This past weekend has been sheer hell. I'll try not to make this too long...I just wanted to get some of your input and advice since I figure some of you must have been where I am now.<P>Some background: My H had an internet affair (or as he puts it, friendship) that ended in February. He didn't tell me all the details when I caught him, but just a little bit of what had happened to make it sound believable. Of course I didn't believe him, and when I went to talk to the OW she led me to believe there had been more to it. Some of this was confirmed by my H (phone calls, pictures, etc) but NOT THAT HE HAD EVER FELT ANYTHING FOR HER. He never admitted to that, just said that she was a friend and they had mutually depended on each other to get through marital troubles etc. At that point he told me that SHE had had feelings for him, but that he had not felt the same and had always discouraged her.<P>I went to check this with the OW. She claimed it was true, that it was all on her side and my H had been honest and not led her on. She did however claim that my H was thinking about leaving me due to depression, but not about leaving me for HER. She said all they did was try to help each other, and that he couldn't tell me because it would hurt me.<P>I went back to check this with H. He said it was true that she was the one with the feelings, and he couldn't tell me that because I would have taken it the wrong way and thought there was more to it. Well by then, I thought there really was more to it and I didn't know who to believe.<P>Since then, we worked it out and I came to beleive his story - that he didn't love her but only needed someone to talk to because I was "unapproachable" or something. I had nearly accepted his story completely, and had not even brought up the issue in 2 months (no lovebusting) when suddenly, the other day, I get this information:<P>A friend of mine was speaking to the OW online, and she told my friend that in fact it was really my H who had had the feelings, and who had wanted to run off with her, and that SHE was the one who discouraged it. When my friend asked her why she told me something different she said it was because she "wanted to protect him" and save his marriage. She didn't think it was right to tell me the "truth" because it ended anyway and didn't matter -- or something!<P>Now I don't know what to believe. I've been grilling my H mercilessly all weekend and he won't crack, keeps sticking to the original story. We've both reached for the pills, gotten hysterical and made threatening moves towards the balcony. We haven't slept in nearly 72 hours or eaten anything. He's even said that he lied all those months just to get me to believe SOMETHING, then 2 minutes later gone back and said that he only said that because he thinks it's the only answer I wanted to her, and that he HAS been telling the truth all this time and why won't I believe him??<P>We can't even go to work, we're so messed up. We both had to call in sick today.<P>One minute I believe him and the next I don't. I can't understand why this OW would lie to me for months and say that it was really her, then tell this friend that she made it up to save his butt. Then when I believe her, I can't believe my H would let me fall apart like this when just admitting it would save my life. Then I think that he won't ever ever admit it no matter what, so I should just stop beating my head against the wall (literally!!!!!)<P>The next minute, I think he must be telling the truth just BECAUSE he cannot be the world's best liar and no one could be that mean just to save themselves.<P>I don't know what to think, i go from being rational one minute to a raving mess the next. And is this even IMPORTANT anyway???<P>I just want to trust him again, and know that this OW is lying for whatever sick reason of her own. HOW can I know for sure? I can't, can I??<P>Has anyone been there? Any advice? I'm going totally insane here and I plan to call my doctor for Xanax in an hour, if I don't feel any better. I'd rather be a drugged out mess than feel like this for one more second.<P>

You have one big mess on your hands. Eventually the truth will be important. Your H may not even know what is the truth because of the layers of lies.<P>OW is not trustworty, so you will not have definite answer today or tomorrow that you can trust.<P>If absolutely the worst is true, would you still be attempting a recovery? If so, then set it aside and figure it out later.<P>You both need to focus on making your marriage safe. Mentally see yourself on the same team with the goal of recovery. Right now you are on opposing teams with the OW as referee...and she doesn't know the rules!<P>Get some sleep. <P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Thank you FHL <P>I will think about what you said and get some sleep..thanks so much for responding

Just bringing this to the top in case anyone else has any advice??

One of the ways I handle all the lies--and the OW lied to me as well she "doesn't date married men". Ugh, okay, so they didn't go "out", at least for awhile. My H says he has lied. He says he isn't lying now. But when he was lying he was swearing it was the truth.<P>I don't plan on talking to the OW anymore. I don't need her in my life and she lies anyway.<P>With my H, on the surface, I believe what he says, check it with my gut and also check up on him. My gut was right on this last time he had resumed his affair. I'll trust it again.

