anything, important or unimportant. Appreciate your wisdom John. thank you.

Hi Keepontrying, I was searching through this site for posts related to almost exactly the same marriage you mentioned (except its mine), and found the most discussion of this in the women's bible study forum, especially in the last post by Alcholic's Wife. I saw a very eye-opening Oprah yesterday about Emotional and Verbal Abuse, and I really recognized my life!!!! Dr. Phil McGraw was on and said just what my father told me this week - it keeps happening to me because I let it. I'm still there taking it. Check out Oprah's website (Oprah.com) to read about it. It's very interesting. I ordered the book he mentions - Relationship Rescue, although I'm very, very close to not caring if it's rescued or not. I have just wanted for so long to be free of an angry, grumpy husband. I hope you will learn to stand firm (like I hope I've learned). Your pain really shined out of your post.

Dear Keepontryin,<BR> It was both encouraging to me and sad to read your posting. I have one question, are you sure he is being faithful? Are you living togther? Okay 2 questions. Your story sounds like mine awhile ago. If he is being faithful I am sure that if you look and listen you will see signs that he still cares, and that should give you hope. Read Dr. Harley's stuff about angry outbursts, control, and domestic violence. Also his stuff on the states of marriage: Intimacy, Conflict, and Withdrawl. I think they are in his book about love busters. That should help you understand a lot about what is happening. It did me. Neg. has to be a two way street also, and if he is in withdrawl there isn't any neg. to do. My husband does the same thing to me, and this web site and the books have helped me a lot.

Dear Keepontrying,<P>I am so sorry that things have not gotten better for you after his trip. <P>I would say don't try to "talk" about your marriage.(I have found this to be a hang up of mine for me.)<P>Back in Oct when "we" weren't speaking to eachother,I knew that I did want my marriage to work,this is so hard to do but it works,put on some music,dance,sing,do what ever is fun for you to put you in a better frame of mind. <P>When your H comes home greet him at the door,(oh....this is soooo hard.)say hello,maybe just touch his hand or his arm.(you might have to wait to do this after showing him that you are "happy",just kinda feel him out to see what kind of mood he is in.)Have dinner ready for him maybe a drink.(let me tell you in this situation I praise the lord that I do have children.....they make it so much easier to get involved in a conversation,this will invlove your H too. )I know that you have children so you can all have dinner together.<P>Always be in a good mood when your around him......trust me when I say this will throw him for a loop.(he will think what the heck does she have to be so happy about?)He will come to realize that you are happy to be with him. He will start to come around.<P>I can't remember the ages of all your children but get involved in any kind of out side activity.Playing w/the kids is the best way to smooth the transition into not being so angry.This will also help in "recreational comapionship".<P>We as a family,every Sat-Sun go up to our school and play roller-blade hockey.The kids so get tired and go play on the play-ground and we than play alone.This has helped us tremdously!!<P>When ever you feel down...come here and give a good cry.....when your H is not around.If at any time your H is home and you feel like you can't be "up" than go for a walk or to the store.(I just started to do this and it has helped.)<P>I had been thinking about you and I hope that this will help.<P>As Nowhereman has said tie some knots 1,2,3,and hold on. <P>

keepontrying:<P>We really sound like we are in the same situation. My hubby walked out 5 weeks ago. <P>Here is my advise. I'm doing the exact same thing I am going to suggest. <P>Don't expect an apology, or an admittal that he did anything wrong. If it happens, it won't be for a while. Instead, work to make him happy. You need to draw him out of his "Withdrawal" by adding love units. Get interested in what he enjoys, do little things to make him happy, if he asks you to do something... do it. Right now, you have to give up your feelings to make him happy, because right now he doesn't care a whole lot about how you feel. Don't talk about the problems, because you won't be able to fix them right now. Rebuild the love, then resolve the conflict. If he wants to vent, fine. But don't contribute. You can't change the past. You can only work on future things. And don't rush. That can lead to disaster.