If one or both of you are depressed, you will only see things through a black cloud. It is very hard to see anything positive in your life or a given situation when you are depressed. It might be wise to talk to your doctor about an anti-depressant. I, too, felt that it would be better to be "drugged" than to feel this way. But when my doctor put me on Prozac, I discovered that I didn't feel drugged, just a little more calm and clear thinking.<P>My H, too, had an internet affair for approximately 6 months, which ended with them meeting and having sex, my trust issues are regarding the 3 month separation resulting from my discovery and his refusal to cooperate with my suggestions for recovery. He has been reluctant to share details about what occurred during that period of time.<P>I know that eventually we will have to deal with these issues in a positive manner. Right now, I am working on me, I am still on Prozac, (realizing that I am prone to depression and the feelings of helplessness) I have been in counseling for about six months, and have to returned to school.<P>I don't know if this will help you any but my biggest suggestion would be NO MORE CONTACT WITH OW, by either of you. She is taking up too much time in your life. Focus more on making your H realize how important it is to be able to trust him and not so much on what the OW said or didn't say. If he feels safe in sharing his feelings, (which is what I am aiming for) and realizes that you will not be able to trust him until all the details are out in the open and you feel he is making an effort to earn your trust, then maybe you will be able to work through this.

Trish, thanks for your words of wisdom. You are right about focusing on our marriage and not the OW.<P>I will NEVER speak to her again, I have really learned my lesson this time.<P>The only thing is, I have been creating a safe environment for H to share his feelings and the truth, and he hasn't budged one inch from his story. I guess it must be true then, or he's the world's best liar.<P>I don't know, I guess I have to just let this go once and for all and accept that i will never know the truth.<P>Thanks again Trish

Hi C in NY -<P>I've been there before - so tired and exhausted mentally and emotionally from lovebusting that husband and I haven't gone to work. I like to think this is in the past. It is unhealthy, definitely for your own emotional well being, and for your marriage. <P>I like to think that this will never happen to us again. I like resolution to issues. So does he. He likes to have it his way, and quick. (Ha Ha). <P>But what I've learned - is what is the point of beating a dead horse? If you aren't getting anywhere, why keep up at the same grill? Like spinning tires in the mud. What is the point to keep hitting the gas?<P>So, first of all - resolve to quit that NONESENSE!!!! It is pointless. Put the unresolved issue on the shelf, just like you do a craft - take a little down at a time to deal with. It is manageable this way.<P>I like to sew - but sometimes I get so frustrated, and realize that if I put it away for a while, and do something else, I can come back to it with more clarity. Try this when you reach an impass with hubby.<P>On the issue of "is it worth it - to have the truth". Definitely the truth is important. It is a key to rebuilding trust. But, sometimes demanding it keeps us further from it. Creating an environment for truth is key. <P>I ask myself, if my standards are so high - that maybe my husband tells me what he thinks I want to hear - to please me. I wonder if this is why he isn't always truthful. I'm wondering if I didn't expect so much out of him if he'd be more honest. I'm also wondering, if he tries to treat me with the respect that he thinks I deserve - if even that means lying? <P>Hope you are feeling better tomorrow.<BR>

Thank you, everyone. I think I saw the light. Of course, remembering how the OW screamed and carried on when my H "gave her up" helped, but it was mostly your posts that gave me the insight I needed to pull up my socks! THANK YOU FROM THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART!! )

Cristalle:<P>For what it's worth, my wife lied to me about the extent of her affair. To get the truth, I sat her down and calmly told her that I loved her and would believe what she told me, but that if I found out later that she'd lied to me, there would be no going back -- I'd file for divorce and leave.<P>Then, I told her that she could stick with the story she told me or tell me the full truth. I wouldn't leave her if she told me everything NOW, but that if I found out later that she'd lied, that would be it.<P>I then let her tell me the full story. So far, I've heard NO reason to cause me to believe that she's lied or left anything out intentionally. I gave her the clean slate and laid it all out for her.<P>If I find later that she DID lie, and that there WAS more to it, I can guarantee you that I will do what I said I'd do. I'll leave her. But, for now, I don't have any reason to think she's withheld.<P>Perhaps this COULD work with your H. If he's as scared of losing you as Petunia was of losing ME, then he'll take the opportunity for a clean slate.<P>Good luck.<P>------------------<BR>/// Lone Star * ///<p>[This message has been edited by Lone Star (edited August 31, 1999).]

Hi Cristalle,<P>I am hearing my self on you.<P>Like you, I've been having my H denied all the things that I thought was happening. He had always been angry whenever I brought the OW's name up or asking him question about their friendship. I tried to believe him that their friendship was innocent. But I found it hard to believe that such an innocent friendship would make the girl ignore the existance of the fiance/wife of her male friend. I tried to put my self in her shoes and I realised that if I ever befriended with an engaged/married man I would like to get to know her partner and befriended with her too to avoid misunderstanding. This one did not. She kept on avoiding us as a couple. H had been trying to introduce us in person through lunches, once we even go to her house but she kept on dissappearing in the last minutes. I tried to write her an introductionary e-mail but her reply was very flat and said that she was very busy (for me and not for him - yeah yeah yeah I know that I was being cynical).<P>Eventually the truth came out from OW's best friend who apparently my Mother's client. She'd been telling her friend how broke her heart was that H is going to marry me anyway. Their ICQ chat-save also confirm this fact. It was obvious that she was only a fling to him (this fact also made me mad - like, oh God, I have married a jerk) and that she is having a major crush on him.<P>Anyway, I told my H that he shouldn't do things like that cuz it hurts me and I don't deserve it. From their saved messages I could tell that he did not have any serious feeling towards her. I made him write a good bye letter. Later on, I got so mad with her as well and let things get the better of me. I felt that I've tried to make things better for all of us, I offered her friendship and she objected it, so I sent her a nasty e-mail. I regretted this afterwards.<P>She replied my e-mail and she made lots of lies and exaggerating things. I believed her at the moment but I decided that she was lying now. She has a face to be saved. I had toppled her from her pedestal and she was fighting for her dignity. I wrote her another letter, apologizing my rude letters and told her that this accident had been a blessing in disguise for me and H cuz now we are closer to one another. I don't want her to know the damage she had contributed in our life. She is nothing to us. She does not deserve to know anything of our life. She replied once but I have never replied back. I have found this forum by that time and been lurking around a lot to realise that to re-build my marriage I should stop contacting her and dealing with the problems within us.<P>Anyway, I have always felt that I missed something. I knew some details (e.g where the OW works etc) and whenever I had to be in touch with anything related to her I went insane and moody. And this is lovebusting. I brought it to the forum. And someone here advised me to make a list of questions I would like to know and give it to H. He should answer it honestly and I will not brought it up again. This way I would save both of us from pain (H had already felt very guilty at the moment, before he did not realise that this kind of fling could bring such a major damage in our relationship) and also could determine the boundaries of OW's memory. And it works.<P>So one thing I could share with you, Cristalle, was that you shouldn't trust anything the OW said cuz now she is fighting to save her face. I believe that no woman would want to fell in love with a Married Man but when things happened they got very ashamed of them selves and need to do something to repair their confidence. I believed that somehow she was also a victim. Contacting her will do you no good and you'd better focus your self with your husband.<P>Well, that's my 2 cents, hope it'll help. <P>Saskia

Hi Cristalle,<BR>I have tried to add you to my ICQ but it won't auth. Anyway, my H had a 6 month cyber-affair that lasted 6 months, (until I caught him on-line with her) It was Mar 13, 1997 and we are just now beginning to get over all the hurt it caused. I now believe H did not really care for her he just let himself get sucked into the whole thing. He was on-line with her every night for hours. We took a 10 day vacation with no computers and I became suspicious that he had no sleeping problems while on vacation, (his reason for staying up late while with her). I talked to her afterwards and she lied of course. They had exchanged pictures and discussed distances to a central meeting place. I have been on an emotional roller-coaster ever since. Just in the last two weeks have we begun to heal. H has started to love me again. We were on our way to the end..............he just hid from any discussion or fix. He was arrogant and mean. He is really trying to fix us now. He said that he was surprised in my reaction to the whole thing.........I have always been strong and self-assured, (but now I'm old and so very tired) I just want to love and be loved and not have to compete with some b-------- on the net. I was so hurt that he chose dialogue and avatars over me. He told me he even asked himself if it would be enough if he destroyed our marriage. He obviously decided it would be because he didn't stop until I caught him! We talk now but I'm not sure why we seem to be on our way out of the black hole we were in but he is trying to give me what he calls THAT. Trust, honesty, affection, and time. It is very hard for him when I question..........which I find very hard not to do. The more I hurt the more I ask why. My hurt and especially tears seem to be a direct assault on him. It makes him angry if I cry so I try to cry alone. Until I can get clear of this dark hole I am pulling myself out on my own rope. The happier I am the happier he is. We have even discussed his "fat ugly cyber-friend" laughing about how she must look since she spends so much time on her computer. We have a life! <BR>Cristalle I hope you can get free of the hurt......I know how hard it is. I am better but I have spent the better part of 2 years in such agony and been able to think of little else. I hope it helps to know someone else has felt that same hopelessness and is beginning to come out of it. Take care and if you would like to chat on ICQ let me know.<BR>Hugs, Alley<P>------------------<BR>alleyoop<BR>

I saw a TV show once where a spouse was about to confess all the gory details of an affair when the other spouse interrupted and said...<P>"All I want to know is that it's really over and you love me."<P>End of story. Tears, they embrace. Music plays. Tampon commericial.<P>Okay, back to the real world. Is this a viable solution? Can we say this to each other in spite of all the past lies/truths/confusion, make an appointment for counseling, and try to give this puppy a rest?<P>Sounds like a less stressful alternative. Everyone is different, everyone has different pain thresholds. Is this possible for you or is it just not worth salvaging?<BR>One thing is for sure, it takes time to heal from trauma like this. Take baby steps. Good luck.<BR>

Hi everyone<P>I'm feeling quite a bit better today, I decided to let this thing go once and for all. I just wanted to respond individually to you.<P>trustntruth: You're so right. My problem is that I try to deal with everything head-on, at the moment it comes up, and it's just too much to digest. And yes, my standards might be too high and I may have been too "scary" in the past to tell the truth to, but I am not now. I tried to create a nice safe environment so he would trust me enough to tell me everything, and he says he has. I guess it's just me who can't believe him, because he has lied so much in the past. It's like the boy who cried wolf, you know? <P>But I liked what you said about treating it like a craft, and putting it on the shelf. I will do that now. Thank you, trustntruth <P>Lone Star: You know what? I tried that. I tried that at the beginning, and he still lied. He figured I would never know more than he gave me since the woman was on the Internet. He also figured my pride would keep me from going to her. So he lied, even though I told him to come clean and I would forgive it. We're talking about a major conflict avoider here.<P>I tried this tack over and over, along with about 20 other ones, none of them worked. He just insisted that he was telling the truth all along. I suppose I'll have to assume he is and that the OW is lying for whatever sick reasons of her own. In any case, dwelling on whether I know every sick detail or not isn't getting me anywhere. Thanks Lone Star <P>Saskia, it is amazing how similar our stories are. I marvel at how far along you are in the process, and admire your stamina and focused-ness. I tried that writing down the questions thing right after I caught him, and he lied. Or he wrote that he didn't know, or that he didn't remember. I suppose I will never know for sure, but I want to believe his less-awful story rather than that of the OW, who you say lies for reasons of her own and with that I agree. She felt jilted by him when he "abandoned" her and I suppose, tried to get revenge by ruining our lives. <P>Thanks Saskia, I will take your advice too and focus on our marriage and not this woman.<P>alleyoop: I'm so sorry to hear this has taken so long, and fear that it will take me a couple of years too. Let's talk on ICQ, shall we? I tried adding you again.<P>Cuckold: Yes, I will put this puppy to rest. It is killing us, and this past weekend put us back to square one in terms of lovebusting. I won't be making this mistake again, if I feel like hell I'll keep it to myself and not involve him<P>Thanks everyone, I don't know what I would do without the insight and compassion I find here.

Hi Cristalle,<BR>I read my post and I need to correct something in it. It was March of 1998 it just seems a year longer than that. We would seem to be getting over the hump and then we would fall down the hole again. I know I did a lot of love busting but I was so angry and disillusioned with my life. I had thought it was one way when actually it wasn't. I felt so stupid. I felt humiliated that he would choose HER over me. To pacify me he said it wasn't her it could have been anyone. Gee hon that sure makes me feel better. On the one hand I was sure he wasn't "in love" with anyone else, but he sure didn't seem to love me either. I think I could have handled the whole thing if not for his attitude. He seemed to hate me almost. He just seemed to wish that I would evaporate. He told me that sex with me was work. He said that he couldn't give me what he gave her. He said that I should take care of myself. He seems remorseful for all those things now if I talk in a disinterested manner. It has not been easy but he has told me he is glad I didn't give up. I wanted to lots of times. I just wanted my life back and that seemed an impossibility. I don't trust him but he says he understands. I have given up all the anger. If I start to feel it I excuse myself and leave the room. He knows I think it was unfair of him to light the fuse on a stick of dynamite and toss it into our lives. He expects that I will clean up all the distruction while he waits in his own world. I am trying to remember that he carries the guilt for the distruction........I am strong and will survive! ( I hope.) Stay strong Cristalle, and remember to love yourself.<BR>Hugs, Alley<P>------------------<BR>alleyoop<BR>